strings and string tension

[john_the_bass]

something i've never really paid much attention to, but how much variation is there between strings and string tension?
Not just in variance of the wind (ie flat vs round), but across brands so how much difference in tension is there between two sets of nickel wounds of the same guage, made by different companies - or even nickel vs stainless?

What other affect does the tension have other than stress on the neck and how flexible the string feels to play?
Just wondering really, especially if i want to be switching string brands to find one i really like without having to adjust my bass every time i change the strings?
I understand that less winds = more tension, is this true as well?

[Lfalex v1.1]

The need to adjust your bass every time you change brands is limited, and only small changes need be made [i]provided[/i] that you're not changing gauge!
Assuming that you're using the same bass all the time for comparison purposes, all the other variables such as break angles etc. will be fixed.

Another effect of tension for you. Higher tension reduces the size of the vibration envelope of the string for a given mechanical input. This, in turn may facilitate a lower action as the vibrating string is less likely to strike the frets than one of a lower tension.

When you say "less winds= more tension", am I right in thinking that winds refers to the number of turns around the machine head? If so, then, yes that is partially true.
When you strike a string, it stretches along its entire length, albeit at different rates at different locations on the instrument. The string stretches between the points at which it is anchored, namely;

The ball-end (at the bridge - Well, usually)
The point at which the string is bent as it leaves the slot in the machine head for the first winding/turn

This means that the length of string wrapped around the machine head can still exhibit some elastcity. Increasing the length of said section lengthens the string and increases the length to which the system can stretch before breaking.

This also imparts a softer feel to the string. Decreasing the number of turns around the machine head gives a tauter feel and is useful in slap-orientated instruments, and those which may possess a "floppy" B string.

Naturally, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

You gain tension, but sacrifice tuning stability, increase the likelihood of string breakage, and there might be repercussions in terms of string life.
Of course, if you cut it too fine, strings may jump off the machine heads completely!

I gather the recommended minimum is [i]around [/i] two turns.

[R,5,R,5...]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='5584' date='May 24 2007, 10:04 AM']The need to adjust your bass every time you change brands is limited, and only small changes need be made [i]provided[/i] that you're not changing gauge!
Assuming that you're using the same bass all the time for comparison purposes, all the other variables such as break angles etc. will be fixed.

Another effect of tension for you. Higher tension reduces the size of the vibration envelope of the string for a given mechanical input. This, in turn may facilitate a lower action as the vibrating string is less likely to strike the frets than one of a lower tension.

When you say "less winds= more tension", am I right in thinking that winds refers to the number of turns around the machine head? If so, then, yes that is partially true.
When you strike a string, it stretches along its entire length, albeit at different rates at different locations on the instrument. The string stretches between the points at which it is anchored, namely;

The ball-end (at the bridge - Well, usually)
The point at which the string is bent as it leaves the slot in the machine head for the first winding/turn

This means that the length of string wrapped around the machine head can still exhibit some elastcity. Increasing the length of said section lengthens the string and increases the length to which the system can stretch before breaking.

This also imparts a softer feel to the string. Decreasing the number of turns around the machine head gives a tauter feel and is useful in slap-orientated instruments, and those which may possess a "floppy" B string.

Naturally, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

You gain tension, but sacrifice tuning stability, increase the likelihood of string breakage, and there might be repercussions in terms of string life.
Of course, if you cut it too fine, strings may jump off the machine heads completely!

I gather the recommended minimum is [i]around [/i] two turns.[/quote]


Very interesting stuff and well explained -- thank you. So going from what you say, the claim that Fodera and others make -- that lengthening the overall string length while keeping the same 'speaking' portion or scale increases tension -- is actually bollocks. If anything, tension will decrease (by a smallish amount in any case). I always thought that was the case, but now I know why.

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='Lfalex v1.1' post='5584' date='May 24 2007, 10:04 AM']When you say "less winds= more tension", am I right in thinking that winds refers to the number of turns around the machine head? If so, then, yes that is partially true.
When you strike a string, it stretches along its entire length, albeit at different rates at different locations on the instrument. The string stretches between the points at which it is anchored, namely;[/quote]

yeah i was referring to the number of winds around the post.
That makes a lot of sense, however i have heard once or twice that flats and even pressurewound strings have more tension and have more tension in them than roundwound strings. I'm really interested from the point of view that if I was to change my 45-105 rounds to a set of 45-105 flats for example, is there any more tension which is likely to pull on the neck more and as a result require adjustment to straighten the neck a touch? or if i use a hex core normally and switch to a set with a round core?

[Lfalex v1.1]

I switched the Hex-cored (Rotosounds) on my Squier 70's VMJazz for DR Fat Beams of the same gauge (round-cored) without having to adjust the truss-rod or action. Intonation needed doing because of the extra mass of the strings in this instance - They pressurewind a .108 down to a .105.
Round cores are a lot softer in my experience.

Can't speak for flats. Never used them or looked into their physical behaviour.

[Bushmaster]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='5288' date='May 23 2007, 07:16 PM']but how much variation is there between strings and string tension?[/quote]

Quite some, I'd say. <flurry of understatement>

[quote]Not just in variance of the wind (ie flat vs round), but across brands so how much difference in tension is there between two sets of nickel wounds of the same guage, made by different companies - or even nickel vs stainless?[/quote]

Actually the most decisive parameter for objectively measurable tension is the ratio of masses of core vs. windings.

[quote]What other affect does the tension have other than stress on the neck and how flexible the string feels to play?[/quote]

Obviously two different things. Subjective feel/flexibility for the most part is determined by the core. It makes little sense to go with too smallish diameters, though, as it renders strings unduly prone to breakage.

Of course, the stiffness of flatwounds is brought about by the flatwire (which also comes in most diverse qualities) obstructing string vibration to a more or lesser degree.

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='5644' date='May 24 2007, 01:15 PM']That makes a lot of sense, however i have heard once or twice that flats and even pressurewound strings have more tension and have more tension in them than roundwound strings.[/quote]

Well, they have more mass out there. But this isn't a hard and fixed rule. E.g. Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Bass Flat Wound is a most delicate string. If you want to have actual numbers, specifications can be found e.g. on their website as well as D'Addario's.

[quote]or if i use a hex core normally and switch to a set with a round core?[/quote]

Actually the round core renders the overall mass a little bit higher as there are no pockets under the windings as w/ hexcores.

As in all, I wouldn't let myself be influenced by such merely technical considerations. I'd choose strings primarily for their sound, though they should be comfortably playable, too.