Monitoring on X Factor

[BottomEndian]

Don't usually watch X Factor, but Mrs Endian has done for the last couple of years. It was on tonight as we munched through dinner (still is, I think), and I noticed that I couldn't see IEMs in any of the performers' ears. Fair enough, I thought, there'll be some wedges down front. Waited for the camera to pan... nope. No wedges to be seen.

Then Bon Jovi came on and JBJ did one of the most sexually limp-making vocal performances I've ever heard. Dull and lifeless, like he wasn't really sure of himself (I'm no fan, but the guy should be a pro at this stuff by now). I would've thought he'd have IEMs, but no.

So... does anyone have inside knowledge of how the performers actually hear what they or the backing tracks/band are doing in the X Factor studio? If there's inadequate monitoring, it's no wonder they're so often out of tune and unsure.

[AM1]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='642799' date='Nov 1 2009, 08:35 PM']Don't usually watch X Factor, but Mrs Endian has done for the last couple of years. It was on tonight as we munched through dinner (still is, I think), and I noticed that I couldn't see IEMs in any of the performers' ears. Fair enough, I thought, there'll be some wedges down front. Waited for the camera to pan... nope. No wedges to be seen.

Then Bon Jovi came on and JBJ did one of the most sexually limp-making vocal performances I've ever heard. Dull and lifeless, like he wasn't really sure of himself (I'm no fan, but the guy should be a pro at this stuff by now). I would've thought he'd have IEMs, but no.

So... does anyone have inside knowledge of how the performers actually hear what they or the backing tracks/band are doing in the X Factor studio? If there's inadequate monitoring, it's no wonder they're so often out of tune and unsure.[/quote]

They all seem to have been dulled down and the sound is diabolical. Several times, the music has almost been drowning out the vocal!

[Buzz]

They mime.

[AM1]

[quote name='Buzz' post='642803' date='Nov 1 2009, 08:39 PM']They mime.[/quote]

I didn't think they always did as you can hear terrible tuning issues sometimes?

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Buzz' post='642803' date='Nov 1 2009, 08:39 PM']They mime.[/quote]
Oh god yes, in that horrendous group-singing thing in the results show. [i]Terrible[/i] miming. Ugh.

Not for their proper performances though.

[Noisyjon]

Chaps, I have to be careful here, but I work at the studios.
No bull.

The monitors are under black metal grilles at the front, curved edge, of the stage and there's some seriously big speaker boxes flown in the air too. Trust me it's loud and they hear EVERYTHING on stage.

JBJ used the monitors, no IEM's, and JLS were on IEM's.

Cheers,
Jon.

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='jonthebass' post='642816' date='Nov 1 2009, 08:51 PM']Chaps, I have to be careful here, but I work at the studios.
No bull.

The monitors are under black metal grilles at the front, curved edge, of the stage and there's some seriously big speaker boxes flown in the air too. Trust me it's loud and they hear EVERYTHING on stage.

JBJ used the monitors, no IEM's, and JLS were on IEM's.

Cheers,
Jon.[/quote]
Thanks for the info, Jon.

So they [i]can[/i] hear themselves. Yikes. No excuses then.

[iamapirate]

to be fair, I heard jamiroquai the other night - JK sounded awesome live, played it back on my mate's sound recorder and it was diabolical! Not sure why....

Sounds interesting about the monitors, but why have them there with all of the moving, etc. I mean, surely they can hide a black box on them somewhere, and they could hear themselves clearer? I dunno!

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='642856' date='Nov 1 2009, 09:27 PM']to be fair, I heard jamiroquai the other night - JK sounded awesome live, played it back on my mate's sound recorder and it was diabolical! Not sure why....[/quote]
I suspect (but I don't know) there's a relationship between high SPL at the ear and tuning difficulties. Kind of like "the louder it gets, the more flat you'll hear it" (or maybe sharp -- like I say, it's only a suspicion). Obviously, in the gig situation, you're hearing things at roughly the same SPL as the vocalist, so (s)he will sound in tune at the time. Listen back to it later, with volumes at a sensible level, and you'll hear how much the ear was distorting the tuning.

I've heard this effect several times with recordings of high-volume situations, and it's come up on BC before in relation to tuning sounding different when you nip to the bogs and the walls cut the SPL down to size. Seriously, next time you're at a LOUD gig, go to the toilet and listen to the vocal tuning. Yeeeuuchh.

[xilddx]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='642872' date='Nov 1 2009, 09:40 PM']Seriously, next time you're at a LOUD gig, go to the toilet and listen to the vocal tuning. Yeeeuuchh.[/quote]
That doesn't work, you are getting a distorted view of reality. What matters is what is in the auditorium, not the bog. Watch videos of concerts on youtube and you'll get what's been heard.

There have been quite a few studies of how frequency affects pitch perception. Try adding tons of low end to your bass sound next time you rehearse and you'll see how it affects pitch perception.

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='iamapirate' post='642856' date='Nov 1 2009, 09:27 PM']...Sounds interesting about the monitors, but why have them there with all of the moving, etc. I mean, surely they can hide a black box on them somewhere, and they could hear themselves clearer? I dunno![/quote]

As most of them haven't even heard of IEM's it's just more trouble than it's worth to fit them all up with them and then opening the can of worms that is getting them used to the sound of the systems... Believe me we have tried in previous years!

Another element why not is that they all have a bodypack transmitter with a lapel mic on, for the talking bits, so by not having an IEM receiver on their person too it eliminates ANY chance of interference issues, any worse wardrobe malfunctions, etc. All crucial points when the live TV show hurtling through with not much time to deal with any cock ups.

JTB

[WalMan]

IEM's are a funny thing you need to get used to. My lot use them, but vocalist & #2 guitarist use both plugs, I prefer one in and one out, and #1 guitarist and drummer just can't be doing with them as the feel to isolated using them, and despite everything - full gear r/h's to set balances, etc - when you get to a gig it's always a bit different and needs tweaking, as well as changing during the evening as everyone digs in. So as above probably more trouble than it's worth for a show like this if you can fly and disguise monitors.

[AdamWoodBass]

Talk about pitching problems man!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV4_c10Lano"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV4_c10Lano[/url]

[Toasted]

The main thing I disrespect about X-Factor is that when the performances are played back later in the show they have clearly had post processing applied to make the vocal sound better.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='jonthebass' post='642816' date='Nov 1 2009, 08:51 PM']Chaps, I have to be careful here, but I work at the studios.
No bull.[/quote]

I heard that every year the production team pick someone who they think will win, and then put loads of effort into making them win and this year it's Olly. They've been right every year so far. Is that total boll*cks?

[NickH]

[quote name='Toasted' post='643294' date='Nov 2 2009, 12:14 PM']The main thing I disrespect about X-Factor is that when the performances are played back later in the show they have clearly had post processing applied to make the vocal sound better.[/quote]

THAT'S the thing that you take issue with in X-Factor?

[Toasted]

The thing I disrespect most

[TimR]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='643302' date='Nov 2 2009, 12:24 PM']I heard that every year the production team pick someone who they think will win, and then put loads of effort into making them win and this year it's Olly. They've been right every year so far. Is that total boll*cks?[/quote]

That doesn't suprise me. Some of the singers you can hardly hear because the backing vocals and effects are so prominent, others are very exposed. Who is the executive producer of the show again?

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='643302' date='Nov 2 2009, 12:24 PM']I heard that every year the production team pick someone who they think will win, and then put loads of effort into making them win and this year it's Olly. They've been right every year so far. Is that total boll*cks?[/quote]

Who knows? I know as much on you that point.
My opinion is that it isn't true though.

[AM1]

I saw some reports today of contestants saying they couldn't hear themselves on stage.

[cheddatom]

I do get the impression that most of the acts are straining themselves - trying to sing louder than they should be, and I would normally put this down to poor monitoring but it could just be poor singers.

[quote name='jonthebass' post='643509' date='Nov 2 2009, 03:58 PM']Who knows? I know as much on you that point.
My opinion is that it isn't true though.[/quote]

Well I thought it sounded dubious but y'know it apparently came from someone who works on the show....... I'll assume it's b*ll*cks for now.

[TimR]

[quote name='AM1' post='643519' date='Nov 2 2009, 04:04 PM']I saw some reports today of contestants saying they couldn't hear themselves on stage.[/quote]

I suppose as its live they can rehearse all they want but things will still go wrong. I thought the twins did well to pick up from their mistake, no matter what else anyone thinks of them.

[jonsmith]

Over the history of the show, it's certainly seemed at times as if contestants couldn't hear themselves properly, in that their relative pitch to their starting note might be quite good, but not actually at the same pitch as the backing (if you know what I'm trying to say).

I don't know about 'favourites', but it's quite noticeable that some people have their best bits included in the recap and some people have their worst moments. I couldn't say whether it's the same people every time though - haven't been paying enough attention.

[Eight]

[quote name='AM1' post='642802' date='Nov 1 2009, 08:38 PM']They all seem to have been dulled down and the sound is diabolical. Several times, the music has almost been drowning out the vocal![/quote]
That's been driving me nuts this year - I don't remember it being this bad in previous years.

Ok yes, I watch it every year... don't always stick to the end mind.

Anyway, I'd love to know what it sounds like in the studio because in my living room it all sounds like crap. I almost never get to hear the "singing"... no problems with any other ITV programs... not that I watch any but I'm still pretty sure.

[steantval]

On Sunday night Simon Cowell proved he is the biggest PRICK in the world by keeping those Dickhead Twins in the show.

By voting them out it would also have left the other Dickhead (L Walsh) on the show with nothing to do.

The show is totally fixed (who checks the votes) and loses what little credability it had.

It's all about his money and ratings, the contestants are merely pawns in his game.

Lets hope smarmy Cowell has another go in the reasonably priced car on Top Gear and some f*cker cuts the brake pipes, that's what I call reality TV.

Edited November 9, 2009 by steantval