Help with live sound

[ashevans09]

Hello,

I've recently been having problems with my live sound. I'm running a Mesa 400+ into a Matamp 410 and (if it's a big enough venue) an ampeg 410HE. I don't use effects and usually stick with one bass for the whole set (my MTD).

On stage and when practicing in our rehearsal area things are sounding great to my and the bands' ears but apparently front of house bass tone sounds muddy and horrible. Now, I'm pretty sure this isn't a tone problem. I played a non PA gig last night and everyone reckoned the bass sounded good. They said it cut well and rounded the overall sound. In fact, since another bassist used all of my equipment for a couple of songs to begin with I got to hear it too and I thought it sounded great.

All the gigs where there have been comments about bad FOH bass sound have been where the head is DI'd. Is this a sound engineer cock up or would it be worth getting equipment to mic up the rig? And if so, what would be the best mic to go with?

Thanks!

Ash

[Mr. Foxen]

What DI are you using? Do you use drive pedals? Using a big valve head means a fairly important chunk of your tone is fromt he amp and speakers, and the DI is before them. Totally not worth lugging a Mesa about if you are DIing before it. If you are using drive pedals, then a DI, that can also be a problem, they produce lots of nasty highs the speakers in a bass cab won't reproduce, but will come out of the PA, meaning the treble has to be cut, which might be the muddyness to your sound.

Mic up, and give angry looks to a sound man who refuses, or get your own bass specific DI, plenty of Sansamps going.

[ashevans09]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='642519' date='Nov 1 2009, 02:31 PM']What DI are you using? Do you use drive pedals? Using a big valve head means a fairly important chunk of your tone is fromt he amp and speakers, and the DI is before them. Totally not worth lugging a Mesa about if you are DIing before it. If you are using drive pedals, then a DI, that can also be a problem, they produce lots of nasty highs the speakers in a bass cab won't reproduce, but will come out of the PA, meaning the treble has to be cut, which might be the muddyness to your sound.

Mic up, and give angry looks to a sound man who refuses, or get your own bass specific DI, plenty of Sansamps going.[/quote]

Thanks for the response

I'm using the DI out the back of the head itself , and I agree with you! Totally pointless DI'ing beforehand. I hate it when they pull out those little silver behringer DIs then wonder why you get annoyed. If I wanted to go straight into the PA I wouldn't bring a rig! Bah.

Hmm, as for whether going the sansamp or the mic route, I'm tempted to go mic route simply because it's cheaper as far as I'm aware. Would any standard kick drum mic do or would I be wanting to go for something else? Reason I ask is I have one of those Red5 bass drum mics knocking around and they're reasonably well regarded in drum circles so would this do the job?

Ta!

Ash

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

If you're going through the PA then your sound will only be as good as the guy at the FOH. IME most are clueless on how to mix bass. If you want to capture the sound of your speakers you must mic, though FOH guys who really know what they're doing will DI one channel for below 100Hz and mic another for above. But no matter what you use for sourcing it's still all in the hands of the FOH engineer. A good one can make anything sound great, a hack will screw up the works no matter what.

Edited November 1, 2009 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[The Admiral]

[quote name='ashevans09' post='642508' date='Nov 1 2009, 02:07 PM']Hello,

I've recently been having problems with my live sound. I'm running a Mesa 400+ into a Matamp 410 and (if it's a big enough venue) an ampeg 410HE. I don't use effects and usually stick with one bass for the whole set (my MTD).

On stage and when practicing in our rehearsal area things are sounding great to my and the bands' ears but apparently front of house bass tone sounds muddy and horrible. Now, I'm pretty sure this isn't a tone problem. I played a non PA gig last night and everyone reckoned the bass sounded good. They said it cut well and rounded the overall sound. In fact, since another bassist used all of my equipment for a couple of songs to begin with I got to hear it too and I thought it sounded great.

All the gigs where there have been comments about bad FOH bass sound have been where the head is DI'd. Is this a sound engineer cock up or would it be worth getting equipment to mic up the rig? And if so, what would be the best mic to go with?

Thanks!

Ash[/quote]

Some interesting stuff here maybe : [url="http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/news.php?action=view_story&id=9"]http://www.homerecordingconnection.com/new..._story&id=9[/url]

Industry standard (dangerous generalisation I know) is the AKG D112, and engineers I know go with a DI too, so you get a nice sound on stage and they have options for FOH. However, a cloth eared engineer can make a mega rig sound sh*te out front IMHO.

A

[joegarcia]

No idea about the DI on the Mesa I'm afraid but would be surprised if it was of poor quality. What sort of venues are you playing and how would you describe your sound?

If you are only playing small venues (upto about 120 capacity) and are fairly loud on stage it is debatable whether mic'ing is needed as the audience are likely to hear quite a lot of your amp out front anyway.

As for mics suggestions, there are lots of threads about them on here already but I'd personally avoid kick mics like D112's and Beta52a's. These usually scoop out lots of low mids which may sound muddy for kick drums but are generally needed for bass.

I'd go with something with a good low mid and bass response, perhaps with a slight lift around 2/3k. I personally rate the Beyer M88, Sennheiser MD421, Shure SM7b and EV RE20 for bass but I often get great results from an SM57 or Sennheiser 606, particularly if used with a DI to get the low end.

I always think of it as DI for low end and mic for character.