Michael Manring

[ahpook]

[quote name='funkypenguin' post='653222' date='Nov 12 2009, 11:43 PM']...is secondary to what he's saying/communicating through the music. take technique, and that he's playing a bass out of the picture, and think of him as a composer[/quote]

the music says very little to me.

Edited November 13, 2009 by ahpook

[Rich]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='653272' date='Nov 13 2009, 01:30 AM']It's really quite difficult to get [i]those[/i] sounds out of a bass - because it wasn't designed to do that job.[/quote]
The bass guitar was originally designed to do two jobs -- 1) to deliver accurately intonated notes, and 2) be louder & smaller than a double bass. That's it. No picks, no slaps, no glassy top end, no tonal variation, nothing.
How many of us here can say that we have never, [i]ever[/i] asked more of it than its original brief?

[51m0n]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='653262' date='Nov 13 2009, 12:49 AM']Well, having watched that I'm astonished. What follows is [i]just my opinion [/i]and does not seek to deny in any way the pleasure some may experience from this piece.

I was under the impression I was going to see some sort of musical God and hear the voices of angels. What's delivered seems little more than that which a moderately accomplished amateur six-string guitarist might knock up in their bedroom. Turgid tune, crude and predictable use of harmonics and drop-tuners. In one word - clunky.

I cringed with embarrassment as I watched a grown man go gooey-faced while delivering something he does not realise is so comprehensively underwhelming. It seems to me that the approbation he garners is down to the fact he's doing it [i]on a bass[/i]! That's sad.

I'm terrified to think that brains might well explode if anyone here happened to trip over some Adrian Legg or Pierre Bensusan or Jerry Donahue. Speaking of whom - This is how to use harmonics - Start to 1:02. Not a drop tuner in sight - and [i]musical[/i].[/quote]


I cannot believe that you honestly consider that this:-



is clunky and contrived and less musical use of harmonics than this:-



Which appears to be a very standard (and contrived) bit of country picking, and although very very well played is definitely neither in any way exploring the limits of any instrument, or in any way played better, or in any way better (or even close) compositionally. IMO.

It may be that that is really your opinion, but I'm afraid mine will always be very very diffrent to yours....

Ain't music great

It's funny though, Manring haas been quoted many times with saying that the people who have the biggest issue with his music are more often than not bassists. I can't understand it at all myself. I rejoice in the fact that there are people out there who can compose and play music that is that beautiful for me to enjoy. Other people seem to wish to make out that it is flawed in some way, yet whenever I listen to it it absolutely blows me away with the beauty of the melody/harmony and emotional content.

IMO it really is just simply your loss.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='51m0n' post='653485' date='Nov 13 2009, 11:24 AM']Manring haas been quoted many times with saying that the people who have the biggest issue with his music are more often than not bassists.[/quote]

Maybe it's because most of his audience are bassists?

[Rayman]

As Victor Wooten points out in his latest DVD, the electric bass guitar is a fairly young instrument in the grand scheme of things, and techniques for playing it are still evolving, as are the instruments themselves.

All power to Michael Manring for his compositions and approach to bass, might not be everyone's cup of tea, but surely he has to be admired for the creativity of the piece? However....[i]for me[/i], you can't beat a simple groove within a good song when all's said and done.

One of my favorite albums for listening to when I'm driving is Steve Lawson's Grace and Gratitude, because it's relaxing, not because of it's amazing grooves, so I wouldn't play it at a party.

I'd put Captain Manring in a similar pigeon hole, great music in the right situation, but as pointed out previously, if it doesn't work with your eyes closed and your ears open, it doesn't work at all. The visiual tricks can be annoying.

[andy67]

like him lots but keep finding myself just wanting him to play the thing!

[sdgrsr400]

Are there any vids of him playing fast? The examples above are very spacey and perhaps not representative?

[chardbass]

This is about as normal as he gets- probably demonstrates his sense of humour too

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='sdgrsr400' post='653529' date='Nov 13 2009, 12:29 PM']Are there any vids of him playing fast? The examples above are very spacey and perhaps not representative?[/quote]

(Slapping it up big-style in that one. Trouble is, he's tuned to near-standard pitch, and his ultra-light piccolo strings do that bwwwoooowww drifting-out-of-tune-when-you-slap-them thing.)


(10-string bass in that one -- 5 paired courses, mainly tuned in non-unison/octave intervals.)


(Not particularly fast, but a definite groove going on.)

None of these are the reason I like Michael Manring. I love the spacier, more melodic tracks like "The Enormous Room" and "Selene", and particularly this one (no visuals available for this tune, so you can just appreciate the chilledness):

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='653492' date='Nov 13 2009, 11:29 AM']Maybe it's because most of his audience are bassists? [/quote]

then consider this. what he's doing is effectively a recital. go to a recital featuring any instrument, brass, woodwind etc. and its a good bet that most of the people watching would either play or be familiar with the instrument. or just appreciate good music played by skilled musicians

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='funkypenguin' post='653850' date='Nov 13 2009, 05:35 PM']then consider this. what he's doing is effectively a recital. go to a recital featuring any instrument, brass, woodwind etc. and its a good bet that most of the people watching would either play or be familiar with the instrument. or just appreciate good music played by skilled musicians[/quote]
Hmmm... I can't imagine many clarinetists, oboeists, tuba players, etc. do solo gigs or recordings...!

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='653924' date='Nov 13 2009, 06:31 PM']Hmmm... I can't imagine many clarinetists, oboeists, tuba players, etc. do solo gigs or recordings...![/quote]
Our principal tuba gave a solo recital at uni last week....they happen if you know where to see them. it just so happens that manring has wound up on youtube

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='funkypenguin' post='653954' date='Nov 13 2009, 07:08 PM']Our principal tuba gave a solo recital at uni last week....they happen if you know where to see them. it just so happens that manring has wound up on youtube[/quote]
That must have been a heck of a gig. Did anyone bootleg it?

[derrenleepoole]

I think Selene is a beautiful composition full stop, regardless of how the composition is achieved. I personally find Morning Star to be a much more enjoyable lively piece too.



I think all bassists sometimes forget the the bass guitar is nothing more than a tool to get the job done. Manring happens to have a very advanced bass that stretches his musical language more than a standard bassists, and some feel, rightly or wrongly that this isn't perhaps 'bass playing' in the traditional sense. Does that really matter though? Not really. Why? Because above all else, it should be the music you should listen too first. I can find as much pleasure in a simple 1-5 blues line as I can in any complicated Manring piece. It's all the same dish, just served different garnish

Edited November 13, 2009 by derrenleepoole

[derrenleepoole]

Admittedly, even I find this a little too show-man-ship-ish!

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='Count Bassy' post='652416' date='Nov 12 2009, 11:05 AM']With all that fiddling with the D-tuner wouldn't he be better off with a five string?[/quote]


No, the changing of tuning throughout is an important part of the song.



Threads like this are a waste of time on this site. There are way too many four string plodders on here who instantly dismiss out of hand anything different to the norm.

I saw him play 'My three moons' recently. Live it's amazing to see.

Edited November 13, 2009 by 6stringbassist

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='654026' date='Nov 13 2009, 08:56 PM']There are way too many four string plodders on here who instantly dismiss out of hand anything different to the norm.[/quote]
That's the point I'm trying to make...

The fact it's played on a bass is irrelevant. I dismissed it simply because it doesn't sound very good.

[51m0n]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='654033' date='Nov 13 2009, 09:02 PM']That's the point I'm trying to make...

The fact it's played on a bass is irrelevant. [b]I dismissed it simply because it doesn't sound very good.[/b][/quote]

You are entitled to your opinion WoT but this I cant disagree with more stongly. It does sound good, very very very good in fact.

You may not like the sound, but thats not really the point, it is a great sound. Honestly mate you need to see it in the flesh, the tone of his main Zon fretless is the best fretless tone I have ever heard anywhere.

The hyperbass is pushing the boundaries of what bass sounds like (though not as far as the brilliant Jeff Schmidt does), and so tonally you may find it hard to get into, but it nevertheless sounds glorious. I've never heard better harmonics than he produces when he tap/slaps natural harmonics on that thing, its beautifully pure.

So if its not the tone its the composition you dont like. Again you are entitled to your opinion. We are going to disagree forever on this one, its so subjective. A large number of people love his work, and no they arent all bassists, at the gig I saw him at it was about 60/40 from what I could glean (not scientifically I grant you). And yes non-bassists were largely bassists' partners, but they were all appreciative too.

If you dont like it you dont like it.

But that doesnt mean it doesnt sound good really.

I know it sounds fantastic, really beautiful, having heard it in the flesh. So I dispute your opinion in fact.

There are some basses that I cant stand the sound of, a P bass with flats for instance. Dull thuddery of the most tedious kind IMO, but in the right context its a great sound. It just doesnt float my boat (and I love Motown, just not for the bass sound - I love it for the songwriting personally). But I can concede that it can be a great sound in exactly the right place. This may be a similar issue for you. You dont like the sound and you will not see the quality of the playing and composition as a result.

So we arent going to agree. But please, refrain from saying it doesnt sound very good, cos that just isnt true. You may hate it, but actually for a lot of us it sounds very good and is very good.

[51m0n]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='653924' date='Nov 13 2009, 06:31 PM']Hmmm... I can't imagine many clarinetists, oboeists, tuba players, etc. do solo gigs or recordings...![/quote]

That sir, is absurd.

I take it you dont go looking for that kind of concert at all then, because believe me they do exist, and clearly a lot more than you think. I cant imagine how you could be that sheltered from solo musicians and music written for solo musicians, honestly!

Do you stick to a few styles of music generally, in both your listening and your playing, and keep it at that?

I'm not trying to poke you with a stick, but I am genuinely intrigued as to why you cant see this for what it is.

Are you a 'meat and potatoes' bassist and proud of it, and thats the be all and end all?

What do you think of the other 'greats', Jamerson, Clarke, Jaco, Pino, King, Miller, Wooten et al?

Just trying to figure if you are just ante bass virtuosos completely, or not, and if not, where do you draw the line?

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']If you dont like it you dont like it.

But that doesnt mean it doesnt sound good really.

I know it sounds fantastic, really beautiful, having heard it in the flesh. So I dispute your opinion in fact.[/quote]

So you're allowed to say that you 'know' it sounds good, but others are not allowed to say that it doesn't sound good. Obviously you are a superior species and must be right. I haven't heard it in the flesh but I have heard it on youtube. I'll concede that the actual sound of the instrument is good/interesting and has its applications (but that again is a matter of opinion), but as a musical piece, I don't think it sounds any good in that it does nothing for me.

OK that's an opinion based on my taste in music, as your opinion is based on your taste. We have different tastes in music and that reflects in our different opinions on this. If you had said [i]I think[/i] rather than [i]I know[/i] then your post would have come over as far more resonable.

Some people here slag another for off for expressing an opinion as fact, and then go on to do exactly the same themselves! (not aimed soley at yourself 51m0n').

[wateroftyne]

ooh.. lots to get on with here...

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']You are entitled to your opinion WoT but this I cant disagree with more stongly. It does sound good, very very very good in fact. You may not like the sound, but thats not really the point, it is a great sound.[/quote]
..In your opinion. I'm very careful to use 'IMO' when I post stuff like this. I didn't on my previous post, because it referred to something I said earlier which was clearly marked 'IMO'.

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']Honestly mate you need to see it in the flesh, the tone of his main Zon fretless is the best fretless tone I have ever heard anywhere.[/quote]
Nah. I prefer Rod Clements' and Bakhitihi Kumalo's fretless tone, amongst others.

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']The hyperbass is pushing the boundaries of what bass sounds like (though not as far as the brilliant Jeff Schmidt does), and so tonally you may find it hard to get into, but it nevertheless sounds glorious. I've never heard better harmonics than he produces when he tap/slaps natural harmonics on that thing, its beautifully pure.[/quote]
Beautifully pure harmonics aren't enough to get me to buy a CD or go and see him at a gig, I'm afraid.

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']And yes non-bassists were largely bassists' partners, but they were all appreciative too.[/quote]

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']If you dont like it you dont like it.[/quote]
Indeed... I can't even remember why I got involved in this thread. I normally stay out of 'em...!

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']But that doesnt mean it doesnt sound good really. I know it sounds fantastic, really beautiful, having heard it in the flesh. So I dispute your opinion in fact.[/quote]
I'm glad you like it. Really!

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']There are some basses that I cant stand the sound of, a P bass with flats for instance. Dull thuddery of the most tedious kind IMO, but in the right context its a great sound.[/quote]
Damn right... out of context, it's an awful sound. I hate it when people A/B my 'ol P with zingy Stingray or something. It sounds dull and awful. Thankfully, it's not designed to be heard on its' own for extended periods of time at bedroom levels.

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']So we arent going to agree. But please, refrain from saying it doesnt sound very good, cos that just isnt true. You may hate it, but actually for a lot of us it sounds very good and is very good.[/quote]
It doesn't sound very good. IMO.

[wateroftyne]

..and there's more!

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']I take it you dont go looking for that kind of concert at all then, because believe me they do exist, and clearly a lot more than you think. I cant imagine how you could be that sheltered from solo musicians and music written for solo musicians, honestly![/quote]
I didn't say they don't exist. I said there aren't many of them. I'll bet most of them do the bulk of their work in larger ensembles. And I'll bet their gigs are full of woodwind players, and woodwind player's partners. (just kidding.. maybe not).

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']Do you stick to a few styles of music generally, in both your listening and your playing, and keep it at that?[/quote]
No. Why do you say that?

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']I'm not trying to poke you with a stick, but I am genuinely intrigued as to why you cant see this for what it is.[/quote]
Because it doesn't sound very good, IMO.

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']Are you a 'meat and potatoes' bassist and proud of it, and thats the be all and end all?[/quote]
Pfff... I dunno. Define 'meat and potatoes' and I'll tell ya.

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']What do you think of the other 'greats', Jamerson, Clarke, Jaco, Pino, King, Miller, Wooten et al?[/quote]
Well, since you asked.. Jamerson, Pino, Jaco I like. The rest of 'em.. not so much for various reasons. Mainly because they haven't played on songs I particularly dig.

[quote name='51m0n' post='654110' date='Nov 13 2009, 10:56 PM']Just trying to figure if you are just ante bass virtuosos completely, or not, and if not, where do you draw the line?[/quote]
Your going to have to explain that one - I'm not sure how you've arrived at that conclusion.

In the meantime, I might have a listen to The Bottom Line by Colin Hodgkinson. There's some great tunes on it...

(to everyone else who has read this tedious nonsense.. apologies for the gatecrash)

Toodle pip!

Edited November 14, 2009 by wateroftyne

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='653960' date='Nov 13 2009, 07:14 PM']That must have been a heck of a gig. Did anyone bootleg it?[/quote]

do i detect a hint of sarcasm there? it was phenomenal as it happens. he finished by playing one of the best solo pieces ive ever seen. very nearly as good as this

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0qIL2ie-VE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0qIL2ie-VE[/url]

the students dont bootleg recitals. its disrespectful when you should be listening to the performance, but the uni may have filmed it.

[andy67]

I'm with WOT on this one. I like Michael Manring in context but as I said earlier...I want to see and hear him play bass! To me, imho, it appears that he likes to play the mechanics more than the fretboard! just an observation don't bash me!! However I have an old recording of him performing 'Ghost in the Machine' Sting I think, and its awesome.

Wot, I've seen the youtube video, your tone and technique is fabulous! It really enhances the band an is bang in with the music! I'm no virtuoso nor super player, just a player who enjoys plaing livce in a band not in a bedroom nor parlor.

not to everyones taste but it works for me!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wkh14D_UN4&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wkh14D_UN4...feature=related[/url]


cheers

andy

ps Wot, please put a link up to that live performance.

Edited November 14, 2009 by andy67

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='andy67' post='654435' date='Nov 14 2009, 01:15 PM']I'm with WOT on this one. I like Michael Manring in context but as I said earlier...I want to see and hear him play bass! To me, imho, it appears that he likes to play the mechanics more than the fretboard! just an observation don't bash me!! However I have an old recording of him performing 'Ghost in the Machine' Sting I think, and its awesome.

Wot, I've seen the youtube video, your tone and technique is fabulous! It really enhances the band an is bang in with the music! I'm no virtuoso nor super player, just a player who enjoys plaing livce in a band not in a bedroom nor parlor.

cheers

andy

ps Wot, please put a link up to that live performance.[/quote]

not again.....he IS playing bass, just not playing a bass line...