Spector we have a problem

[davidmpires]

Hi all

This will be a long one.

I have two lovely basses one Spector Euro 5lx with the tonepump as a preamp and a T-bass 98’ by status.

I use a Markbass F1 plugged into a Barefaced Compact.

Since I got the barefaced compact that I’ve been having problems with my Spector, I just can’t get a usable sound. I spoke to Alex and he mentioned that the tonepump has a boost of 18db and that’s overkill, and I was happy to roll both knobs back and not use the EQ on the bass if I could get a decent enough sound to play with, unfortunately the A, E and B string distort when I’m playing even at house volumes. I played a couple gigs outdoors and I guess that it wasn’t so noticeable but last Friday at the pub I was really struggling to get something I could use. Then yesterday at home I plugged in and A/B with the T-bass and I can boost the lows as much as I want without distorting.

Ok so I’ve realised that the problem is with my Spector.
I plugged into my Warwick Blue Cab and it was fine even when boosting the lows.

Checked the battery and for any loose cables.

Alex mentioned that it might be the stage input clipping on my amp.

So how can I fix it?

Thanks

David

[Soulman]

[quote name='davidmpires' post='618668' date='Oct 6 2009, 03:30 PM']Hi all

This will be a long one.

I have two lovely basses one Spector Euro 5lx with the tonepump as a preamp and a T-bass 98’ by status.

I use a Markbass F1 plugged into a Barefaced Compact.

Since I got the barefaced compact that I’ve been having problems with my Spector, I just can’t get a usable sound. I spoke to Alex and he mentioned that the tonepump has a boost of 18db and that’s overkill, and I was happy to roll both knobs back and not use the EQ on the bass if I could get a decent enough sound to play with, unfortunately the A, E and B string distort when I’m playing even at house volumes. I played a couple gigs outdoors and I guess that it wasn’t so noticeable but last Friday at the pub I was really struggling to get something I could use. Then yesterday at home I plugged in and A/B with the T-bass and I can boost the lows as much as I want without distorting.

Ok so I’ve realised that the problem is with my Spector.
I plugged into my Warwick Blue Cab and it was fine even when boosting the lows.

Checked the battery and for any loose cables.

Alex mentioned that it might be the stage input clipping on my amp.

So how can I fix it?

Thanks

David[/quote]
Can you turn the preamp down inside the control cavity?perhaps it's just too much output.

[davidmpires]

[quote name='Bassilla' post='618685' date='Oct 6 2009, 03:43 PM']Can you turn the preamp down inside the control cavity?perhaps it's just too much output.[/quote]

Not on this model. 2006 models don't have that but I can ask Spector, will email them now.

[Soulman]

[quote name='davidmpires' post='618694' date='Oct 6 2009, 03:49 PM']Not on this model. 2006 models don't have that but I can ask Spector, will email them now.[/quote]Sounds like it's just too much for your amp,does your amp have a "active/passive" switch?failing that,and if your sure the bass is ok,you can install a 10db pad inside the bass,but if your not into electronics you will have to get a luthier to sort it for you,you may even be able to get a outboard limiter that will solve your problem,don't mess with the eq circuit in the bass unless you know what your doing.

[davidmpires]

no i'm not tech savvy I'm the plug and play type, but for that I need a good tone.

The markbass does not have a active/passive switch, would it help if I turn the gain right down instead of having it before clipping?

[GreeneKing]

I may be teaching granny to suck eggs but are you aware that the tonepump is boost only i.e. that the midway setting on the tone controls is not flat.

Spector call flat when both tone controls are backed right off (that's what Spector say but others say flat is when they are wound up a little).

I'm not a huge Tonepump fan myself. My Euro LX 5, that arrived today as it happens ( ) has one of these in place of the Tonepump,

[url="http://www.spectorbass.com/zen2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=28"]http://www.spectorbass.com/zen2/index.php?...;products_id=28[/url]

a worthwhile investment. A lot of people ditch the Tonepump in favour of a U-retro, Aguilar, EMG or Bartolini pre, from experience an ACG pre also works very effectively.

I put a U-Retro into my NS5XL so I've got a spare one of these:

[url="http://www.spectorbass.com/zen2/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4&products_id=27"]http://www.spectorbass.com/zen2/index.php?...;products_id=27[/url]

But it's an 18V pre.

Peter

Edited October 6, 2009 by GreeneKing

[Soulman]

[quote name='davidmpires' post='618710' date='Oct 6 2009, 04:04 PM']no i'm not tech savvy I'm the plug and play type, but for that I need a good tone.

The markbass does not have a active/passive switch, would it help if I turn the gain right down instead of having it before clipping?[/quote]you should A/B with your other bass and see the point at which the other bass starts to clip your amps preamp(if it does)plug in the spector and try and get the same level,don't turn down the spector,use it as you have been doing,just turn down the gain on your amp and see what happens.

[EBS_freak]

Whats the clearance between your strings and pickups looking like? If your pickups are too close to your strings you can get all sorts of weird things going on... including distortion. Try lowering the pickups away from the strings ro reduce the amount of input on your bass circuit - that should in turn reduce the output from your bass.

[davidmpires]

[quote]hello -

thanks for the email. I am glad you are enjoying your Spector bass! sorry to read about the high output.

we added an internal trim pot to the TonePump circuit a couple of years ago. this change might have been after your purchase...
please check inside for a small trim pot on the TonePump circuit.

if yours is the version without the trim pot perhaps we can get one to you from our Czech shop and you could have it installed locally??

talk to you soon,

PJ Rubal[/quote]

Above is the reply from Spector, it was hyper quick, their customer service is second to none. Love them.

Ok to try and answer all of the above. I've been doing that about leaving the same settings and just changing the gain accordingly, that's what I did yesterday and I came to the conclusion that I had a problem with my Spector.

As for chaging the preamp, I know it's just a tone boost and as said I was happy to have them fully rollled back so no boost was being used. And i don't have the cash to be changing preamps now.

I haven't thought about the strings issue, I'll give it ago if the trim pot doesn't work, the bass is very comfortable as it is.

Congrats GreenKing, great bass and a lovely addition to your family. Play it good health

Edited October 6, 2009 by davidmpires

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='davidmpires' post='618730' date='Oct 6 2009, 04:19 PM']I haven't thought about the strings issue, I'll give it ago if the trim pot doesn't work, the bass is very comfortable as it is.[/quote]


I think ebs_freak meant lower the pups, rather than change the string hight.


Also checking- you say
spector --- mark bass F1 --- barefaced compact = bad sound
spector --- mark bass f1 --- warwick cab = good sound

is it maybe the cab? (or a difference in impedance of the cabs changing the power output of the amp...)

[davidmpires]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='618749' date='Oct 6 2009, 04:41 PM']I think ebs_freak meant lower the pups, rather than change the string hight.


Also checking- you say
spector --- mark bass F1 --- barefaced compact = bad sound
spector --- mark bass f1 --- warwick cab = good sound

is it maybe the cab? (or a difference in impedance of the cabs changing the power output of the amp...)[/quote]

No the warwick blue cab is just a 30w combo, not a cab, the mark bass it's not being used.

I used to have a acme b2 and never had this problem, but then again, the compact is a lot more hi-fi. I beleive that the problem should be the lack of a trim pot. I remeber not being able to use a zoom b2 because of the high output of the spector, and when recording for Alex using my H4 and the markbass the output was too much as well.

See what happens with this. Need to get down to the Gallery to get it fitted.

[Sibob]

[quote]no i'm not tech savvy I'm the plug and play type[/quote]
Me too, that's why I play passive basses lol

What I found with the Barefaced cab is that it's hyper sensitive....well compared to my cabs, and probably the Warwick, that is. So anything that is a small problem, mostly unnoticeable through another cab, may well sound more up front with the barefaced. It's not a bad thing....just a little more unforgiving, it of course means you get a much more natural and transparent sound

Hopefully the new trimmed tone pump will solve the issue
Si

[davidmpires]

Just spoke to Martin at the Gallery. he quoted me between £20-£40. Cool.

I'm a happy customer.

[davidmpires]

[quote name='Sibob' post='618769' date='Oct 6 2009, 04:56 PM']Me too, that's why I play passive basses lol

What I found with the Barefaced cab is that it's hyper sensitive....well compared to my cabs, and probably the Warwick, that is. So anything that is a small problem, mostly unnoticeable through another cab, may well sound more up front with the barefaced. It's not a bad thing....just a little more unforgiving, it of course means you get a much more natural and transparent sound

Si[/quote]

You are spot on mate

[alexclaber]

The one thing that still puzzles me is that this problem didn't show up with the Acme cab - was the mid/high protection bulb blown in it?

Alex

[GreeneKing]

Thank you David, I think my camera is crying out to be used in a minute

Spectors are lovely basses but the output needs to be managed.

[davidmpires]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='618782' date='Oct 6 2009, 05:07 PM']The one thing that still puzzles me is that this problem didn't show up with the Acme cab - was the mid/high protection bulb blown in it?

Alex[/quote]

Same here, but I did use to use both knobs rolled back. But it should be ok, as the guy I sold it too, never complained to me about it, he's a bass chatter just can't remember his name.

Alex thanks again for helping me out with it yesterday, Barefaced too has a great customer service dept.

[alexclaber]

Lowering the pickups is definitely a good idea btw.

Looking at the basic schematic for the F1, the input jack goes straight to a buffer and the gain pot comes after that. So even with the gain turned all the way down then it's possible to clip the input buffer stage with a hot enough signal. The manual states the max input voltage is 15V peak to peak, which is 7.5V peak or 5.3V RMS. As the Tonepump uses a voltage doubler (presumably giving it +9/-9 rails) it might be exceeding 5.3V if the pickups are running hot (high output and close to the strings) and the EQ is giving quite a bit of boost.

Alex

[alexclaber]

[quote name='davidmpires' post='618797' date='Oct 6 2009, 05:15 PM']Same here, but I did use to use both knobs rolled back.[/quote]

You mean you had the midrange and tweeter turned right down?

Alex

[alanbass1]

If the problem only started to exhibit itself with the Barefaced cab then surely that's where you need to look first. The F1 has a gain input to match the output of any bass so I doubt it is a simple case of overloading the amp (I'm making the assumption that you have turned the input gain down on the amp). It might just be that the particular bass/amp/cab combination just doesn't sound right to your ears and therefore one of these components would need to be changed. To be honest, I find my US Spector very much a grinding rock machine and perhaps the Markbass/Barefaced combination is a little too clean/sterile for the bass.

Edited October 6, 2009 by alanbass1

[davidmpires]

Alex I meant I didn't use the attenuator at all, it was on 0, both of them.

Alan I did think that was the case hence me bugging Alex with it yesterday and we did spoke about this some time ago. It's not the first time people complain about the high output of a bass and that's why Spector decided to introduce the trim pot. Unfortunately my 2006 model doesn't have one, but I'm hoping that it will get sorted if I decrease the output of the bass.

For you to have an idea how different both basses are, the t-bass gain goes a little over the middle and the spector a little less than a quarter, so the spector has almost double the output of the t-bass which is by no means quiet. It's quite something when I think about it.

Edited October 6, 2009 by davidmpires

[alexclaber]

There's a few reasons I'm pretty certain it's not the cab. Firstly that the cab has absolutely no problems with the T-Bass+F1 at high volumes. Secondly that this problem is happening at low volumes with the Spector+F1 so it's not power amp clipping or speaker struggling. And also this:

[quote name='davidmpires' post='618762' date='Oct 6 2009, 04:52 PM']I remeber not being able to use a zoom b2 because of the high output of the spector, and when recording for Alex using my H4 and the markbass the output was too much as well.[/quote]

[quote name='alanbass1' post='618883' date='Oct 6 2009, 06:51 PM']If the problem only started to exhibit itself with the Barefaced cab then surely that's where you need to look first. The F1 has a gain input to match the output of any bass so I doubt it is a simple case of overloading the amp (I'm making the assumption that you have turned the input gain down on the amp).[/quote]

As I said earlier there there is an input buffer before the gain control - hit it with enough voltage and it will distort.

There's also a possibility that the Spector preamp is running out of headroom due to the pickups being too high.

I'd want to have a listen through the F1's headphone out - take the speaker out of the equation.

Alex

[davidmpires]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='618985' date='Oct 6 2009, 08:29 PM']I'd want to have a listen through the F1's headphone out - take the speaker out of the equation.

Alex[/quote]

Just listen to the recordings I sent to you.That's the di of the F1 going straight into the zoom H4.

I too am certain that the problem lies with the spector. the voltage of the spector is 18v although it only uses an 9v battery. If the markbass bass only takes 15v, you have 3v to spare, enough for clipping.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='davidmpires' post='618990' date='Oct 6 2009, 08:34 PM']Just listen to the recordings I sent to you.That's the di of the F1 going straight into the zoom H4.[/quote]

They seem to be ok. But is there any EQ on them?

[quote name='davidmpires' post='618990' date='Oct 6 2009, 08:34 PM']I too am certain that the problem lies with the spector. the voltage of the spector is 18v although it only uses an 9v battery. If the markbass bass only takes 15v, you have 3v to spare, enough for clipping.[/quote]

15V should be ample headroom with a sensibly configured 18V preamp. But I don't consider trying to add tons of gain with onboard electronics a sensible configuration!

Does the problem occur with both pickups? What EQ settings make it worst?

Alex

[davidmpires]

No the recordings were done without the aid of EQ.

Yeah the problem is with both pickups, bass and mid boost make it even worse mostly mids.