Rechargeable 9v

[stewblack]

Having had my wireless go down on me at the last gig I decided to take the bull by the horns and organise my battery situation once and for all. I've been reliably informed that rechargeable batteries are much better these days, holding power longer and delivering more oomph to where it's needed. So I thought I'd go for a charger that did four 9V batteries simultaneously (I use them elsewhere too) and a tester to make sure the thing is up to speed before every gig and with a spare waiting in the wings I'd be well prepared.
Then last night I'm collecting PA bits from our hire guy and he says 'Oh no mate, rechargeables are hopeless for that kind of use. They never charge up enough you won't drain them sufficiently by use in a wireless and they learn to only work on half charge' I of course smiled and edged away as one will in the presence of dangerous mad men - but did he actually have some kind of point? Would I be wasting my time and hard earned?
It's just with Duracells up at an exorbitant price it would be nice to sort this out.

[endorka]

[quote name='stewblack' post='70220' date='Oct 6 2007, 09:26 AM']Then last night I'm collecting PA bits from our hire guy and he says 'Oh no mate, rechargeables are hopeless for that kind of use. They never charge up enough you won't drain them sufficiently by use in a wireless and they learn to only work on half charge' I of course smiled and edged away as one will in the presence of dangerous mad men - but did he actually have some kind of point?[/quote]

He has some kind of point - what he is referring to is the so called "memory effect" that apparently affected older types of rechargables such as some of the Nickel Cadmium (NiCd) types. Newer rechargeable battery types such as Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) don't suffer from this, so as long as you use this type you should be ok. See the following link for more info;

[url="http://www.dansdata.com/gz011.htm"]http://www.dansdata.com/gz011.htm[/url]

Jennifer

[url="http://www.jenniferclarkbass.com"]http://www.jenniferclarkbass.com[/url]

[Alpha-Dave]

I tried using rechargeable batteries in my power-hungry basses, but they didn't last very well. Then I found that there are various sources of lithium PP3 on ebay. These things are £7-8 in Maplin's as they're superior to Duracell's, but if you put in an offer here, then you can get 10 for £1.20 each.

I've bought 2 lots so far, and they've both worked fine.

[url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-x-ULTRALIFE-LITHIUM-PP3-9V-BATTERYs-FREE-UK-POSTAGE_W0QQitemZ290165796505QQihZ019QQcategoryZ50615QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem"]http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/10-x-ULTRALIFE-LITHI...1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

[Stewart]

Agreed with everything really...

I use 3 rechargeables in rotation for individual pedals I might be playing with at home (mainly a BD121 into the PC), and they have saved me significant money, but I'd never use one in a bass - or a pedal in rehearsal/live.

The ones I have are NiMH and they're either 170 or 200mAh (milliAmp-hours) capacity.
For comparison, even the cheapest Alkalines run 550mAh...

[The Burpster]

MiMH dont yet have anywhere near the same capacity as Li or 'normal' Alkaline..... Shame....

NiMH are very good and wont get a serious 'memory issue' like the old NiCD would, and they have a shallow discharge curve until they get to their cut off point when they go dead flat really quick with little warning......

So provided you dont use for high load applications, and you make sure they are charged properly before you use them they should be ok.

[stewblack]

Thanks guys/gals - great advice as ever!

Edited October 6, 2007 by stewblack

[bassbloke]

I have nothing but trouble with recharageable batteries in my camera and would never use one in a bass, wireless or pedal.

Robert Dyas usually have deals on Duracell and Energizer batteries. Current deal is buy one get one free on twin packs of Energizer 9V for £6.99. That's £1.75 per battery. Not bad!

[alexclaber]

[quote name='The Burpster' post='70329' date='Oct 6 2007, 03:25 PM']MiMH dont yet have anywhere near the same capacity as Li or 'normal' Alkaline..... Shame....[/quote]

NiMH batteries have significantly MORE capacity than alkalines under heavy load. However the majority of NiMH batteries have a high self-discharge rate which makes them unsuitable for low load environments (like in active bass electronics). NiMH are far better than alkalines in digital cameras etc.

Alex

[stewblack]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='70479' date='Oct 7 2007, 12:06 AM']NiMH batteries have significantly MORE capacity than alkalines under heavy load. However the majority of NiMH batteries have a high self-discharge rate which makes them unsuitable for low load environments (like in active bass electronics). NiMH are far better than alkalines in digital cameras etc.

Alex[/quote]
I was thinking rather for the wireless transmitter than for the active bass electronics - the duracell in there lasts for ever - is the wireless transmitter low or high load?

[alexclaber]

Anything where an alkaline battery lasts a long time is lower load - remote controls, active basses, many analogue effects pedals. High load items are most digital electronics (pedals, cameras, etc), torches, and so on.

I have never found a reliable capacity rating for an alkaline battery as the high internal resistance means the capacity under high demand is a fraction of the capacity at low demand.

I strongly recommend Hybrio NiMH instead of alkalines as they have very low self-discharge (80% charge after a year sitting idle), are fully charged when you buy them, and have all the other benefits of normal NiMH batteries. They don't make 9V's yet but I'm gradually replacing all my AA cells with them.

Alex

[stewblack]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='71945' date='Oct 10 2007, 12:48 AM']Anything where an alkaline battery lasts a long time is lower load - remote controls, active basses, many analogue effects pedals. High load items are most digital electronics (pedals, cameras, etc), torches, and so on.

I have never found a reliable capacity rating for an alkaline battery as the high internal resistance means the capacity under high demand is a fraction of the capacity at low demand.

I strongly recommend Hybrio NiMH instead of alkalines as they have very low self-discharge (80% charge after a year sitting idle), are fully charged when you buy them, and have all the other benefits of normal NiMH batteries. They don't make 9V's yet but I'm gradually replacing all my AA cells with them.

Alex[/quote]
Thanks Alex. I'll watch out for them.

[Bassman7]

The reason why Duracells are so good is the way they discharge their current, in fact this is the main difference with the different battery types which is why not so long ago manufacturers of say high quality radio mics ie Sennheisers recommended alkaline because they made the electronics perform better due to the way they give a higher quality discharge of current.

If you're looking for a good deal on the Pro version of Duracells look up the Studiospares website at www.studiospares.com where you'll find some good prices.

[synaesthesia]

[quote name='Bassman7' post='71981' date='Oct 10 2007, 07:37 AM']If you're looking for a good deal on the Pro version of Duracells look up the Studiospares website at www.studiospares.com where you'll find some good prices.[/quote]


RE: Procells
Look in Ebay and you'll find Procells for roughly £1 @ depending on how many you buy. I've pretty much stopped using rechargeables when you can procells at these prices. Procells are 'industrial' versions of Duracells, i.e. much the same thing with a different dress.

[Bassman7]

[quote name='synaesthesia' post='72127' date='Oct 10 2007, 01:14 PM']RE: Procells
Look in Ebay and you'll find Procells for roughly £1 @ depending on how many you buy. I've pretty much stopped using rechargeables when you can procells at these prices. Procells are 'industrial' versions of Duracells, i.e. much the same thing with a different dress.[/quote]

Cool!! Even better, way to go!

[Rich]

+1 for the Procells. Like synaes said, you can pick them up for peanuts on fleaBay -- the last lot I bought were 10 for £7.

[bassicinstinct]

+1 for the Duracell Procells.

Used them for years and each one last for months and months.

[Steve_K]

Another + for procells.

[stewblack]

Ordered myself a pack of 10 from the bay. Thanks for the advice.

[Bassman7]

[quote name='stewblack' post='73054' date='Oct 11 2007, 08:46 PM']Ordered myself a pack of 10 from the bay. Thanks for the advice.[/quote]

If you are near an IKEA they are now stocking a great new package consisting of a compact Class 2 battery Charger for both Ni-MH and Ni-Cd batteries, 4x Ni-MH AA size batteries and 2x Ni-MH AAA size batteries all for £14.99!!

Don't forget they also do great prices on Alkaline batteries of all sizes including AA and PP3 which are not made in China but in Germany by good old Varta!

It might help, there again it might not but I thought I'd mention it!

[stewblack]

[quote name='Bassman7' post='73092' date='Oct 11 2007, 10:51 PM']If you are near an IKEA they are now stocking a great new package consisting of a compact Class 2 battery Charger for both Ni-MH and Ni-Cd batteries, 4x Ni-MH AA size batteries and 2x Ni-MH AAA size batteries all for £14.99!!

Don't forget they also do great prices on Alkaline batteries of all sizes including AA and PP3 which are not made in China but in Germany by good old Varta!

It might help, there again it might not but I thought I'd mention it![/quote]

Thanks mate but our nearest IKEA is built on the ruins of what was once the holy shrine of British football and as such is far too painful to visit.

[King Tut]

I use a Sennheiser Freeport radio system and use a rechargeable NiMH all the time. I just recharge it after every gig. I make sure to turn the transmitter off between sets. Maplins are currently knocking out 3 200MAh PP3s (NiMH rechargeable) for a tenner. A 'no brainer' if you ask me!