Studio acoustics

[GM10]

I've recently converted half of my garage into a small studio. A reasonable amount of space and fairly well soundproofed. I'm now looking at acoustic treatment as it does sound hollow and sound is bouncing all over the place. Does anyone have any advice on descent, reasonably priced acoustic kits or any hints/tips in general on developing good acoustics on a budget.

[51m0n]

Floor to ceiling bookshelves across two walls full of assorted books makes a fantastic diffuser - then you'll need to look up how to make some bass traps, and you'll be a lot better off....

[EdwardHimself]

the best way to get good acoustics is to minimise parallel surfaces, which might be difficult inside a garage. The first thing you should do is to stick bass traps in. These are basically trianglular prism shaped blocks of acoustic foam that you stick in the corners of the room, this absorbs low frequency buildup in the corners of your room which will make the bass sound immensely tighter. The next thing to do is to sort out diffusers. This consists of sticking things on the walls that have a lot of surfaces which scatter the soundwaves in different directions which sorts out getting rid of frequency buildups in various places around the room. These can be bought but as 51m0n says it's also not too difficult to make by putting up bookcases or shelving and just stick stuff on them. Whether you want to put foam sound absorption up on the walls really depends on whether you're looking for a controlled "dead" sounding space or a more "live" sort of thing. You might decide you want something between the 2 and stick a bit of foam in various places. I have a carpet down so my room doesn't sound too bad.

Edited October 6, 2009 by EdwardHimself

[ironside1966]

I Use
[url="http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/Advanced-Acoustics__W0QQ_armrsZ1"]http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/Advanced-Aco...s__W0QQ_armrsZ1[/url]

[GM10]

Hi, thanks for the responses.

I have looked at the Advanced Acoustics website and if I don't find a cheaper option I probably will go down that route.

I want to record miked vocals, bongo's and acoustic guitar so I think I'm right in saying that I'll need a dead sound. Is the advanced acoustic stuff particularly special or will ordinary foam do a similar job? I'm talking something permanent here not quilts and stuff.

As you can tell, I'm being a bit of a tight a**e here but the cost of everything else for the studio has left me a bit skint!

Thanks again

[51m0n]

[quote name='GM10' post='619341' date='Oct 7 2009, 09:44 AM']Hi, thanks for the responses.

I have looked at the Advanced Acoustics website and if I don't find a cheaper option I probably will go down that route.

I want to record miked vocals, bongo's and acoustic guitar so I think I'm right in saying that I'll need a dead sound. Is the advanced acoustic stuff particularly special or will ordinary foam do a similar job? I'm talking something permanent here not quilts and stuff.

As you can tell, I'm being a bit of a tight a**e here but the cost of everything else for the studio has left me a bit skint!

Thanks again[/quote]

Well no, not necessarily, you may find that with the above treatment the room sounds fabulous and you prefer that sound to one of processed reverb. You can always deaden one corner down, get a mic [url="http://www.studiospares.com/Mic-Accessories/SE-Electronics-Instrument-Reflexion-Filter/invt/422160"]reflection shield[/url] to put around the back of the mic, then place the vocalist/instrumentalist with back to corner. Or you can use reversible panels to be able to tailor the room to what you are doing.

I think going the totally deadening route is generally a huge mistake, since its a one way ride, and IME nothing you can do with a processor sounds as good as a sorted room!

This may make you see what I mean:-

[url="http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/EntryId/109/Sonic-Makeover.aspx"]http://www.prorec.com/Articles/tabid/109/E...c-Makeover.aspx[/url]

It really doesnt have to be hugely expensive to improve a room a huge amount though, there are loads of articles on the web about sorting room acoustics out. The basics are pretty simple to grasp and achieve, bass trapping helps sort out standing waves/room nodes, diffusers sort out parallel wall reflections, then acoustic foam (or heavy curtains) darkens the room, tiles or glass or wood brightens the room. Getting the balance spot on is the tricky bit, so doing anything that can't be changed or fettled with is a bad plan IMO....

Edited October 7, 2009 by 51m0n

[Rimskidog]

Oooh. Misrepresentation abounds!

First of all... forget foam and forget bookshelves. Foam in the corners does not trap low frequencies (which are the problem ones). At best it will trap lower mid frequencies. Cheapest way of doing this is rockwool. Loads of the stuff. Corners are the place to start... with superchunk traps made of rockwool. How you treat it after that depends how much you actually record in the room or whether it's rpedominantly a mix room.

A number of us have spent quite a lot of time putting together useful information and busting fallacies on this stuff. You can find lots of useful info, picture diaries on what you can usefully do here: [url="http://forums.dv247.com/acoustic-treatment/"]http://forums.dv247.com/acoustic-treatment/[/url]

I'd suggest you read these, see what other people have done, then post what you are thinking of doing for comment.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Rimskidog' post='619492' date='Oct 7 2009, 12:42 PM']Oooh. Misrepresentation abounds![/quote]

Well, what can i say? I guess a lot of people (including me) like to think they're experts when in fact they know nothing whatsoever.

[51m0n]

[quote name='GM10' post='618588' date='Oct 6 2009, 02:27 PM']Does anyone have any advice on descent, reasonably priced acoustic kits or [b]any hints/tips in general on developing good acoustics on a budget.[/b][/quote]

[quote name='Rimskidog' post='619492' date='Oct 7 2009, 12:42 PM']Oooh. Misrepresentation abounds!

First of all... forget foam and forget bookshelves.[/quote]

Well in my defense it is known that bookshelf diffusers, though far from perfect are an improvement over a bare wall, and quite possibly the cheapest solution he could get (ie if he has the books already).

Its fair to say they wont be perfect, but short of spending money on a test harness and constructing a load of bits and bobs or hiring someone in to do it for him he isnt going to get close to perfect in a room with parallel walls.

Not to in anyway detract from Rimskidog and the av site (which has got some excellent solutions in btw!)

[slaphappygarry]

I agree with Rimskidog.

For what that 'budget' foam costs, you could get a much more solid solution with some raw materials (rock wool and wood) and a little research in the right places. Also check out sound on sound. They have some great started acoustic solutions.

G

[GM10]

thanks for all your suggestions, they're all appreciated.


I won't be doing that much vocal, acoustic recording so here's my thoughts from the suggestions. Rockwool in the corners to act as bass traps. I've seen the pictures thanks to Rimskidog. Material over the rockwool for aesthetics. I think this would help sound quality whilst mixing.

A couple of hooks on the ceiling in one corner of the room to hang a quilt on and use a reflection filter for vocals and acoustic. Stating the obvious here but the quilt would only be in place for the recording.

If there were still issues I would look at a stage 2. any materials in stage 1 could still be used so i'm not wasting any money. Does that sound logical?

[Rimskidog]

re bookshelf diffsors, search FrankGIK on the subject on DV forums. He explains more eloquently that I ever could why they can actually make things worse.

[quote name='GM10' post='619643' date='Oct 7 2009, 03:07 PM']thanks for all your suggestions, they're all appreciated.


I won't be doing that much vocal, acoustic recording so here's my thoughts from the suggestions. Rockwool in the corners to act as bass traps. I've seen the pictures thanks to Rimskidog. Material over the rockwool for aesthetics. I think this would help sound quality whilst mixing.

A couple of hooks on the ceiling in one corner of the room to hang a quilt on and use a reflection filter for vocals and acoustic. Stating the obvious here but the quilt would only be in place for the recording.

If there were still issues I would look at a stage 2. any materials in stage 1 could still be used so i'm not wasting any money. Does that sound logical?[/quote]

that sounds very logical. You might also want to consider a rockwool panel at each reflection point. That will help significantly with imaging while mixing and can double as gobos when you are recording

[GM10]

Update - I've fitted 7 4x2 (absorbsion) rockwool panels and 2 5x2. The 5x2s are diagnal across the corners, sitting on the desk. 2 of the 4x2s are on the ceiling. I've fitted the others where I thought was the best spots, reflection points etc. I've got two more to fit. one of those diagonally floor to ceiling in one of the remaining corners. For a small room it now sounds tons better, and I mean tons. I did use some acoustic foam (corner bass traps) between the ceiling and the walls (above the absorbsion panels) but not on the corners where I've taken the absorbsion panels to the ceiling.

I've got a quilt in front of the door but it's messy and p*****g me off. I'm going to put a nice heavy curtain there.

If there's any interest I'll take pictures

Question is: have I overdone it for a small room. From my recordings I'd say not but I sometimes question my ability to hear the little naunces.

[Rimskidog]

[quote name='GM10' post='765410' date='Mar 5 2010, 05:16 PM']Update - I've fitted 7 4x2 (absorbsion) rockwool panels and 2 5x2. The 5x2s are diagnal across the corners, sitting on the desk. 2 of the 4x2s are on the ceiling. I've fitted the others where I thought was the best spots, reflection points etc. I've got two more to fit. one of those diagonally floor to ceiling in one of the remaining corners. For a small room it now sounds tons better, and I mean tons. I did use some acoustic foam (corner bass traps) between the ceiling and the walls (above the absorbsion panels) but not on the corners where I've taken the absorbsion panels to the ceiling.

I've got a quilt in front of the door but it's messy and p*****g me off. I'm going to put a nice heavy curtain there.

If there's any interest I'll take pictures

Question is: have I overdone it for a small room. From my recordings I'd say not but I sometimes question my ability to hear the little naunces.[/quote]

It's really almost impossible to [i]overdo[/i] it. If it sounds better, it is better.

[lowdown]

[quote name='GM10' post='765410' date='Mar 5 2010, 05:16 PM']Update - I've fitted 7 4x2 (absorbsion) rockwool panels and 2 5x2. The 5x2s are diagnal across the corners, sitting on the desk. 2 of the 4x2s are on the ceiling. I've fitted the others where I thought was the best spots, reflection points etc. I've got two more to fit. one of those diagonally floor to ceiling in one of the remaining corners. For a small room it now sounds tons better, and I mean tons. I did use some acoustic foam (corner bass traps) between the ceiling and the walls (above the absorbsion panels) but not on the corners where I've taken the absorbsion panels to the ceiling.

I've got a quilt in front of the door but it's messy and p*****g me off. I'm going to put a nice heavy curtain there.

If there's any interest I'll take pictures

Question is: have I overdone it for a small room. From my recordings I'd say not but I sometimes question my ability to hear the little naunces.[/quote]

Yer..lets see some pics....
Always good to see how others go about it.


Garry

[GM10]

[quote name='Rimskidog' post='765869' date='Mar 6 2010, 10:05 AM']It's really almost impossible to [i]overdo[/i] it. If it sounds better, it is better.[/quote]

I read too much can affect the higher frequencies? By the way pretty much everything I've learnt has come from your postings, links etc. I've made some mistakes but I've got quite a few things right thanks to you, cheers.

[quote name='lowdown' post='766307' date='Mar 6 2010, 06:25 PM']Yer..lets see some pics....
Always good to see how others go about it.

When it's finished in a couple of weeks I'll post some piccys.


Garry[/quote]

[Rimskidog]

[quote name='GM10' post='767368' date='Mar 7 2010, 09:47 PM']I read too much can affect the higher frequencies? By the way pretty much everything I've learnt has come from your postings, links etc. I've made some mistakes but I've got quite a few things right thanks to you, cheers.[/quote]

If all your walls and ceilings are completely covered then yeah that would suck the high frequencies but even then that would be fairly easily remedied by adding some reflective material to some of the traps - though not at any mirror points! (cardboard or paper over the bass trap but under the material is one old trick for ensuring highs arenmt sucked out). You could be mroe creative than that though by adding a couple of homemade polydiffusors or even simply pinning some old cd-r's to some of the trapping (makes for quite a cool effect and gives provides for some reflective surface for those highs to bounce around.) Seriously though, I doubt you are close to that point yet. I'll dig out some of the photos from my old control room so you can see how much of that stuff you can put in a room before it becomes a problem.

Glad you've found it useful

Trev

Edited March 15, 2010 by Rimskidog

[GM10]

[quote name='Rimskidog' post='775627' date='Mar 15 2010, 08:14 PM']If all your walls and ceilings are completely covered then yeah that would suck the high frequencies but even then that would be fairly easily remedied by adding some reflective material to some of the traps - though not at any mirror points! (cardboard or paper over the bass trap but under the material is one old trick for ensuring highs arenmt sucked out). You could be mroe creative than that though by adding a couple of homemade polydiffusors or even simply pinning some old cd-r's to some of the trapping (makes for quite a cool effect and gives provides for some reflective surface for those highs to bounce around.) Seriously though, I doubt you are close to that point yet. I'll dig out some of the photos from my old control room so you can see how much of that stuff you can put in a room before it becomes a problem.

Glad you've found it useful

Trev[/quote]

Yeh, some photos would be good.

I'll get some photos up of my own as soon as I'm done. I think it will be easier to show you than try and explain the room set up. As it stands I think there's no problem

Suppose the biggest mistake I made was thinking I could control the air flow and humidity by opening doors when needed and using a dehumidifier. On reflection, daft money-saving idea. I'll have to fit an extractor/air flow fan at some point.

[cheddatom]

I'd like to see pics. also, did you build your own traps? Was it easy? Prices etc?

I was about to start on my own but Travis Perkins never got back to me with a price on rock wool, and I managed to sort the problem with EQ. I'm going to start recording in this room soon though, so it would be better to make some traps.

[GM10]

I've zipped all these piccys but don't know if they'll be viewable. Here goes!

[attachment=46039:Studio_007.zip]

[GM10]

Thanks Lowdown.

There's some more cutting, glueing, fixing to do but it gives you an idea.

I've set the studio up from advice and info, mostly from Basschat so I owe a lot of thanks to the forum for helping me. As far as the layout and set up of the room is concerned I'm open to alternative suggestions, critique etc as I'm far from being expert at this stuff.

The panels on the wall are easy to make. There's loads on You Tube about making them. They work out approx £25-£30 a trap, 4'x2' .I may have made a mistake by not considering the material too much. Muslin, very breathable type stuff is the best to use but I went for aesthetics. I'm planning to use this room as my escape for many years to come so I wanted it to look nice, nice to my taste anyway.

Edited March 30, 2010 by GM10

[lowdown]

[quote name='GM10' post='790334' date='Mar 30 2010, 10:16 AM']Can you view them?[/quote]

Yep you can view them if you download the zip.

Cheers


Garry

[cheddatom]

Thanks for the pics, it's looking very tidy.