Am I out of order?

[GreeneKing]

It's no secret that I find our lead guitarist and singer difficult to work with. It's not just me, we all do.

During band practices he'll often say ' can I just do the solo'. I dread it because I find it difficult to work out where the bass comes in mid song.

Eventually I thought to myself, I learn the bassline and then I bring it to band practice, I wouldn't dream of using band practice to learn it as I feel that's down to me.

So I hinted in a band email that we should learn the solo's 1st and not use everyone else's time to do it.

Tonight, as per usual he says 'can I just do the solo again?'.

Well we do it and I say 'Dave perhaps we should work on that stuff by ourselves and not waste the band's time.

OMG was he pissed.

What do you think? Am I out of order on this?

Peter

[OldGit]

Hummmmmm half and half.
I think you can only do so much by yourself, espeicially for solos, Then it's best to hear what everyone else is doing to hone it and tie in with everything else.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

'cause you're not out of order. It sounds like the guitard is a total numpty who doesn't understand the difference between practicing and rehearsing.

I record rehearsals & gigs so we all have CDs / MP3s of how we do the songs. Parts are practiced at home, then songs are rehearsed in the studio when everyone gets together.

[OutToPlayJazz]

Not at all. I had to do that with the Blondie UK band due to being phenomenally busy with work at the time. Luckily, I was transcribing basslines in about five minutes flat, so they were more astounded and amazed than anything else.

But I definitely see your point. If it's an amateur band and this takes a lot of valuable rehearsal time, then it's definitely not on, Peter.

[budget bassist]

not out of order at all. If he can't be arsed to learn the songs at home then it shouldn't eat into your practice time, which you're paying for.

[oldmanrock]

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='615254' date='Oct 2 2009, 09:22 PM']Am I out of order on this?

Peter[/quote]
No, you're right. Band practise is [i]not[/i] to learn the stuff. You should do that beforehand. Band practise is intended so all members can try what they've previously learned to see if it works with the rest of the band.

[skankdelvar]

I would have thought that the guitarist practising the whole song, [i]particularly [/i]the transitions to and from the solo, would be more useful than just doing the solo in isolation.

But maybe better to have done it 1-2-1. That way, if things go badly awry, you've got time to work out what to do with the body.

Edited October 2, 2009 by skankdelvar

[xilddx]

I think he probably does that to impress, no? It's possibly the only part of the song he enjoys playing, the rest is just some boring chords. He gets a kick from playing his solo in front of you. I can't stand that approach. I'm with you, I'd get pissed off with that sh*t in a rehearsal. Luckily I never get that in my bands. He was probably naffed off at you because he would have been really embarrassed after thinking you might be enjoying it, what a come down.

[Rich]

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='615263' date='Oct 2 2009, 09:33 PM']doesn't understand the difference between practicing and rehearsing.[/quote]
+100000000000000000000000

[GreeneKing]

[quote name='silddx' post='615319' date='Oct 2 2009, 10:27 PM']I think he probably does that to impress, no? It's possibly the only part of the song he enjoys playing, the rest is just some boring chords. He gets a kick from playing his solo in front of you. I can't stand that approach. I'm with you, I'd get pissed off with that sh*t in a rehearsal. Luckily I never get that in my bands. He was probably naffed off at you because he would have been really embarrassed after thinking you might be enjoying it, what a come down.[/quote]

There is most definitely a bit of that going on at times. I do appreciate that I'd benefit from learning the transitions too, that and being comfortable with picking up a song anywhere. Hmmm....

Sadly this is the tip of an iceberg

[Hutton]

I'm definitely in agreement with you on this one. What you have to watch is how you put it to someone (in your case the guitarist) that perhaps the soloing practice should have been done at home. The way we say things can be what is resented with the point or content being of secondary importance. It's all about making your point with senstivity so as not too hurt someone or belittle them.

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='615329' date='Oct 2 2009, 10:41 PM']I do appreciate that I'd benefit from learning the transitions too, that and being comfortable with picking up a song anywhere.[/quote]
Sorry, I should have been clearer in my post. I meant [i]the guitarist [/i]would benefit from practicing the transition - off the chords, tap-dance on the pedals, flick his selector switch, crank the back pick-up, re-arrange fingers, prepare to gurn like an idiot sucking goat's pee through a tiny straw, then do it all again, only in reverse. That sort of thing. It takes practice, y'know.

I've amended my post accordingly. Absolutely no crit of your abilities intended.

[quote name='Hutton' post='615333' date='Oct 2 2009, 10:45 PM']It's all about making your point with senstivity so as not too hurt someone or belittle them.[/quote]

Absolutely. "Shut the f*** up or I'll kill you" usually works.

Edited October 2, 2009 by skankdelvar

[GreeneKing]

[quote name='Hutton' post='615333' date='Oct 2 2009, 10:45 PM']I'm definitely in agreement with you on this one. What you have to watch is how you put it to someone (in your case the guitarist) that perhaps the soloing practice should have been done at home. The way we say things can be what is resented with the point or content being of secondary importance. It's all about making your point with senstivity so as not too hurt someone or belittle them.[/quote]

I'm usually quite a sensitive kind of bloke, I work as a counsellor and have a great deal of empathy. Sadly sensitive with this guy goes totally over his head Also the actual wording I've used above is written for dramatic emphasis and is probably not the actual words used. At my age it's difficult to remember

As I said, I've hinted at this before as have others. I have considered that there is sometimes some net benefit to the band as a whole too and I will try to work that in while somehow not letting band practice become his 'w*nkfest'.

Difficult.

Anyone in the NW need a bassist?

Peter

Edited October 2, 2009 by GreeneKing

[GreeneKing]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='615348' date='Oct 2 2009, 10:55 PM']Sorry, I should have been clearer in my post. I meant [i]the guitarist [/i]would benefit from practicing the transition - off the chords, tap-dance on the pedals, flick his selector switch, crank the back pick-up, re-arrange fingers, prepare to gurn like an idiot sucking goat's pee through a tiny straw, then do it all again, only in reverse. That sort of thing. It takes practice, y'know.

I've amended my post accordingly. Absolutely no crit of your abilities intended.



Absolutely. "Shut the f*** up or I'll kill you" usually works.[/quote]

No offence taken, I'm on a learning curve and I acknowledge that

Reminds of another frustrating practice habit that he can't overcome despite my repeated fairly gentle 'hints'. Between each number we have the shuffle of paperwork (he doesn't learn his lyrics and needs a music stand with chords and words), the playing of random chords and much tuning where everyone has to be quiet despite his inline tuner. We are always waiting around for him. Given a gig he's the same, very amateurish imho.

Peter

[JTUK]

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='615254' date='Oct 2 2009, 09:22 PM']It's no secret that I find our lead guitarist and singer difficult to work with. It's not just me, we all do.

During band practices he'll often say ' can I just do the solo'. I dread it because I find it difficult to work out where the bass comes in mid song.

Eventually I thought to myself, I learn the bassline and then I bring it to band practice, I wouldn't dream of using band practice to learn it as I feel that's down to me.

So I hinted in a band email that we should learn the solo's 1st and not use everyone else's time to do it.

Tonight, as per usual he says 'can I just do the solo again?'.

Well we do it and I say 'Dave perhaps we should work on that stuff by ourselves and not waste the band's time.

OMG was he pissed.

What do you think? Am I out of order on this?

Peter[/quote]


NO

[Moos3h]

I've been both sides of this and think it depends a lot on the players. If there's NO sign of work having been done outside of the rehearsal room then yes, I'd say there was a fair right for you to be irritated by it.

However, a lot of players (myself included when I used to play lead) like to hear the band play through it before they shape the solo - often I wouldn't have a clue what I was doing until I heard our bassist and drummer running through it.

Now I'm the other side of the fence, I appreciate it greatly that our guitarist learns things BEFORE the session as it saves precious time and keeps the rehearsals on track.

Cheers,
James

[JTUK]

In fact, tell him you want to run through parts with just the bass and drums when he starts all that nonsense..
as without a solid bottom-end, he has nothing to w*** over

[peteb]

Depends on how your band works, some will work the solos, etc in the rehearsal room some beforehand

I play in two bands - in one the guitar player pretty much works out his solos in the room, one prepares in advance. Guess who is the best guitarist in the better band??

Edited October 2, 2009 by peteb

[niceguyhomer]

The man's a **** Pedro - bloody guitarists. I remember when I was in my last 'guitar' band, I drove home from Bristol one night to Preston for a rehearsal cos we had an important gig the following Saturday. We had 20 mins rehearsal at the most and then ran through Comfortably Dumb and he couldn't get 'his Comfy sound' so the remainder of the night was spent tweaking his Boss ME8. The band didn't play another note and after an hour and a half, we gave up and just left him to it.

I had to leave at 5.30 in the morning to make it back to Bristol in time - I should have just stayed in the 4 star hotel there and got pi55ed

[xilddx]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='615387' date='Oct 2 2009, 11:46 PM']The man's a **** Pedro - bloody guitarists. I remember when I was in my last 'guitar' band, I drove home from Bristol one night to Preston for a rehearsal cos we had an important gig the following Saturday. We had 20 mins rehearsal at the most and then ran through Comfortably Dumb and he couldn't get 'his Comfy sound' so the remainder of the night was spent tweaking his Boss ME8. The band didn't play another note and after an hour and a half, we gave up and just left him to it.

I had to leave at 5.30 in the morning to make it back to Bristol in time - I should have just stayed in the 4 star hotel there and got pi55ed [/quote]
That's ridiculous!

This is why I don't play in bands that have a guitarist, I don't play in bands with bloke singers either.

[oldmanrock]

[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='615387' date='Oct 2 2009, 11:46 PM']I should have just stayed in the 4 star hotel there and got pi55ed [/quote]
Now [b][i]THAT'S[/i][/b] rock n roll !!!

[Hamster]

Learn the song at home, learn to play the song together at rehersal. Perhaps he's just really striving to get the solo off 100% so the band sounds good, or maybe to make him sound good? - either way it's worth a chilled pint about

[LukeFRC]

erm... maybe i'm missing something... its a solo, surely a half decent guitarist can just improvise his part?

[JTUK]

[quote name='silddx' post='615394' date='Oct 2 2009, 11:49 PM']That's ridiculous!

This is why I don't play in bands that have a guitarist, I don't play in bands with bloke singers either.[/quote]


Not sure I'd go this far, myself, but, yeah, you can do without that sort of attitude.
I don't do gtr only bands anyway as I find it too limiting, so they have to take a back seat at times..

The song comes first, then the vocals, then one of the soloists can have their chance to embellish the whole thing...
if it doesn't work, we use something that does...
No way does every song get a gtr solo.... but a tasteful player will normally carve themselves a part that works in the context of the song.

If the overall vibe was, "I am the gtr player, look at me, aren't I great" ... then we wouldn't work together ..or anyone else in the band, come to that.

[gary mac]

How could you be out of order Peter, you're the bassist.