The New Wal Website

[Spoombung]

Y'see? All my nagging about their non-existent website ("my ten year old could do that" etc) paid off.

Spoombung made it happen.

[EBS_freak]

www.pldproductions.com must be raking it in too! Every customer has the same template website but with different content. Now that's a production line!!

[Spoombung]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='619056' date='Oct 6 2009, 09:36 PM']www.pldproductions.com must be raking it in too! Every customer has the same template website but with different content. Now that's a production line!![/quote]

Ah, I was going to launch into a blistering, crushing, criticism of their rather nasty, lifeless, antiseptic, generic looking website .. but I will resist.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='619062' date='Oct 6 2009, 09:46 PM']Ah, I was going to launch into a blistering, crushing, criticism of their rather nasty, lifeless, antiseptic, generic looking website .. but I will resist.[/quote]

You may as well CC all this lot too - [url="http://www.pldproductions.com/portfolio.htm"]http://www.pldproductions.com/portfolio.htm[/url]

[Kev]

at that kind of starting price, you are paying for the brand. You could get a superb bass for half the likely final price from the likes of Shuker or similar, and i doubt the quality difference would be noticible. Great to see them in production though, just a shame they have followed the trend of needing to make such a large profit margin. No different from anyone else though i guess, tis the nature of the business these days

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='Kev' post='619068' date='Oct 6 2009, 09:59 PM']at that kind of starting price, you are paying for the brand. You could get a superb bass for half the likely final price from the likes of Shuker or similar, and i doubt the quality difference would be noticible. Great to see them in production though, just a shame they have followed the trend of needing to make such a large profit margin. No different from anyone else though i guess, tis the nature of the business these days[/quote]
Surely that's the [i]entire point[/i] of running a business? If someone asked me whether I wanted to do the same job for £50k a year that I was doing for £15k before, I would jump at it.

[Musicman20]

Interesting basses, heard nothing but good things.

I must be riff raff! The whole style just doesnt do it for me. Quite cool none the less.

£3.2K is far too much for a starting point.

Edited October 6, 2009 by Musicman20

[Kev]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='619074' date='Oct 6 2009, 10:06 PM']Surely that's the [i]entire point[/i] of running a business? If someone asked me whether I wanted to do the same job for £50k a year that I was doing for £15k before, I would jump at it. [/quote]
perhaps i am naive and like to think there are more luthiers out there who care more about music than money

Anyway, i can see where this kind of arguement can go so lets nip it in the bud. Its great for people who really want the Wal sound, but IMO too expensive for somebody who simply wants a quality custom bass.

[Spoombung]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='619066' date='Oct 6 2009, 09:56 PM']You may as well CC all this lot too - [url="http://www.pldproductions.com/portfolio.htm"]http://www.pldproductions.com/portfolio.htm[/url][/quote]

Oh, I can't help it now, you've got me going. The Wal website looks like some sort of Ikea/Habitat generic abomination made by a team of 6th formers on a Dreamweaver course. There's tiny little pictures that you click on ... only to bring up more tiny pictures.

Their website puts me off ordering a new Wal even more than the actual price.

[davidmpires]

they are busy making basses and getting their books back on track again not websites. A little like Alex's website, it's not shiny and it doesn't have a song when you go into it, but it does the job of giving the info, the products speak for itself. I just hope that's the case with Wall, I'm sure it will be.

Edited October 6, 2009 by davidmpires

[Kev]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='619087' date='Oct 6 2009, 10:17 PM']Oh, I can't help it now, you've got me going. The Wal website looks like some sort of Ikea/Habitat generic abomination made by a team of 6th formers on a Dreamweaver course. There's tiny little pictures that you click on ... only to bring up more tiny pictures.

Their website puts me off ordering a new Wal even more than the actual price.[/quote]
With all due respect, if a basic website puts you off buying a wal, i don't think you should be spending thousands of pounds on a bass.

When talking about this kind of money, its all about telephone calls/emails/meeting in person, not clicking 'click to enlarge', 'view details' and 'add to basket' on a website I very much doubt there wil be many visitors to the website who don't know what a wal bass is about, so a basic site is all that is needed, for the time being at least.

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='619087' date='Oct 6 2009, 10:17 PM']Oh, I can't help it now, you've got me going. The Wal website looks like some sort of Ikea/Habitat generic abomination made by a team of 6th formers on a Dreamweaver course. There's tiny little pictures that you click on ... only to bring up more tiny pictures.

Their website puts me off ordering a new Wal even more than the actual price.[/quote]
From their website: "We design with the following browsers in mind: Internet Explorer 5+, Netscape 6+, and Mozilla 1+. This covers just about the entire range of browsers currently in use out there."

[chris_b]

Good grief. How much more is there to moan about!

[littleal]

£3600 for a six string wal, if i had the cash i would place an order
Maybe one day

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='617407' date='Oct 5 2009, 01:38 PM']That's a helluva lot of money... for a starting price...

I know why they are back in business - license to print money by trading on the name? It will be interesting seeing how this pans out - back in the old Wal days, the competition wasn't as rife as it is now... I hope they manage to recapture the early Wal days though. It's good to get some UK luthiers some worldwide coverage!

Going for a lie down now... can't quite believe that starting price. I wonder what a fully loaded example is likely to cost!?[/quote]


[quote name='philw' post='617414' date='Oct 5 2009, 01:53 PM']That's a pretty cynical attitude isn't it? Believe me, whoever you are, and whatever "name" you own, custom building high-end basses (or those short scale six string things that I can't remember the term for), is never, ever going to fall into the "license to print money" category.

Phil[/quote]


Gotta agree with Phil on this one... Having known Paul Herman for a number of years from back in the days when he worked for Wal & Pete, he's just not that kind of person. And without Paul agreeing to take this on with whatever element of risk there is that comes with it - as there always is when you start a business - I'm sure it's going to be some while before he's just 'printing money'!

I went to have a look around the new factory/workshop back in May and it's really fabulous, but it obviously required significant investment to get it that way. Similarly, with all the woods and parts that were there which are needed to make the new basses..It must all have cost a lot of money..

Having said that, Wal & Pete were never driven by the money when they started, so when Pete was forced to retire afew years ago, he would have been desperate to find the right person to take the brand forward. So on that basis alone, the fact the he chose to hand over to Paul says everything about Paul's credentials to me..

On all sorts of levels I'm really glad that Wal is back in business; the fact it's a great and unique British bass for one, for keeping Wal and Pete's legacy alive for another and also because Paul is one of the good guys IMHO..

Long may it continue!

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='619207' date='Oct 7 2009, 12:41 AM']Gotta agree with Phil on this one... Having known Paul Herman for a number of years from back in the days when he worked for Wal & Pete, he's just not that kind of person. And without Paul agreeing to take this on with whatever element of risk there is that comes with it - as there always is when you start a business - I'm sure it's going to be some while before he's just 'printing money'!

I went to have a look around the new factory/workshop back in May and it's really fabulous, but it obviously required significant investment to get it that way. Similarly, with all the woods and parts that were there which are needed to make the new basses..It must all have cost a lot of money..

Having said that, Wal & Pete were never driven by the money when they started, so when Pete was forced to retire afew years ago, he would have been desperate to find the right person to take the brand forward. So on that basis alone, the fact the he chose to hand over to Paul says everything about Paul's credentials to me..

On all sorts of levels I'm really glad that Wal is back in business; the fact it's a great and unique British bass for one, for keeping Wal and Pete's legacy alive for another and also because Paul is one of the good guys IMHO..

Long may it continue![/quote]

I think that people took my flippant comment the wrong way. I am fully aware that very few luthiers out there make more than just enough money to get by - in a world of mass production overseas (and those instruments are now built to a staggeringly good quality!) to battle against, it's tough. The high price of the new Wals puts it into the Fodera (amongst others) category and all the associated BS that lies in that territory. It's been discussed many a time... and indeed on this thread. If people want to pay that much for an instrument with a specific name on the headstock that is fine... but as has been pointed out, many think that the starting price is on the hefty side compared to the competition, especially now that the Wal circuit to some degree is available through the ACG preamps. Paul will probably probably get the orders because there is a strong interest in the Wal trademark... and if the business is there, who can blame him? In fact, good luck to him - and I mean that! As stated before, I'm all for a good UK luthier... especially if they can get global recognition. It will be interesting to see how much the new instruments are accepted as real Wals...as I mentioned earlier... or whether they will be regarded as imitations. I hope the new wave of Wal picks up where previous production stopped.

And yes, I am a Wal fan. Always have been. Never got past the 4 string headstock... but the five for me, is a lovely bass... and yes, I would love to own one. But I don't know if I want to own one that much to pay that price. But that's OK, I'm sure there are loads of people who are prepared to pay that. When I look at a Wal and assess the price (and the competition), I still find that a Wal built from not particularly exotic woods with not any particularly intricate woodwork or paintwork and a circuit that has undergone no redevelopment costs from the last production era is pricey at that starting price. Granted the pickups and hardware need to be specially manufactured... but at that cost?

Just thought I would clear that up for everybody. Remember, this is just opinion... you don't have to agree or disagree with me. I'm just sharing some thoughts.

Edited October 7, 2009 by EBS_freak

[birdy]

I have always fancied a Wal and you get what you pay for. For me Fleas tone on BSSM is my fave ever bass sound.
I wouldn't sell my Alleva to buy one though

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Kev' post='619068' date='Oct 6 2009, 09:59 PM']at that kind of starting price, you are paying for the brand. You could get a superb bass for half the likely final price from the likes of Shuker or similar, and i doubt the quality difference would be noticible. Great to see them in production though, just a shame they have followed the trend of needing to make such a large profit margin. No different from anyone else though i guess, tis the nature of the business these days[/quote]

You should probably read [url="http://www.gusguitars.com/reviews.php?model_id=18&review_id=17"]this article[/url] about Simon Farmer, the man behind Gus Guitars. His instruments are in the same price range as Wals, and like the Wal his instruments are nearly all custom parts, so everything is either made in-house or bespoke outsourced. He's talking about making £10 ph building his instruments.

I know that we have a few commercial luthiers who post here. Do any of them make even £20 ph building instruments - what I would consider to be a minimum income for a skilled creative job?

Then there's also the demand to be taken into account. It's been at least 5 years since there were any new Wals being made. There's still an awful lot of interest in these instruments, fuelled by several high-profile Wal users; and I would suspect that even an entry level of £2500 would result in Paul being swamped with more orders than he could satisfy in a sensible time-scale which wouldn't do either him or those people wanting to buy a new Wal any favours.

For those who need a Wal bass that's the price they are take it or leave it. For those who just want a custome bass there are plenty of other luthiers that can build you something of quality for less. None of them will will have all the features that make a Wal bass what it is though.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='619392' date='Oct 7 2009, 10:53 AM']You should probably read [url="http://www.gusguitars.com/reviews.php?model_id=18&review_id=17"]this article[/url] about Simon Farmer, the man behind Gus Guitars. His instruments are in the same price range as Wals, and like the Wal his instruments are nearly all custom parts, so everything is either made in-house or bespoke outsourced. He's talking about making £10 ph building his instruments.

I know that we have a few commercial luthiers who post here. Do any of them make even £20 ph building instruments - what I would consider to be a minimum income for a skilled creative job?

Then there's also the demand to be taken into account. It's been at least 5 years since there were any new Wals being made. There's still an awful lot of interest in these instruments, fuelled by several high-profile Wal users; and I would suspect that even an entry level of £2500 would result in Paul being swamped with more orders than he could satisfy in a sensible time-scale which wouldn't do either him or those people wanting to buy a new Wal any favours.

For those who need a Wal bass that's the price they are take it or leave it. For those who just want a custome bass there are plenty of other luthiers that can build you something of quality for less. None of them will will have all the features that make a Wal bass what it is though.[/quote]

I remember reading that Gus review way back. I respect Simon Farmer, there is some truely innovative stuff going on there.

Just a thought, what are the features that make a Wal what it is? The one thing that stands out for me is the circuit...? Anything else that anybody reckons is so Wal only Wal has it covered?

[BigRedX]

Pickups as well IIRC they have a separate coil for every pole-piece. That can't be cheap to make.

Also the custom bridge will probably have an influence on the sound. In my experience any guitar or bass that doesn't use a stock bridge from one of the big hardware makers ends up with a unique edge to the tone, although it might be because any luthier who goes to the trouble of designing and producing their own bridge is most likely going to be custom building most of the rest of the hardware.

[littleal]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='619404' date='Oct 7 2009, 11:11 AM']I remember reading that Gus review way back. I respect Simon Farmer, there is some truely innovative stuff going on there.

Just a thought, what are the features that make a Wal what it is? The one thing that stands out for me is the circuit...? Anything else that anybody reckons is so Wal only Wal has it covered?[/quote]

The Tone, Try and get that wal sound from any other bass.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='619412' date='Oct 7 2009, 11:17 AM']Pickups as well IIRC they have a separate coil for every pole-piece. That can't be cheap to make.

Also the custom bridge will probably have an influence on the sound. In my experience any guitar or bass that doesn't use a stock bridge from one of the big hardware makers ends up with a unique edge to the tone, although it might be because any luthier who goes to the trouble of designing and producing their own bridge is most likely going to be custom building most of the rest of the hardware.[/quote]

Ah yeah - I forgot about the pickups... yeah, the work in assembling those must be quite time consuming. I've seen those designs before but very few seem to ever make it to general sale.

Yeah, the bridge is an interesting comment too - understanding exactly how tone is influenced by the bridge is a very complex relationship. Whether the the bridge is essential to the Wal tone is hard to say... but as you say custom manufacturing of a bridge is an expensive route to go down, especially in the limited number that we are probably talking about.

Edited October 7, 2009 by EBS_freak

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='littleal' post='619413' date='Oct 7 2009, 11:17 AM']The Tone, Try and get that wal sound from any other bass.[/quote]

OK... but [i]which[/i] tone?

[purpleblob]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='619087' date='Oct 6 2009, 10:17 PM']Their website puts me off ordering a new Wal even more than the actual price.[/quote]

Hmm, no smileys on that comment - I'll hope that this is said with tongue firmly in cheek.

[BigRedX]

And then there's confusion as to whether or not the classic tone in question is actually a Wal.

Justin Chancellor is almost definitely using a Wal on his classic recordings, however his tone is equally dependent on the effects and amplification he uses. The bass is only part of the whole sound.

Mick Karn. Most of the classic Japan bass sound isn't his Wal, but a Travis Bean. The Wal is only on some of "Tin Drum" and "Oil On Canvas" and there are photos of him still using the TB on some of the gigs from the OoC tour.

Flea, does anyone know 100% for sure which RHCP tracks have the Wal on them?