Fender P-Bass s/plate - Problems but no refund from Absolute Guitars in Bristol.

[xilddx]

Here's another of those, "what are my rights" threads

I bought a Fender Precision '62 RI scratchplate from Absolute Guitars in Bristol. It has a couple of issues. My email and the response explains all.

What are my rights here please? Indeed, do I have any?

----------------------------------------------------------------

Hi guys,

Thanks for sending me the Fender '62 RI Precision dark tort pickguard so quickly. Much appreciated.

However, there are some issues with it. Firstly, when I came to remove the protective film, the adhesive on most of the film had melted onto the pickguard. I have bought numerous new Fender pickguards and this is the first time I have come across this. This adhesive was extremely difficult to remove, necessitating an acetone-free solvent which removed it eventually after about 20 minutes of effort. I then had to use an automotive polishing compound to get the PG shiny again. As if this wasn't enough, when I came to install it, the PG does not properly fit my 1996 Fender Japan '62 RI Precision. Although the 13 holes line up almost perfectly, the electronics cavity near the output jack socket is not fully covered by the pickguard, leaving a gap of about 4mm x 15mm along the iside edge. I can supply a photo if needs be.

I have all the original packaging and I would like to know if you have come across these issues before, and if you are prepared to exchange it or refund my costs if I send the pickguard back to you.

My thanks and best wishes,
Nigel

[b][u]THE RESPONSE[/u][/b]

Hi Nigel

My apologies but we can’t refund or exchange this as the film has been removed and you have attempted to repair the fault.

We are always happy to accept returns on damages but we can not accept them after they have been repaired (or attempted to be repaired) as we can not then return them to Fender as the warranty is then voided. We are also always happy to accept returns that don’t fit or are the wrong colour etc. but this must be in the original packaging with the film left on (as stated in our policy).

Apologies we can’t help but we would be unable to either resell it or return it to Fender for a replacement.

Regards
Chris

Absolute Guitars
[url="http://www.absolute-guitars.co.uk/"]http://www.absolute-guitars.co.uk/[/url]

[Musicman20]

Oww Nigel! Im also annoyed this hasnt gone right as I was looking forward to the modded version!

I think you have every right to send it back, and I cannot believe they have tried to 'get out of it'. Its not like an £800 bass....its a pickguard. Why they cant help out is beyond me!

I think a firm phonecall is in order.

Anyone else?

[Zombywoof]

Hmmm not sure you've got a leg to stand on as you attempted to repair it, but then again, the plate doesn't fit so it not fit for purpose. Have a look at this....

Sale of Goods to a Consumer
In England and Wales the sale of goods is governed by the Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended by the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 and the Sale of Goods (Amendment) Act 1995 ("SGA 1979").
Duties of the Parties

It is the duty of the seller to deliver the goods and of a buyer to accept and pay for them in accordance with the terms of the contract. Thus the seller must be ready and willing to give possession of the goods in exchange for the purchase price and the buyer must be ready and willing to pay for the goods. These duties are fundamental and failure by either party to perform them allows the innocent party to cancel the contract and sue for damages. The duties of the parties are further defined by the terms of the contract and terms, which can be implied by law.
Contractual Terms

Express terms, are oral or written terms agreed between the parties. Often express terms are a seller's standard Terms and Conditions, which are incorporated into contracts for the sale of goods. In consumer sales, should a Company wish to rely on their standard terms and conditions, they should ensure that these are brought to the buyer's attention, agreed (in particular if they are onerous to the buyer) and are reasonable.
Implied Terms

Implied into all contracts for the sale of goods whether the normal purchase from a retailer by the consumer or within commercial sales are the following terms:
•That the seller has the right to sell the goods and that they are free from encumbrances or charges and that the buyer will enjoy quiet possession.
•That the goods will correspond to their description.
•That the goods will be of satisfactory quality
•That where the buyer makes known the purpose of the purchase, that the goods will be fit for that purpose - or fit for the normal purpose.
•That where goods are sold by sample, they will comply with that sample.
All the above are classed as conditions and any breach of them, for example, in the sale of defective goods, would amount to a fundamental breach of contract and could entitle the purchaser to reject the goods and seek reimbursement of the purchase price or claim damages.

Sellers Duties and Buyers Remedies

Sellers Duties

•Transfer possession by delivering goods in accordance with the terms of the contract i.e. on time and at the place agreed or if no agreement, at the sellers place of business and at a reasonable time.
•Sell satisfactory quality goods, which are fit for the purpose that they were purchased for.
•Sell goods, which correspond with their description or the sample used.
Buyer's Remedies

Should the seller fail to comply with his duties either those expressly stated or implied by law, the Buyer would have a right to recourse. The remedies available and set out below are in addition to any remedies they may have been provided by a commercial guarantee or warranties.
•Rejection and termination of the contract.
•Damages.
•Refusal to perform own obligations.
•Specific performance of sellers obligations.
It should be noted that the duties and remedies can differ from case to case. The rejection of goods and termination of the contract, thereby entitling a reimbursement of the purchase price paid is only available in certain cases and can be lost due to a number of intervening events. This would leave the buyer with only a remedy in damages.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Difficult. I'm sure you're kicking yourself for not trying it before removing the film.

Is the PG within spec for a US PG? If not (for example if it has shrunk), I'd think you have a case for returning it as faulty. I know a standard USA PG would fit my 1990 MIJ 62RI precision, so maybe the shape changed for later ones? Mine is the model with 70s style tuners, but in nickel.

However if the spec of a '96 MIJ precision is different to that of a USA precision, I don't know if there's much you can do about it unless they said specifically that it would be right for your particular bass.

Edited October 19, 2009 by Jean-Luc Pickguard

[Clarky]

Hi Nigel, I'm afraid that once you repaired it you probably null and voided the warranty and - as for it being fit for purpose - I am sure it is now if you were to try fitting it on a US Precision 62RI. Unfortunately Japanese Fenders do not necessarily have identical scratchplates to their US counterparts. Sorry to say that, if Absolute won't play ball, your only recourse is to sell it and to buy a s/p that fits (safest way would be to send a paper cutout template of your old one to WD or one of the other UK-based s/p manufacturers)

Sorry mate, its a PIA

[xilddx]

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='630441' date='Oct 19 2009, 03:47 PM']Difficult. I'm sure you're kicking yourself for not trying it before removing the film.[/quote]
Classic schoolboy error! I deserve a bit of a kicking for that The original is slightly fatter/stubbier at the jack socket end than the USA 62 RI PG. But the route is slightly too big even for that, the PG covers the route but the screw at the PG point after the jack socket only just hits the wood, it's a poor fit, dodgy routing perhaps?

There's nothing in their returns "policy" about what they mention in the email though.

Thanks for your help so far people, really appreciate it.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Clarky' post='630456' date='Oct 19 2009, 03:59 PM']Hi Nigel, I'm afraid that once you repaired it you probably null and voided the warranty and - as for it being fit for purpose - I am sure it is now if you were to try fitting it on a US Precision 62RI. Unfortunately Japanese Fenders do not necessarily have identical scratchplates to their US counterparts. Sorry to say that, if Absolute won't play ball, your only recourse is to sell it and to buy a s/p that fits (safest way would be to send a paper cutout template of your old one to WD or one of the other UK-based s/p manufacturers)

Sorry mate, its a PIA[/quote]

Sadly, I think you may be right, Clarky. Nice to meet you and your boy on Sat BTW.

Cheers.

[OldGit]

Hang on, you only "repaired" one of the two problems.
You have two here - 1) super sticky film glue and 2) it doesn't fit.
Sure you probably should have tried it before removing the film but .. it still does't fit.
That's a different problem.

Phone call is the way to go.

[Beedster]

[quote name='OldGit' post='630490' date='Oct 19 2009, 04:33 PM']Hang on, you only "repaired" one of the two problems.
You have two here - 1) super sticky film glue and 2) it doesn't fit.
Sure you probably should have tried it before removing the film but .. it still does't fit.
That's a different problem.

Phone call is the way to go.[/quote]

But it looks like it doesn't fit 'cos an MIA as opposed to MIJ guard was ordered? I can see the shop's POV here - you only have to look at sites like WD to realise that you have to know which model, which country and which year you're ordering with Fender pickguards (which is bloody stupid really but that doesn't change anything). If the site you bought it from advertised it as a generic '62 guard you might get a refund, but if they stated MIA when you wanted MIJ, and furthermore you've taken off the film, I guess it's one to put down to experience. It it's any consolation I've probably done the same thing about 5 times! Oh, and you'll probably sell if for close to what you paid on BC anyway
C

Edited October 19, 2009 by Beedster

[stevie]

I'd just say that whether they can get a refund from Fender or resell it is irrelevant and not your problem.

[BassBod]

I should also add that I bought a WD one a few years ago - it was nothing like a good fit, didn't even cover the route around the socket. I'd bought an "identical" one a few years earlier which fitted perfectly. Never any guarantee that these things aren't coming from different suppliers. I would expect a refund based only on the fact it doesn't fit, regardless.

[LukeFRC]

The pick guard is for MIA, you have a different bass. It's your mistake not theirs. Now being a nice shop ( i guess) they probably would have taken it back except for the fact you had been at it with solvent and polish.
The solvent and polish was to solve another problem with glue stuff, on finding this problem you could have returned it as faulty and they would have exchanged it.

[xilddx]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='630646' date='Oct 19 2009, 06:52 PM']The pick guard is for MIA, you have a different bass. It's your mistake not theirs. Now being a nice shop ( i guess) they probably would have taken it back except for the fact you had been at it with solvent and polish.
The solvent and polish was to solve another problem with glue stuff, on finding this problem you could have returned it as faulty and they would have exchanged it.[/quote]
I think I agree, but it didn't say MIA in the shop listing or on the Fender packaging. I should not have removed the plastic film though. I'm impatient and my foolishness got in the way of checking fit first.

I am pissed off it doesn't fit and no info was given about MIA or MIJ.

This thing cost me over £40 with postage.

Anyone want a very lovely Fender '62 RI P-Bass Dark Tort PG for £25? [b]TO FIT A MIA[/b] (no guarantees)

Edited October 19, 2009 by silddx

[LukeFRC]

or don't admit defeat and try and score a second hand p bass body, then a neck of some kind....

[xilddx]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='630991' date='Oct 20 2009, 12:28 AM']or don't admit defeat and try and score a second hand p bass body, then a neck of some kind....[/quote]


What I am going to do is drill a new screw hole and bend that bitch into shape

[steve-soar]

[quote name='silddx' post='631004' date='Oct 20 2009, 12:49 AM']

What I am going to do is drill a new screw hole and bend that bitch into shape [/quote]That's the spirit.

[The Funk]

Come on, you didn't exactly attempt to fix it - you attempted to take off the bloody packaging!

[Geek99]

As a law graduate, I'd say he should have advised them of which model, and which origin, he was intending to fit it to. He would
Then be able to rely on their specialist knowledge. See sale of goods act . The earlirr point about not opening it, or attempting to make it fit, holds water.they do say they would have helped him out if it was intact.

[xilddx]

[quote name='The Funk' post='631033' date='Oct 20 2009, 02:22 AM']Come on, you didn't exactly attempt to fix it - you attempted to take off the bloody packaging![/quote]
Do you think my statutory rights are affected by removing the (defective) protective film and making good the defect by then removing the left over adhesive? Did I have a duty to check correct fit before removing the film?

Thanks.

[Geek99]

You should probably have dryfitted it first , but if it was visibly defective you should have rejected the goods as unfit.
This seems to be what the shop are saying. They can't resell or claim from their supplier if you've 'used' the goods

As I said its best to state which model you need to fit it to.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Geek99' post='631158' date='Oct 20 2009, 10:34 AM']You should probably have dryfitted it first , but if it was visibly defective you should have rejected the goods as unfit.
This seems to be what the shop are saying. They can't resell or claim from their supplier if you've 'used' the goods

As I said its best to state which model you need to fit it to.[/quote]
Fair comment, thanks. However, it was listed as the same model as my bass, ie. '62 RI P-Bass. No country of origin for the intended bass is mentioned on the product or in the seller's web site listing. This is a similar listing on their web site. [url="http://shop.absolute-guitars.co.uk/fender-precision-pickguard---57-gold-anodized-853-p.asp"]http://shop.absolute-guitars.co.uk/fender-...dized-853-p.asp[/url]

Secondly, only by removing the film was the problem with the adhesive made apparent. I should add that the film was not in the expected position, it was mis-aligned by a few millimetres. Now I think about it, is it possible the film could have been removed previously?

[Geek99]

Its fairly common knowledge in these parts that screws for instance are slightly differntly sited based on origin.
For this reason I'd always state CIJ when ordering anything for mine.
Yes you probably should have queried the goods once you noticed anything at all was amiss. That may involve opening the packet first.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Geek99' post='631192' date='Oct 20 2009, 11:02 AM']Its fairly common knowledge in these parts that screws for instance are slightly differntly sited based on origin.
For this reason I'd always state CIJ when ordering anything for mine.[/quote]

Am I expected to know that, as a customer? I really wouldn't have thought so. The screw holes themselves are virtually perfectly aligned.

[Geek99]

That was just an example of the slight differences you might find that make things unsuitable in terms of fit.

There is a section in the SOGA (around s30) about relying on specialist knowledge of the seller. That's why I would state what I expected a part to fit on to.
You then foist the duty on to them to supply something that fits, or to not supply at all.

[OldGit]

They may not be legally required to do anything, however it's daft business these days that doesn't weigh the pros and cons of a situation like this
they'd loose, what £20? and for that they'd have a happy customer telling a few friends what a good shop they are.
Instead they keep their £20 and loads of people will hear how they were inflexible and not good to deal with.

It's a short sighted approach.

A good business would take the hit, learn from this and add a request for information on origin and year for any future sales of this product.