thunderbird13 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 I’ve been jamming with a guitarist for about 7 or weeks now in his flat and last night was the first time we went to a rehearsal studio and went loud with a live drummer. I was really looking forward to it and the sound was good BUT what really annoyed me was that I kept making mistakes to the extent where we had to start the songs again , obviously thius made me feel like a real idiot. The material is based on Hawkwind and Pink Floyd with a bit of punk energy so there’s lots of noodling and soloing going on. Its just that after playing this stuff with the guitarist and at home by myself I felt that I should have this stuff under my fingers but last night it wasn’t there No point in being too hard on myself but there is a small voice in my head saying that perhaps this material is too complicated for me and I should find a band doing something simpler. So I suppose the question which I would be interested in your opinion on is how long do I give it ? Bearing in mind there is one informal rehearsal with the guitarist every week, a proper band practice once a month and I’m practicing by myself about ½ hour a night 4 nights a week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 You'll be fine, but play [b]through [/b]mistakes, don't stop and go back to the beginning, you completely lose context. Playing the songs with the band over and over is the best way to get them down, keep at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 When you practise alone at home, what are you playing along to? Do you have reference tracks to play with, or is it just your own bassline? If the latter, then take a little mp3 recorder along to band practice and record the rehearsal. It will be easier to identify where you're going wrong AND you'll be able to practise on your own by playing with the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='624868' date='Oct 13 2009, 12:26 PM']You'll be fine, but play [b]through [/b]mistakes, don't stop and go back to the beginning, you completely lose context. Playing the songs with the band over and over is the best way to get them down, keep at it.[/quote] +1 - learn to do this. A quick recovery could mean many of your mistakes matter less to your bandmates (and audience) then you think. It's something I've leaned to be GREAT at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieC Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='624885' date='Oct 13 2009, 12:40 PM']+1 - learn to do this. A quick recovery could mean many of your mistakes matter less to your bandmates (and audience) then you think. It's something I've leaned to be GREAT at. [/quote] You make mistakes??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieC Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 As far as learning new material goes, it depends on the situation. I'm in two very different bands, one 5-piece playing a range of covers, and the other a trio playing original rock. In the covers band, we'll try a new song a couple of times - if it sounds like it's not coming together we'll ruthlessly ditch it. As for the originals band, we're just about to gig this friday for the first time after about 20 practices each lasting 3 hours. AND we've only learnt 10 songs so far although the guitarist/singer has a lot more than that in his file! Anybody else follow the same route? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted October 13, 2009 Author Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='silddx' post='624868' date='Oct 13 2009, 12:26 PM']You'll be fine, but play [b]through [/b]mistakes, don't stop and go back to the beginning, you completely lose context. Playing the songs with the band over and over is the best way to get them down, keep at it.[/quote] Cheers for that mate but the mistakes are alway in the same place and it tends to throw everyone else off [quote name='Happy Jack' post='624880' date='Oct 13 2009, 12:33 PM']When you practise alone at home, what are you playing along to? Do you have reference tracks to play with, or is it just your own bassline? If the latter, then take a little mp3 recorder along to band practice and record the rehearsal. It will be easier to identify where you're going wrong AND you'll be able to practise on your own by playing with the band.[/quote] The band very kindly made 2 cds for me - one with bass and one without bass - I really have no excuse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='StevieC' post='624921' date='Oct 13 2009, 01:12 PM']You make mistakes???[/quote] Sometimes I don't... [quote name='thunderbird13' post='624921' date='Oct 13 2009, 01:12 PM']Cheers for that mate but the mistakes are alway in the same place and it tends to throw everyone else off[/quote] Your band need to learn to play through other people's mistakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 There's mistakes and there's mistakes. A couple of duff notes shouldn't be enough to throw our bandmates. Christ, I've been to plenty of big, big gigs where the singer has been flatter than Holland and the band have had to grin and bear it and get on the with the set. My approach to learning is this Get a CD, MP3 of the song and listen to it half a dozen times Write down the song structure Work out the key, if indeed it is in key Work out the riffs Finally, work on any fills, tricky runs, etc.... If you have to go back to your bandmates and ask them to show you a bit, it looks a damn sight more impressive if you've sorted out 95% of the material. Finally, once you have the song down you can look at embellishing your parts. As for your bandmates, they can help you and help themselves by playing through the material really slowly. I'm a firm believer in playing through stuff extra slow. It highlights mistakes in your playing that can get masked by speed. I auditioned for one band that kept screwing up a section in a song. This was my first audition and I had the part nailed, but they kept mucking it up, mainly because of the drummer and rhythm guitarist. I told them to slow it right down so we could nail it and they got the right hump - the drummer even said it wasn't possible to play the part slowly. I politely turned them down. I've mentioned on numerous occasions that one of the handiest tools you can ever purchase is a personal effects processor like a Korg Pandora. They encourage you to pick up your instrument and practice whenever possible and you can work on new songs without disturbing anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 yeh you and the rest of the band really need to be able to play through mistakes. There's always the chance of one of you making a mistake and if you have to stop and go back to the start you will all look tw*ts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 Never start again, no matter how painful it is. Major technical problems and nerves meant we fluffed the start of the first song of our recent Bloodstock set. It was painful and you could see that everyone was desperate to stop and start again but we kept going. By the second verse we had pulled it together and the few slightly bemused faces in the audience quickly forgot about the mistakes. If we'd have restarted the song it would have looked awful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 As everyone has said, play through the mistakes. If the drummer drops a stick, the guitarist treads on the wrong pedal and cuts off the sound or you cock up, it's all the same... keep going. On the other point... get the numbers right! It's not the end of the world and it's something you get better at, but if you're still getting them wrong then you're not practising or concentrating enough. Raise your game don't settle for something that's easier to play! At the end of the day you should remember that, audiences notice the good notes, only musicians notice the bad notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spike Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='thunderbird13' post='624921' date='Oct 13 2009, 01:12 PM']Cheers for that mate but the mistakes are alway in the same place and it tends to throw everyone else off[/quote] If the mistakes are always in the same place it's worth practising just that section of the song with the whole band. Start a few bars before where you make the mistake ( or at the beginning of a verse or chorus if you need a reference point ) and repeat that section over and over again until you nail it. Then play the whole song. We do this alot in my band and it really works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='chris_b' post='625092' date='Oct 13 2009, 03:26 PM']At the end of the day you should remember that, audiences notice the good notes, only musicians notice the bad notes.[/quote] Thats a great quote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 You could try what I do. Shout at your hands. ' COME ON HANDS, PLEASE' Then comes the unedifying pleading with my hands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='chris_b' post='625092' date='Oct 13 2009, 03:26 PM']At the end of the day you should remember that, audiences notice the good notes, only musicians notice the bad notes.[/quote] That's made my day that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 (edited) Remember it's not just your competence in delivering the notes in the right order. It's about working with new people. This can initially be a bit disconcerting - e.g. the drummer suddenly looks at you and nods. Christ! What's that mean? Whoops - distraction - there goes the bass line. In an ideal world, I'd prefer to spend the first few rehearsals working on a severely limited number of very easy songs while people bed in together and get to know each others musical characteristics, etc. Then [i]slowly[/i] expand the material, adding a couple of new ones - in detail - each week. How much do you need to practice / rehearse? In the early stages (and depending on your objectives), I'd hope for at least a weekly band practice and a weekly gtr jam till everyone's comfortable together. As for my own parts, ideally I run through the whole set on my own at least once every couple of days. Anything that needs specific work gets a serious kicking for an hour or so - start slow, speed up, break up into constituent parts, phrases etc. YMMV...but I'm sure you'll be fine. Keep plugging away at the material till you've nailed it. Edited October 13, 2009 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdgrsr400 Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 [quote name='thunderbird13' post='624860' date='Oct 13 2009, 12:10 PM']I’ve been jamming with a guitarist for about 7 or weeks now in his flat and last night was the first time we went to a rehearsal studio and went loud with a live drummer. ...[/quote] Well the thing I'd pick up on is perhaps you need to spend time jamming with the drummer, not [just] the guitarist. You two are the rhythm section. If the rhythm section is wonky the whole ensemble will fall apart: whereas if it's tight then the soloists can drift in and out without problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul_C Posted October 13, 2009 Share Posted October 13, 2009 once you get used to things you'll settle into it and make fewer mistakes - if it falls down at the same place then you're probably tensing as you approach it (and the others might be too) and making things worse, so either play something simpler for a while until you can all get through the song, or spend a lot more than 1/2 hour a night practicing until it becomes second nature to play it I've recently been depping for a band I played in last year and have done half a dozen gigs with no rehearsal whatsoever, just run through them a day or so before the gig to refresh my memory and away we go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 You say there's a lot of noodling and such. Does that mean the song structures are fixed, flexible or improvised? If the song structures are flexible or improvised, you might pretty much get to set them yourself, if the guitarist and drummer are soloing all over the place. And if it's the guitarist who sets them, then listen to him for any changes while you're playing. You can only really practise that with the drummer there too. If each section is quite complex and the song structure is flexible or improvised, don't be too hard on yourself for getting lost from time to time. If the structures are set, you have no excuse! Write down and memorise how many bars there are in each section, then count the bars as you're playing. If there are vocals as well, I don't see how you can get lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I find it weird you're having no trouble playing the same stuff at home. This is weird but you might consider that you're not the one messing up. Maybe it's the other two? I've had that before, especially on drums where i'm playing the exact right thing but the other two guys keep stopping in the same place. I've always had to change what i'm playing to fit them. Just a thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stylon Pilson Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 [quote name='cheddatom' post='625776' date='Oct 14 2009, 10:16 AM']I find it weird you're having no trouble playing the same stuff at home. This is weird but you might consider that you're not the one messing up. Maybe it's the other two?[/quote] This thought had occurred to me as well. Maybe not necessarily that they are messing up, exactly, but they are playing something subtly different which is interfering with your cues. S.P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whimsy23 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Just keep at it would be my advice! My new band... we've been practicing a few times a month since about June and we're just putting the finishing touches to our 5 song set One of our songs is about 3 minutes long and I counted 18 different riffs/parts in it... it took me a while to learn all that and I pick things up pretty quickly. Lord knows how many times we've had to stop songs half way through, play from halfway through, play specific bits, talk through bits that need changing etc etc We can see the light at the end of the tunnel though... it'll all be worthwhile in the end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 [quote name='cheddatom' post='625776' date='Oct 14 2009, 10:16 AM']I find it weird you're having no trouble playing the same stuff at home. This is weird but you might consider that you're not the one messing up. Maybe it's the other two? I've had that before, especially on drums where i'm playing the exact right thing but the other two guys keep stopping in the same place. I've always had to change what i'm playing to fit them. Just a thought![/quote] Some years ago i was playing in a band and we were trying to learn I think it was a doobie brothers tune although I cant for the life of me remember which one. There was a stop and a drum fill where the drummer went round the toms. we couldnt get the re start right and we said to the drummer, John you are putting in 1 fill too many round the toms, the drummer on the record does 1 less than you do. His response Perhaps Ive got more tom toms than he has Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Thanks for the advive guys on reflection I think I see where my problem is. Due ot the nature of the music its flexible so although I might learn something as 16 bars during rehearsal it might extend to 20 bars and so I'm getting confused between sticking to what I have learnt at home and what I'm hearing in rehearsal. I'm going to agree some cues with the rest of them and then then write them down and use them as markers for when to change. Anyway I've just had an email from the guitarist saying that he thinks its going really well , I hope thats not the dreaded vote of confidence !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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