lowdown Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='651195' date='Nov 10 2009, 11:33 PM']But then I've heard Vic Wooten himself say that music's nothing unless you've got something to say, and then bombard people with a barrage of double-thumbing noise that sounds like a hyperactive toddler with a pair of spoons and a metal bucket for 3 minutes straight. What was he trying to say? "I can play bass THIS fast"?[/quote] Urm.. i meant lyrical in melodic sense. Oh well. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='lowdown' post='651225' date='Nov 11 2009, 12:07 AM']Urm.. i meant lyrical in melodic sense. Oh well. [/quote] Yeah. I think both our points stand, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I think bass needs to be able to add to the song just as any other instrument. Whether that be playing a single note over & over like "the void" or something a bit more technical like "hit me with your rhythm stick" or some flash w@n<ery like "shy boy", take the bass away or put a different bassline there & the punter will notice. They might not know what's different, but they'll miss it if it's good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Less is more? And less can be melodic, lyrical, startling and ultra effective. Goes for all instruments, not just bass. fatback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='fatback' post='651383' date='Nov 11 2009, 10:08 AM']Less is more? And less can be melodic, lyrical, startling and ultra effective. Goes for all instruments, not just bass. fatback[/quote] definitely right- i love simple bass lines and try not to be too bored playing them- Jameson could do both massively complicated and very simple- sometimes in the same song so anything works as long as it fits the song bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrcrow Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) [quote name='bubinga5' post='650253' date='Nov 9 2009, 11:24 PM']like i said, where is bass.or where can it go.....would you rather hear melodic bass lines that compliment the song, or would you rather hear super techniques that blow you away...somewhere in between for me... ive often thought that the bass is a slave to the music really, even if its play with some flamboyance , as long as it stays within it boundries...thats where it is most effective right?? lets face it, most of the public who listen to music dont even know the bass is there(which is a shame) but what will it take, to take bass to the level that other instruments are...im thinking this may never happen because of the nature of the instrument... sometimes i love the fact that its only us that realise the importance of electric bass, but i wish sometimes that other (non musician) people would think about what there listening to sometimes...as well as other instruments of course!! i very rarely come across anyone who says "oh i love that bass line" or "man i dig that guitar or trumpet part" ive often said that i play bass for the bigger picture which i stand by, but does our bass playing fall on deaf ears? are we slaves to the listeners as well as the music! oh i do think too much..[/quote] bass has its plass.. i played other instruments and when the bass was absent...it was felt..drums arent really enough i dont really listen to it as a solo instrument but a fundamental underpinning to many tune/threads of other players contributions because i play bass i can hear every note and nuance...which i think does go beyond the overall listener...but even so i dont reckon bass as singularly important i played saxes and clarinet for years...but now i dont play them i tend to pick out bass more easily in a recording Edited November 11, 2009 by mrcrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 We have entered the era of the songwriter. The musician or virtuoso player is commonly ignored. Take for example when Guns 'n' Roses started up, who the hell wanted to be Axl Rose? Slash was the man, wielding his axe. (I know someone is going to disagree strongly with that). Flea aside, in the bass world we have signature basses for Mike Drint (or whatever he's called out of Greenday), hardly pushing the boundaries. Songwriters are supreme at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='651195' date='Nov 10 2009, 11:33 PM']But then I've heard Vic Wooten himself say that music's nothing unless you've got something to say, and then bombard people with a barrage of double-thumbing noise that sounds like a hyperactive toddler with a pair of spoons and a metal bucket for 3 minutes straight. What was he trying to say? "I can play bass THIS fast"?[/quote] Victor bashing part 31. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Pete Academy' post='651974' date='Nov 11 2009, 08:40 PM']Victor bashing part 31.[/quote] Pointless response #72squillion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='651195' date='Nov 10 2009, 11:33 PM']But then I've heard Vic Wooten himself say that music's nothing unless you've got something to say, and then bombard people with a barrage of double-thumbing noise that sounds like a hyperactive toddler with a pair of spoons and a metal bucket for 3 minutes straight. What was he trying to say? "I can play bass THIS fast"?[/quote] For Heaven's sake, can you guys look past Victor's chops and see the great musician that he is? Good job he isn't on this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='651976' date='Nov 11 2009, 08:42 PM']Pointless response #72squillion.[/quote] Pointless response? Maybe so, but seriously stop pointing out his manic slap stuff and dig a bit deeper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born 2B Mild Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Good thread. Basschat is better for when debates get going on meaningful stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Pete Academy' post='651977' date='Nov 11 2009, 08:44 PM']For Heaven's sake, can you guys look past Victor's chops and see the great musician that he is?[/quote] Much like any other musician, I judge him on his music. If he hadn't wanted me to hear his awful double-thumb slapping noise then he shouldn't have recorded it, A MILLION TIMES. I have to assume he thinks it sounds great, but I think it sounds like a dustbin full of rocks rolling down an escalator. But even so if he hadn't also opined about how music's pointless unless you've got something to say, I wouldn't be sitting here calling him a hypocrite now would I? If he'd just said "Yeah I like to goof off and make these clangy noises to show off and I know it sounds like sh*t but what the hell, I can do it and you can't" then my only reasonable response would've been "fair play". [quote name='Pete Academy' post='651977' date='Nov 11 2009, 08:44 PM']Good job he isn't on this forum.[/quote] I'm sure he's heard criticism before and he's grown-up enough to cope with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='651989' date='Nov 11 2009, 09:03 PM']Much like any other musician, I judge him on his music. If he hadn't wanted me to hear his awful double-thumb slapping noise then he shouldn't have recorded it, A MILLION TIMES. I have to assume he thinks it sounds great, but I think it sounds like a dustbin full of rocks rolling down an escalator. But even so if he hadn't also opined about how music's pointless unless you've got something to say, I wouldn't be sitting here calling him a hypocrite now would I? If he'd just said "Yeah I like to goof off and make these clangy noises to show off and I know it sounds like sh*t but what the hell, I can do it and you can't" then my only reasonable response would've been "fair play".[/quote] Someone hasn't been listening to Wootens albums. There is alot of great music on his albums that don't involve any thumping at all,so calling him out as being a hypocrite is just bullsh*t. Once again,people see the chops and assume it's due to lack of music and feeling. Whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Doddy' post='652010' date='Nov 11 2009, 09:23 PM']Someone hasn't been listening to Wootens albums.[/quote] I used to have his first album, I might still have it. [quote name='Doddy' post='652010' date='Nov 11 2009, 09:23 PM']There is alot of great music on his albums that don't involve any thumping at all,so calling him out as being a hypocrite is just bullsh*t.[/quote] I didn't like his music but that's not really important. The album I had, I can't remember there being a song that didn't have fast slap on it. There might've been one, but I don't think there was. I haven't listened to it for over 10 years. There were definitely a few that had solid sections of unlistenable w***ery on there though. To be expected really, when the record was aimed squarely at the fawning bass player market. [quote name='Doddy' post='652010' date='Nov 11 2009, 09:23 PM']Once again,people see the chops and assume it's due to lack of music and feeling.[/quote] If you actually read what I've written you'll notice your response is completely hatstand and irrelevant. And I didn't assume anything, I've heard his music, the only person making assumptions here is you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raslee Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I/we love bass...... i personally love playing 3-4 notes of a real phat speaker rumbling belly popping dub that warbles a riddim that hypnotises the audience (oh...and the band) and nobody knows what it is that's gripping them and holding them together....that is until it drops out...then the riddim comes back in...that be the bass that gets ya together again and rinse up the pum pum. And well.... i equally love the fact that the likes of the mighty Jaco, Bootsy etc have taken the bass out there to space and back again...there is plenty of room for bass in space (there are no walls behind the sky )....dig - thanks god people get out there to space (talented!)...i wish i was an astronaut and not a space cadet (maybe practice) - I'll stick with my earthy 3-4 notes....that's my love and happy medium after all. As a random afterthought didn't that Whitened Stripes band have no bass player?...yet there biggest tune was that one with the b-line...go figure. Bass falls on those who feel it...he who knows it feels it...amen & more wine, one love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 +1 loved Bella Fleck & the Flecktones before I knew of Wooten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='652024' date='Nov 11 2009, 09:36 PM']If you actually read what I've written you'll notice your response is completely hatstand and irrelevant. And I didn't assume anything, I've heard his music, the only person making assumptions here is you.[/quote] But you have made a couple of comments about 'awful double-thumb slapping noise'. While that is probably the biggest reason for his notoriety,it is only one part of his playing. How you come across is that this one technique is all you are familiar with when it comes to his music. Therefor you seemingly dismiss his music on technical grounds. You then refer to 'solid sections of unlistenable w***ery' on his first album (A Show of Hands). That's funny I've listened to the album a number of times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 (edited) [quote name='Doddy' post='652055' date='Nov 11 2009, 10:04 PM']But you have made a couple of comments about 'awful double-thumb slapping noise'. While that is probably the biggest reason for his notoriety,it is only one part of his playing. How you come across is that this one technique is all you are familiar with when it comes to his music. Therefor you seemingly dismiss his music on technical grounds.[/quote] Well, as I've now stated explicitly I have heard some of his music. But what I was criticising was the showy nonsense he does, not his "serious music". I don't like his music but that's not really relevant, it's his music and not everybody has to like it, but I found it a little incongruous for him to declare that music's all about communication and pointless unless you have something to say, and then spend such a large proportion of his time showing off his chops for drooling bass players. [quote name='Doddy' post='652055' date='Nov 11 2009, 10:04 PM']You then refer to 'solid sections of unlistenable w***ery' on his first album (A Show of Hands). That's funny I've listened to the album a number of times.[/quote] Do you want a badge? This is to certify that Doddy has an exceptionally high pain threshold - that sort of thing? Edited November 11, 2009 by thisnameistaken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='652060' date='Nov 11 2009, 10:11 PM']Well, as I've now stated explicitly I have heard some of his music. But what I was criticising was the showy nonsense he does, not his "serious music". I don't like his music but that's not really relevant, it's his music and not everybody has to like it, but I found it a little incongruous for him to declare that music's all about communication and pointless unless you have something to say, and then spend such a large proportion of his time showing off his chops for drooling bass players.[/quote] He does show his chops off at times,but what is underneath it all is a solid musical foundation. Playing at a trade show and showing off chops is a world away from his 'day job' of actually playing music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Doddy' post='652069' date='Nov 11 2009, 10:29 PM']He does show his chops off at times,but what is underneath it all is a solid musical foundation. Playing at a trade show and showing off chops is a world away from his 'day job' of actually playing music.[/quote] Well, he does the clinics, and he tours with Stanley Clarke and Marcus Miller - excuse me if I assume that that's another gig where the audience is 100% bass players but I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption given that nobody else in the world would know who they are. He's got the Flecktones gig I suppose, but is there anything else he does where the music comes first? It seems his 'day job' is more about showing off his chops than being especially musical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born 2B Mild Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Maybe in a parrallel universe, on [i]drumchat.co.uk[/i], there's a thread that goes "Where is drumming?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='Born 2B Mild' post='652077' date='Nov 11 2009, 10:37 PM']Maybe in a parrallel universe, on [i]drumchat.co.uk[/i], there's a thread that goes "Where is drumming?"[/quote] thats easy to answer - behind everything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='652076' date='Nov 11 2009, 10:36 PM']Well, he does the clinics, and he tours with Stanley Clarke and Marcus Miller - excuse me if I assume that that's another gig where the audience is 100% bass players but I don't think it's an unreasonable assumption given that nobody else in the world would know who they are. He's got the Flecktones gig I suppose, but is there anything else he does where the music comes first? It seems his 'day job' is more about showing off his chops than being especially musical.[/quote] You don't tour with guys like Chick Corea and Mike Stern if you aren't musical. They may require technical ability but it's still about the music first. Have you heard the Track he recorded India Arie? It's great and doesn't require any major chops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Well I think we're still arguing at cross purposes here. Never mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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