Are modeling amps - accurate?

[Pbassred]

Are modeling amps an accurate copy of their target?
Has anyone actually compared them.

Does it matter - in that a "good sound" is good whatever its is [i]supposed [/i]to be?
Are they good?
Playing around with my Bass Podxt live, I've noticed that several amps don't change the sound that much. I wonder if it matters anyway after you shove it all through a PA system and rattle it around the hall.

Debate!

[The Funk]

One problem with a lot of the presets on the guitar ones is that they're normally the modelled amp + several modelled effects tacked on.

If you take all the effects off, the actual amp models aren't that bad - maybe about 70% accurate.

I'd never use one live or in the studio though. I just prefer the sound of my bass preamp going direct or the sound of a good guitar combo with an SM57 in front.

[Guest subaudio]

Good post, I have a GT6B and there are some very good sounds in there, some not so good too, I couldn't say if they are accurate models of the intended as I haven't heard a lot of them, I suspect not in most cases, I don't think your going to get the huge valve sound of a driven SVT etc, just a convenient aprox.

[Mobius]

I have a Roland Cube 60 guitar amp, I haven't compared it to any of the real amps but I can can a wide variety of tones out of it. It doesn't really matter to me too much if they sound like the real thing as long as the tones are good...which they are. I can go from a decent clean tone, to a more coloured clean tone with the Fender Deluxe Reverb model, all the way up to the fairly extreme Mesa Boogie model.

[BigRedX]

If you've got a particular amp you are font of the sound of the chances are you're going to be disappointed by any currently available modelled version. I look at the amp/speaker modellers as a way of getting lots of really good and varied sounds in one package not as a replacement for any one type of amp/speaker set up.

[Russ]

I've played with the Line6 Lowdown combos, and the LD300 does a pretty accurate SVT model... it's suitably gritty when pushed and, as an SVT owner, I was impressed. Some of the other models weren't so good... the B-15 wasn't great, and the clean sound (based on an Eden, I think) is a bit flat.

I'd be interested in their stuff if they'd do them in head/cab configurations - I've kinda outgrown combos.

[s_u_y_*]

[quote name='Russ' post='5895' date='May 24 2007, 05:04 PM']I'd be interested in their stuff if they'd do them in head/cab configurations - I've kinda outgrown combos.[/quote]

Some people use their Line 6 Pods as preamps and use power amps to drive their cabs.

[BOD2]

I use a Bass POD XT Pro exclusively, but I've never had the opportunity to A/B test the amp models (I suspect few of us have).

I look on it as a tone generator - I don't really care what amp or cab model I'm using as long as I like the sound, although it helps when creating a new sound to have some sort of idea of which amp you would like to be using for that sound and then start from there.

Bear in mind that the sounds generated by most of these modellers are meant to replicate the [i][b]recorded[/i][/b] sound of the amp in question - i.e. the sound picked up by a mic in front of the cab - and not necessarily the exact sound you hear in a room. These two sounds may not actually be the same. With this in mind, the POD has different mic types and different mic placement settings which again change the sound. So when you're doing an A/B test it;'s complicated because which modelled mic should you choose and where should the modelled mic be placed - you obviously don't have to consider that when just listening to a real amp.

Also, if you're listening to the modelled amp through a speaker system and not recorded, then that speaker system will also impart it's own signature sound onto the modelled sound. This all makes it pretty complicated to really A/B test.

But at the end of the day I think it comes down to creating sounds you like.

[Tinman]

I suppose it's like anything else, the more you spend the better they are. I bought an H+K Zentera modelling guitar combo, brilliant but at £2500 you'd expect it to be (I didn't pay that much for it by the way)

[BigRedX]

[quote name='s_u_y_*' post='6037' date='May 24 2007, 09:05 PM']Some people use their Line 6 Pods as preamps and use power amps to drive their cabs.[/quote]

That's exactly what I'm doing. The Pod for me is a way of getting a whole load of pre-set sounds for the different songs we do. Also I'm able to use it the balance the volumes between the different basses I use live - Fretted 5, Fretted 8 (octaves) and Fretless 4. Whether or not the models I use sound like the real thing is immaterial for me. I just pick sounds that suit the song I'm playing and the bass I'm using to play it.

[acidbass]

[quote name='BOD2' post='6052' date='May 24 2007, 09:20 PM']But at the end of the day I think it comes down to creating sounds you like.[/quote]

Definitely. Even if you had a massive wall of Sunn amplifiers, you'd never create the same sound out of them that John Entwistle did (god I mention him a lot). Find a sound you're happy with, something that sounds good and suits your style and band, and you're away!

Just remember - don't go out and buy the original amp that your favourite sound was modelled on, otherwise prepare to be disappointed

[MB1]

MB1.

NO!

[bassbloke]

[quote name='MB1' post='6387' date='May 25 2007, 11:35 AM']MB1.

NO![/quote]

I can't say how 'accurate' each model is, but, for example, on my POD XT Live, the SWR model has an undeniable SWR slant to the sound.

However, I have noticed a lot of strange glitches when listening through headphones - there's something not quite right about the sound and I've experienced this on a number of Line 6 devices with a number of basses (active and passive) and using different headphones. I mainly use a set of BeyerDynamic DT150s - believe me, these can take some punishment.

The overdriven models seems to be the biggest culprits. I think that pushing up the gain of the SVT model makes it nearly unuseable.

[MB1]

MB1.

I honestly dont see the point.i dont want my rig to sound like anything else.i spent alot of money buying what i wanted in the first place.i have tried the real amps and then tried the modeled equivalents they dont come close.a box you pick up for a couple of hundred quid is never gonna replicate a rig youve spent thousands on.theyred be a lot of manufacturers complaining if these things were accurate.stand in front of an ampeg 8x10 with a pair of flares on and ill see you in portsmouth(should blow you away). nothing in a pedalbox could ever replicate that.my view anyway!

MB1.

[chris_b]

[quote name='MB1' post='6421' date='May 25 2007, 12:35 PM']MB1.

I honestly dont see the point.i dont want my rig to sound like anything else.i spent alot of money buying what i wanted in the first place.i have tried the real amps and then tried the modeled equivalents they dont come close.a box you pick up for a couple of hundred quid is never gonna replicate a rig youve spent thousands on.theyred be a lot of manufacturers complaining if these things were accurate.stand in front of an ampeg 8x10 with a pair of flares on and ill see you in portsmouth(should blow you away). nothing in a pedalbox could ever replicate that.my view anyway!

MB1.[/quote]

Totally agree. These things are toys designed to get your money. Buy the real thing.

[bass_ferret]

What they said. I've never felt the need to get that many sounds. There is so much variation with fingers, thumb or pick, playing by the bridge/playing by the neck, pickup blending and active tone controls I could not cope with any more.

[BOD2]

I'm not going to start an argument about which is best, lol. At the end of the day you should always use what works for you.

BUT... bass_ferret, MB1, chris_b you are missing the point. Amp modellers are perfect for home studios where you don't have the space or sound insulation to mic up the big bass rig, and you might want several different amp sounds for different feels.

Also, plug a good amp modeller directly into the a big PA and you have a full bass sound that you can carry in rucsac.

Amp modellers will never replace big rigs on pro band stages that need the visual impact of a big backline but they do offer a workable alternative for other situations.

At the end of the day it's the same as every other gear argument (e.g what's best - SWR or Ampeg, Fender Jazz or Fender P). You use what suits you best.

[lowhand_mike]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='6447' date='May 25 2007, 01:07 PM']What they said. I've never felt the need to get that many sounds. There is so much variation with fingers, thumb or pick, playing by the bridge/playing by the neck, pickup blending and active tone controls I could not cope with any more.[/quote]

totally agree, even if you do go aout and spend a fortune on a rig just cos your fav player uses it you're unlikely to get the same sound due to the variations in playing technique, string choice, bass choice possibly even down to the skin on your fingers. though buying that way is a good start but by no means gauranteed to be the best choice.

[ped]

I am totally with BOD2 here - as a fellow pod user in the studio I find it invaluable to have so much on tap. I guess if you are playing music where 'your' sound is acceptable then its not so useful, but in an environment where you need to acheive a certain sound then there is nothing better!

[MB1]

MB1.

regarding missing the point ,i dont use a big rig cause it looks nice! i use decent gear so i can hear myself,first and foremost,i would not wish to ever use a pedalboard to plug into the pa i wouldnt have the cheek to turn up to a gig with just a pedalboard,i know some people do, if thats your thing fine,but thats really not for me.i prefer to hear what im playing and be in control of that sound on stage.

MB1.

as chris b mentioned a lot of these pedalboards are nothing more than toys to get your money!(a view i can see a lot o truth in, theyed be more useful if they brewed up and made toast,or do boss already make one?

Edited May 25, 2007 by MB1

[ped]

On stage it depends on the PA like Bod2 has said. Sometimes it makes sense, sometimes not. I like using in ears from mine because I can hear myself better than having any amount of riggage behind me. However, sometimes, an amplifier just suits the occasion and wider setup. In the studio though I think they are true 'swiss army knife' pieces of kit!

[OldGit]

[quote name='chris_b' post='6423' date='May 25 2007, 12:40 PM']Totally agree. These things are toys designed to get your money. Buy the real thing.[/quote]


Ha ha yeah Chris,
and buying an SVT and 8x10 and housing, shifting and maintaining it is really cheap. ... and then all you have is an SVT and 8x10...

To replace my mighty fine Peavey BAM modeling 2x10 combo I need to have a SVT + 8x10 (my default setting) then I need a 360 + 1x18 boomer, then 60's valve bassman + 2x12 (switchable to the 8x10) and then the fliptop plus 1x15. (and I don't even use the RedHead, Hartke and modern Peavey stuff sounds) and I need them all on stage in one tune and same way of changing between them.

If you are lucky enough to have a signature sound, or be happy with the sound of one amp and cab then that's fine for you. I'm not.

Maybe I will be with my new rig but I fully intend to get something like the bam + foot controller functionality to put in front of the MarkBass LMK to give me as much tone control under my feet as I have now for stage work.

If I want to shake the floor I just go to my reggae setting - 360+1x18 set to full bass.

My bass intentionally doesn't have stack of eq controls and I have no intention of fertling with the amp eq settings for 36 bars and they trying to get them back precisely where they were for the next 36 bars an then a totally different setting for the next 36 ...

Modelling's not a toy, it's a tool.

I've only owned one of the real amps it models - the Fender Bassman valve stuff from the 70's and , as far as I recall, its spot on but it was a very long time ago. One of teh bass mags A-B'd the BAMand real things and reported pretty good results. I know the Fliptop cab sounds like a 1x15 (I've had loads of those) but I really don't care how accurate the modelling is.

The sounds sound good. It's a lot louder than a lot of teh orginals - B15? 80 watt bassman?
There's no way I could take a neutral sounding amp and set the eq to sound like these clasic rigs so I'm happy to have the brains at Peavey work it out for me ..

Stu Hamm makes it souds pretty good too
[url="http://www.peavey.com/products/demos/bam210.cfm"]http://www.peavey.com/products/demos/bam210.cfm[/url]

[Waldo]

[quote]Totally agree. These things are toys designed to get your money. Buy the real thing[/quote]

That's b*llocks, for the reasons posted above.

[ped]

I read somewhere that more often than not, the bass guitar is recorded through these 'toys' on most of the records in the charts today.

[MB1]

MB1.

saw mr hamm on the peavey gig he did for them in manchester absolutely amazing, but thats mr hamms playing not his modelling amp.you must be playing to musos cause most of the places i play,the audience wouldnt know the difference between a ampeg svt an ashdown a peavey or anything else, as long as it sounds ok there fine with it. i really dont want to get into an argument if it works for you it works,bear in mind though it might not work for others.with all them different amps you gotta be an engineers nightmare.sorry i come from the gerry mcavoy plug and play school!

all the best

MB1.