Faithless Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 (edited) So, I've been offered to assist gospel choir, and the thing is.. that I know practically nothing about gospel, don't count those Youtube videos with all that bassy mumbling - nice, fast & flashy basslines and so on I mean, I've tried to do those excercises, taken from Tommy Brown and other famous gospel bassists, but it seemed pointless, when it [i]actually [/i]comes to [b]how [/b]gospel bassline should be created, how it should act with drums, and stuff.. I mean, are there any decent videos, methods/schools, where people talk about gospel basslines and their conjunction with drums, and so on? To add more, what would be good gospel tunes to start from, any bassists worth checking out? (I'm afraid GospelChops and Janek Gwizdala won't work here.. ) Mind you, I'm not a beginner, so, fast or a bit more [i]techy[/i] lines aren't the problem, but, the thing, I'm going for, is [i]understanding [/i]of bassline in gospel.. Share your thoughts, Faith Edited October 11, 2009 by Faithless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 The keys players are going to do WEIRD things over the top of what you play. Don't follow them - stick to the changes. The stuff they do is awesome but only works if you play what you're supposed to play. In terms of changes, expect your standard blues and jazz changes. I-III-VI-II-V-I and variations thereof. Don't do anything flashy at all. Just play the tunes. Leave all the flash to the singers, keys player and occasionally the drummer. Rhythmically, you shouldn't get anything apart from standard 4/4 with a back beat (with varying degrees of funkiness) and swingy 6/8. Stand as close the keys player as possible 'cos he'll inevitably be the musical director and understand your role better than you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Nobody else smirking a little at "Faithless" asking for advice on gospel music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='623672' date='Oct 12 2009, 02:15 AM']Nobody else smirking a little at "Faithless" asking for advice on gospel music? [/quote] Glad it's not just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 Thanks, The Funk, that was very helpful, mate [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='623672' date='Oct 12 2009, 04:15 AM']Nobody else smirking a little at "Faithless" asking for advice on gospel music? [/quote] Am I missing anything here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 [quote name='Faithless' post='623711' date='Oct 12 2009, 08:22 AM']Am I missing anything here?[/quote] Gospel= typically music of faith Faithless= typically without faith Just slightly ironic, nothing personal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I can't speak for the standard approach to playing Gospel although if I ended up sinking into a mire of easy listening praise music, I'd probably feel inclined to crucify myself on the spot. The interesting thing about gospel is that its possible to nail the roots but there's room to light up some of the chordal inversions with tasty fills sometimes. If you can nail the roots and use them to illustrate how the chords are changing in a melodic but groovy way so much the better. Very much a case of learning the ropes, then forgetting it and going with your heart once you've totally understood the song. I'm not going to make any apologies for yet again posting this clip of Sharay Reed because he completely does my head in. Seems like there are a few more bits of his work on youtube in the last 6 months so I'm going to go and watch them too. Its not necessarily something that can be taught but something you feel. If you can't feel Sharay then there's something wrong somewhere. He's managing to totally nail the groove of the song and yet still expand his playing harmonically. This vid is an absolute master class in bass playing IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 'Ave it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='623723' date='Oct 12 2009, 08:39 AM']I'm not going to make any apologies for yet again posting this clip of Sharay Reed because he completely does my head in. [/quote] That, my friends, is what feelin' it is all about. Marvellous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 [quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='623715' date='Oct 12 2009, 10:25 AM']Gospel= typically music of faith Faithless= typically without faith Just slightly ironic, nothing personal [/quote] Thanks for clarity.. Although, I'd like to ask again, if anyone could comment a bit more on gospel tips and tricks, chaps, you're welcome.. Today, I've got a bunch of gospel recordings, and a few gospel basslines with functions, I'll try to dig it out, we'll see, what happens.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Errrr.. first believe in God.... I wasn't aware that 'Gospel' had to be a style anymore. I thought it was about content not genres and that you can have Christian folk music, Christian Metal, Christian Funk, Christian Bale (oops! What is he doing in here).... I always think of 'Gospel' as an attitude not a genre. What do I know? Heathen bustard.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 The BEST bit of funky Gospel music here The little run at 1:11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Serious question... is 'gospel' that specific a genre? I thought it was just soul, blues & R'n'B? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='624169' date='Oct 12 2009, 04:58 PM']Serious question... is 'gospel' that specific a genre? I thought it was just soul, blues & R'n'B?[/quote] When I plalyed in a gospel quoir that was pretty much my approach, and thus the words "what would Jamerson do?" were always in my mind. Worked really well for me. That and a bit of J.J Burnel, anyway. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='624165' date='Oct 12 2009, 04:52 PM']Errrr.. first believe in God.... I wasn't aware that 'Gospel' had to be a style anymore. I thought it was about content not genres and that you can have Christian folk music, Christian Metal, Christian Funk, Christian Bale (oops! What is he doing in here).... I always think of 'Gospel' as an attitude not a genre. What do I know? Heathen bustard....[/quote] gospel..the good news.. god spel i played christian worship bands from 1991 to today its all gospel...some folks just sing..some jive...the song is the same the chords are the same its in the interpretation and the spirit its played in amazing grace (1779) is gospel ...if you play it that way and its just as fresh and the words still have meaning what is termed gospel sometimes is negro spiritual...completely different imho.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share Posted October 17, 2009 (edited) I've got almost all the sheets with chords and stuff, and, here's the interesting thing.. As you may know, a lotta gospel music comes 'from' such keys like Eb, and other keys that have even 6 flats (Gb/F#).. So, as I know, gospel bassists solve this problem by detuning the bass half-step. But the problem is, that there are few tunes, where A part goes in 'ordinary' [b]Gb[/b], but the B Part goes from [b]C[/b], you know what I'm sayin'? So, if tune my bass to Eb, in a few tunes I'll face such 'strange' chords, like C#, E# and such.. I'm not saying, that I'm not familiar with them, but, it may feel a bit 'unpleasant'.. What do you, guys, do with 'gospel bass' tuning? Edited October 17, 2009 by Faithless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 [quote name='Faithless' post='628601' date='Oct 17 2009, 11:40 AM']....As you may know, a lotta gospel music comes 'from' such keys like Eb, and other keys that have even 6 flats (Gb/F#)....[/quote] Unaccompanied singers can sing in any key! Or it might have been arranged and written up by a piano player used to playing with horns. Use a 5 string bass and you've got it covered, or just play an octave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 I'm having Gospel Chops with a honey and mustard glaze with a Satan salad for tea. Gospel is not a style of bass playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 If you are a Christian, then let Jesus help give you the groove, get lost in the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velvetkevorkian Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 [quote name='Faithless' post='628601' date='Oct 17 2009, 11:40 AM']I've got almost all the sheets with chords and stuff, and, here's the interesting thing.. As you may know, a lotta gospel music comes 'from' such keys like Eb, and other keys that have even 6 flats (Gb/F#).. So, as I know, gospel bassists solve this problem by detuning the bass half-step. But the problem is, that there are few tunes, where A part goes in 'ordinary' [b]Gb[/b], but the B Part goes from [b]C[/b], you know what I'm sayin'? So, if tune my bass to Eb, in a few tunes I'll face such 'strange' chords, like C#, E# and such.. I'm not saying, that I'm not familiar with them, but, it may feel a bit 'unpleasant'.. What do you, guys, do with 'gospel bass' tuning? [/quote] I wouldn't detune if I can avoid it. Having to transpose it all an extra half step is going to cause more trouble than playing it as its written, IMO. Its an extra complication that will just get in the way of what you're playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamapirate Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 Check out Todd Lawton and TobyMac diverse city band if you need some inspiration! Simple stuff... some of it, but really effective! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted October 17, 2009 Author Share Posted October 17, 2009 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' post='628611' date='Oct 17 2009, 02:01 PM']Unaccompanied singers can sing in any key! Or it might have been arranged and written up by a piano player used to playing with horns. Use a 5 string bass and you've got it covered, or just play an octave up.[/quote] Yup, I'm 5string player, so notes aren't the problem itself.. [quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='628664' date='Oct 17 2009, 02:59 PM']I wouldn't detune if I can avoid it. Having to transpose it all an extra half step is going to cause more trouble than playing it as its written, IMO. Its an extra complication that will just get in the way of what you're playing.[/quote] Well, I thought, it'd be easier to 'transpose' those flats, as, moreover, most of songs clearly [i]stay [/i]in such keys, like Eb/Gb, only one or two has those damn changes to C and such.. Although, I'll give it a thought to what you're saying.. [quote name='steve-soar' post='628638' date='Oct 17 2009, 02:28 PM']If you are a Christian, then let Jesus help give you the groove, get lost in the music.[/quote] Thanks, for your input, Stevie, brilliant as always.. Edited October 17, 2009 by Faithless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 17, 2009 Share Posted October 17, 2009 [quote name='Faithless' post='628720' date='Oct 17 2009, 01:53 PM']....Well, I thought, it'd be easier to 'transpose' those flats, as, moreover, most of songs clearly [i]stay [/i]in such keys, like Eb/Gb, only one or two has those damn changes to C and such....[/quote] When you look at a neck do you see a bunch of notes or are they grouped in certain ways? It's valid to think in "shapes" when you play. It's easier to play in "odd" keys if you think in "shapes" and just move the shape on the neck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 You may get some more insight from here [url="http://www.musicademy.com"]http://www.musicademy.com[/url] "Outstanding practical Worship [music] training" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 (edited) I played bass for a large gospel choir for a few years. Really got my ear and chops in shape. Re: detuning - don't bother. I don't want to use the word 'cheating', but there's no easy 'fix' to odd keys, you just gotta get used to it. You'll be a better musician for it. Re: tips... 1. Think about the groove - if you're joining an established choir/band, listen for a few minutes to what the rest of the musicians and the singers are doing with the song, and 'feel' what they're doing with it. You'll obviously put your own spin on it to some extent (inevitable) but bands in choirs are there to support the choir and the feel of the song. There may be odd pushes, unusual rhythms, but try to find the underlying groove and stick with it regardless of note choice. 2. Note choices: harmony/chords, modes, chromatics - Gospel has evolved over the years and taken in elements from other genres so I can't give really specific advice on this without hearing the choir in question. My general suggestion is try to improve your understanding of harmony beyond standard triads, try to appreciate the sound of extensions/tensions and four note chords of all types (guitar helps). It's more important to 'get' this from an aural perspective rather than a purely intellectual perspective, i.e. to know a particular chord evokes a certain sound ('ah-hah, i recognise that chord cos it has that <<insert adjective here>> sound, i Know what to play over that'). Try to work out the key note(s) in particular chords that contribute/are responsible for the feel of a given song at a given point. Once you have a strong appreciation of harmony (as it relates to gospel), try also to apply modes and chromatics to see how you can use them to complement the changes in gospel. It sounds like a lot, but start small and work your way up. 3. Taste - As with all bands, music is as much about what you don't play as what you do play. A lot of contemporary gospel music (backing the choir) uses a lot of rests, space, and alternating interplay between instruments and the choir to give the music a much more dynamic ebb and flow than constant intensity at the same level. This is totally up to you, but don't be afraid to leave space and be authoritative and tasteful with the notes you do play. Hope this helps, feel free to ask/PM if anything is unclear or you have any more questions. Mark Edited October 21, 2009 by mcgraham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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