Custom speakers

[Musky]

I was wondering how much manufacturers can customise a speaker? Most of the major cab builders boast that they have custom Eminence/Celestion/whatever drivers in their cabs, and had imagined that this pretty much meant that they had slapped their own label on the back or maybe used a different colour cone on an otherwise standard speaker. But I've also noted that people have pointed out that the specs on Ampeg's 8x10 speakers are pretty 'similar' to Eminence's Alpha units, which kind of suggests that some slight changes have been made to aspects that actually change their performance.

So how much leeway do speaker manufacturers have in customising a speaker without running into costs that would make the changes uneconomical? It seems to me that only the cone and surround might be changed without running into some major rejigging.

[Mr. Foxen]

I think its often solder tags instead of screw connectors on the terminals of the speaker. Cause they are cheaper and suited to manufactured cabs.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Musky' post='644136' date='Nov 3 2009, 04:00 AM']I was wondering how much manufacturers can customise a speaker?[/quote]
Very little, unless they're ordering in lots of 10,000.
Eminence offers a number of OEM options, most of them built with existing parts, a frame from this pile, a cone from that pile, a voice coil from that pile and so forth. The frame and motor very much determine a useful parameter range that can only vary by roughly 20%. There are no OEM 'super drivers' with specs that can't be very nearly duplicated with an off the shelf unit.
The Ampeg driver is a bit unique, because it's built with a frame and motor that hasn't been used for any of Eminence's in-line drivers for at least ten years. If it was any other manufacturer they wouldn't do enough volume to keep making it. Save impedance its specs fall into the range in between the Alpha 10 and Beta 10. Recently some 32 ohm neo replacements have appeared, which probably use the Basslite S2010 frame/motor.

[Musky]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='644375' date='Nov 3 2009, 01:47 PM']Very little, unless they're ordering in lots of 10,000.
Eminence offers a number of OEM options, most of them built with existing parts, a frame from this pile, a cone from that pile, a voice coil from that pile and so forth. The frame and motor very much determine a useful parameter range that can only vary by roughly 20%. There are no OEM 'super drivers' with specs that can't be very nearly duplicated with an off the shelf unit.
The Ampeg driver is a bit unique, because it's built with a frame and motor that hasn't been used for any of Eminence's in-line drivers for at least ten years. If it was any other manufacturer they wouldn't do enough volume to keep making it. Save impedance its specs fall into the range in between the Alpha 10 and Beta 10. Recently some 32 ohm neo replacements have appeared, which probably use the Basslite S2010 frame/motor.[/quote]

Thanks for that Bill. Seems like there are more options than I'd imagined, but still kind of confirms my thoughts. Interesting about the Ampeg drivers though.

[JTUK]

All sounds about right to me .....

Manufactors aren't going to be too keen for you to know what they are using and more to the point what they might be paying.
If we can ID a chassis and get it for £75 or whatever, then a bulk buyer in a name cab makers guise could probably slay that price so you have a marketing balls-up, IMV

[stevie]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='644375' date='Nov 3 2009, 01:47 PM']There are no OEM 'super drivers' with specs that can't be very nearly duplicated with an off the shelf unit.[/quote]
This goes to the heart of the matter. No bass cabinet manufacturer goes to his speaker supplier and says ' I want something that is better than your top of the range speaker'. They are all, to a large extent, box stuffers, and want to hide the fact that they are just sticking a very average driver in a box and charging a lot of money for it. They will, however, ask their speaker supplier if it's possible to reduce the price by a few dollars (hence the lack of push terminals mentioned earlier). I can think of one exception, but that probably proves the rule, as they say.

The only cabinet manufacturer who seems to be open about what he fits is our own Alex, but he is one of the few bass cabinet builders fitting premium quality drivers.

The smaller driver manufacturers are a lot more flexible as far as custom drivers are concerned, but even here, there are limits.

[Musky]

[quote name='stevie' post='645704' date='Nov 4 2009, 08:58 PM']This goes to the heart of the matter. No bass cabinet manufacturer goes to his speaker supplier and says ' I want something that is better than your top of the range speaker'. They are all, to a large extent, box stuffers, and want to hide the fact that they are just sticking a very average driver in a box and charging a lot of money for it. They will, however, ask their speaker supplier if it's possible to reduce the price by a few dollars (hence the lack of push terminals mentioned earlier). I can think of one exception, but that probably proves the rule, as they say.

The only cabinet manufacturer who seems to be open about what he fits is our own Alex, but he is one of the few bass cabinet builders fitting premium quality drivers.

The smaller driver manufacturers are a lot more flexible as far as custom drivers are concerned, but even here, there are limits.[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't really think there was any such thing as a 'super driver', or the manufacturers would be making them as a standard model! I'd rather assumed that the whole 'custom driver' thing was mostly snake oil, with an implied superior performance. It's a little surprising to me to find that some of the parts are more interchangeable than I'd imagined, but I'm under no illusion that they offer any real benefits over standard models.

What was the exception you had in mind Stevie?

Edited November 6, 2009 by Musky

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='Musky' post='647118' date='Nov 6 2009, 07:05 AM']Yeah, I didn't really think there was any such thing as a 'super driver', or the manufacturers would be making them as a standard model! I'd rather assumed that the whole 'custom driver' thing was mostly snake oil, with an implied superior performance.[/quote]Leo Fender pasted 'Special Design' stickers on the drivers he used and the only thing special about them was the sticker. He used stock drivers, purchased from a number of companies, which ones made it into a particular production run depended on who gave him the best price.

[stevie]

[quote name='Musky' post='647118' date='Nov 6 2009, 12:05 PM']What was the exception you had in mind Stevie?[/quote]
I was thinking of the LAB12 woofer that Eminence built (and still builds) for Tom Danley's Lab horn, which was more advanced in certain respects than the drivers Eminence was making at the time. It has an xmax of 13mm, for example.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='stevie' post='647276' date='Nov 6 2009, 09:27 AM']I was thinking of the LAB12 woofer that Eminence built (and still builds) for Tom Danley's Lab horn, which was more advanced in certain respects than the drivers Eminence was making at the time. It has an xmax of 13mm, for example.[/quote]The Lab 12 is built on the same frame used by Eminence for a number of drivers, the Dayton (Parts Express) Titanic 12, which pre-dates the LAB, being one example. The magnet, coil, cone etc. are all stock items. The only part that might have been created specifically for it is the dome, though that might have been a stock item as well. It differs from most Eminence offerings being built on a consumer sound frame, not a pro-sound frame. Eminence makes many OEM consumer sound drivers, but only markets pro-sound drivers under its own brand.