Janek and Hadrien

[Rayman]

I believe that just because you're an excellent musician doesn't always mean you can sing well too. I still believe that singing is a natural talent that some have and some don't, and it's hard to get it if you don't already have some talent in the first place. Singing perfectly in tune with the notes on the bass isn't vital, if you listen to many people who do it, they're not always perfectly in tune.

Is it important to [i]be[/i] perfectly in tune when scatting along to the bassline? Don't know.

[mcgraham]

[quote]I believe that just because you're an excellent musician doesn't always mean you can sing well too[/quote]
I agree. You can't just play an instrument and expect to be great at singing too.
[quote]I still believe that singing is a natural talent that some have and some don't, and it's hard to get it if you don't already have some talent in the first place.[/quote]
I agree, insofar as some people have a natural genetic/personality based aptitude towards singing (or any other instrument for that matter!) and that, ergo, some will find it easier/ harder to progress than others... but I do not believe that the voice is different from any other instrument in that some can learn it and some cannot. Yes, there is inevitable uniqueness to each person's voice that they can't eliminate, but I believe people can achieve great tone by putting in the work in and reaping the rewards!

[Rayman]

I watched some of that programme recently where an opera producer takes a load of kids from a pretty rough background, kids who had no interest in classical music at all, in fact very much the opposite, and he ended up getting them all to sing in front of a large audience at Glyndebourne with great success. So I concur with what you say to a large degree, but I still don't believe that you can be taught to be a quality solo singer if you're hopeless to start with. Maybe part of a choir yes absolutely.

[endorka]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='889575' date='Jul 8 2010, 02:59 PM']I apologise in advance if you feel I'm putting words in your mouth here... do you think that (in general) musicians who are good, or even exceptional, on at least one instrument cannot develop/acquire similar levels of proficiency with their voice as an instrument?[/quote]

I would never say never, but certainly I have known many excellent musicians who do not have good singing voices, even if they can sing in tune. Whether they could develop a good voice by putting in the hours of practice, no-one can really say for sure.

My point is really on the here and now, however; why dilute something that sounds good by singing along with it in a not so good way? It only serves to diminish the intially good musical statement.

From a band fixing point of view, it is also rather weird. You hire someone to play guitar, and all of a sudden they start singing...

Jennifer

[Pete Academy]

I'm an amazing singer...in my head. From there to my mouth, something goes extremely wrong.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='889802' date='Jul 8 2010, 07:59 PM']I'm an amazing singer...in my head. From there to my mouth, something goes extremely wrong.[/quote]

[KevB]

Did someone mention scat?

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='KevB' post='890259' date='Jul 9 2010, 11:17 AM']Did someone mention scat?



[/quote]

[Chris2112]

[quote name='RhysP' post='889533' date='Jul 8 2010, 02:16 PM']I'm obviously missing something here, but why can't a player just "Think" it, rather than having to do it out loud?

It seems to me like the musical equivalent of moving your lips whilst reading.[/quote]

It sounds dire too, and should never be done near a microphone! In fact, I think the only person who sounded half decent doing it was Shawn Lane!

[Spoombung]

They're obviously very flashy players, but that kind of [i]easy grove/jazzy jamming music[/i] never seems to change much over the years. The music exists in a vacuum and worryingly, the players and participants seem devoid of self criticism. No one tells them that mini moog solos sound naff and dated and high-pitched bass solos with chorus sound wretched.

I never seek out this kind of music or care about it much.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='890462' date='Jul 9 2010, 02:43 PM']They're obviously very flashy players, but that kind of [i]easy grove/jazzy jamming music[/i] never seems to change much over the years. The music exists in a vacuum and worryingly, the players and participants seem devoid of self criticism. No one tells them that mini moog solos sound naff and dated and high-pitched bass solos with chorus sound wretched.

I never seek out this kind of music or care about it much.[/quote]What e sed.

[Rich]

That's cool. Don't listen to it then.

[Faithless]

What Rich said. I don't actually get people, who go into these threads just to tell, how much they don't dig MG's, Janek's or Hadrien's stuff, as if [i]we [/i]forgotten I dig Janek's, and other,as you call 'em, w***ers music, and, I know why I dig it, and somebody saying, that he doesn't like it, and not adding actual arguments, won't put me off it.. so, be cool.

Now, to be back on the road, Janek is preparing to record a new album, and make some touring on Europe.. Anyone know about any possible England dates? I hope, I'll manage to make a gig for his band in Lithuania, but I'm not sure of it yet, so, I'm also thinking about other possible places to see him..

easy
faith

Edited July 9, 2010 by Faithless

[steve-soar]

Why do you dig this kind of music, what does it make you feel?

[steve-soar]

I think Spoombung articulated his response enough to strike a chord with me. You cannot argue over any of the artistic points, because it will always be a subjective criticism.
Objectively, you could maybe develope some empirical range of bass playing, to make it scientific, speed, chordal knowledge, timing but then, it won't ever be music.
Music takes me to places inside my mind and soul, I get as far as duty free with some music.

[Spoombung]

[quote name='Faithless' post='890726' date='Jul 9 2010, 07:41 PM']What Rich said. I don't actually get people, who go into these threads just to tell, how much they don't dig MG's, Janek's or Hadrien's stuff, as if [i]we [/i]forgotten I dig Janek's, and other,as you call 'em, w***ers music, and, I know why I dig it, and somebody saying, that he doesn't like it, and not adding actual arguments, won't put me off it.. so, be cool.[/quote]


Well it is a forum here - y'know, an exchange of opinions.

I don't know if you're referring to me specifically, but I wouldn't (and didn't) describe them as w***ers - in fact I like Janek's palm mute style (I do a bit of that myself now and again). However, I don't like the music, the culture - the [i]jamming/grooving/funky/jazz[/i] thing that usually happens when guys with 'good chops' get together. If you follow the [i]groovy chops[/i] ideal you end up making the same music over and over again it seems.

If that's what you want, well, there's plenty of it. The internet is bursting at the seams with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of near -identical Youtube trade show videos just like the one we're all talking about. So enjoy it. I'm not stopping you!

[steve-soar]

Riffing over B major and F sounds good.

[mcgraham]

In an objective sense, I'd have to agree with Spoombung and Steve - a lot of it does sound quite similar! And I agree that often 'chop-heavy' musicians just end up making the same noises repeatedly.

BUT! when improvising musician's get it even partly right, it is something wonderful (at least I think it is). When Janek (for example) solos, I follow the solo the way I would follow someone telling me a story. It sounds a bit pretentious, but that's the best way to describe it for me.

[witterth]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='890976' date='Jul 10 2010, 12:10 AM']Riffing over B major and F sounds good.[/quote]
Oh Steve, just leave it,
best left Well alone, we'll ( prehaps I alone) never get it. this stuff..
But its "more to be pitied than scolded I can assure you"
(Billy Connelly crica '76)

W

[Rayman]

I agree with [i]everybody[/i]. Everyone has an opinion and a point to make, that's why we're all here. Some of us like this kind of Jazz, some don't, and that's fine. Different opinions on here are what the site is all about, as long as people don't get too shirty with each other, and we're all friends at the end. We're all bass players and musicians with different tastes, and that's what makes BC a fun place to be.

I love this kind of music, and one of my favourite things to do, is to plug into the Tascam at home, and jam along to stuff like Ronnie Jordan and Chris Standring, you can really get into a groove, and get into the "zone" as I'd put it with stuff like that, it's very relaxing and inspiring too. On the other hand, there's nothing I like more than (if I'm in the right mood) sticking on some Korn (yes [i]Korn[/i]) or some Sly and Robbie and playing to that too, horses for courses.

I'm a big Janek fan as I've said, and I've seen him live a few times, and had the pleasure of bumbing in to him a few times (and his mum on one occasion?!?) and I find both he and his music a very inspiring and uplifting thing. If you listen to something like "Mana" from "Live At The 55 Bar", complete with the story of how the song was created, for me, you can't help but feel uplifted, I was humming the brass lines for weeks afterwards. That's what I like about him, he thinks of the melodys first, and the bass is always very much a supporting instrument, he's always very aware of where the bass should be within a song without having to show off his chops every 5 minutes, unlike some players I've heard, who just seem to be saying "look at me, and look how fast I can play". I don't [i]care[/i] how fast you can play, that's not bass playing to me. Andrew Levy once said that some of the best basslines ever written consist of maybe only two or three notes, and I couldn't agree more.

[Faithless]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='890942' date='Jul 10 2010, 01:25 AM']Well it is a forum here - y'know, an exchange of opinions.

I don't know if you're referring to me specifically, but I wouldn't (and didn't) describe them as w***ers - in fact I like Janek's palm mute style (I do a bit of that myself now and again). However, I don't like the music, the culture - the [i]jamming/grooving/funky/jazz[/i] thing that usually happens when guys with 'good chops' get together. If you follow the [i]groovy chops[/i] ideal you end up making the same music over and over again it seems.

If that's what you want, well, there's plenty of it. The internet is bursting at the seams with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of near -identical Youtube trade show videos just like the one we're all talking about. So enjoy it. I'm not stopping you![/quote]

No, I wasn't reffering to specifically.
I was reffering more like to those few cats, [repeat] who just bump in to shout to everyone, how much they dislike it, and add some filthy jokes.
I know that it's forum, but [i]how the hell[/i] does those 'empty talks' correspond to the particular thread, eh?

I do go into a thread, and first of all, read through it, then, if I feel like saying/asking something sensible, I'll do so.

On the other hand, I don't go into 'Funk and Groove' just to tell others, that I don't dig James Brown - I know, most folks like him, and it's cool for me - and I understand, that expressing my negative opinion won't correspond to the whole thing, that's it..

BACK ON THREAD..

[quote name='Rayman' post='891039' date='Jul 10 2010, 10:15 AM']I'm a big Janek fan as I've said, and I've seen him live a few times, and had the pleasure of bumbing in to him a few times (and his mum on one occasion?!?) and I find both he and his music a very inspiring and uplifting thing. If you listen to something like "Mana" from "Live At The 55 Bar", complete with the story of how the song was created, for me, you can't help but feel uplifted, I was humming the brass lines for weeks afterwards.[/quote]

Huh, that's the very same about "Mana" for me..! One of the best tunes - I always start 'listening' to the tune, by firstly listening to the 'story' of it..
The whole "Live 55 Bar" thing seems a very [i]fresh [/i]piece of music to me - it's sooo different from "Mystery", as I now feel..

[Spoombung]

[quote name='Rayman' post='891039' date='Jul 10 2010, 08:15 AM']I agree with [i]everybody[/i]. Everyone has an opinion and a point to make, that's why we're all here. Some of us like this kind of Jazz, some don't, and that's fine. Different opinions on here are what the site is all about, as long as people don't get too shirty with each other, and we're all friends at the end. We're all bass players and musicians with different tastes, and that's what makes BC a fun place to be.[/quote]

Well said, Sir.

[Rich]

Trouble is, the same thing happens every time... whenever anyone tries to start a sensible discussion about this type of music, it always [i]always[/i] turns into a "it's rubbish / no it's not / yes it is / etc" playground thing. The same stuff getting posted over and over again. Some people love it, some don't. OK, we get it. Can't we just talk about it without having to constantly attack or defend it?

[mcgraham]

It's true.

On the topic of Janek/Hadrien's stuff, I have to admit I'm getting a little tired of the same stuff and would like someone to do something a little bit different again. Like Hiromi was great when I discovered her music, but now it's just getting a bit tired as even the newer stuff sounds about the same as the older stuff.

Also, does anyone else find that the recording production on some of these avantgarde jazz albums is absolutely shocking compared to even poorly recording live performances? Hiromi's last originals album was completely devoid of energy...

[Doddy]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='890837' date='Jul 9 2010, 09:44 PM']Why do you dig this kind of music, what does it make you feel?[/quote]

Exactly the same way that other people feel when they hear The Beatles or Tom Waits or whoever it is
that they really like.Just because it is possibly more technical and predominantly instrumental doesn't
make any difference,it still has the same effect.
'Riffing over B major and F' does sound good,but then again so does playing over a more complex set
of changes.

There was a reference to all these guys making the same kind of music over and over again. Maybe that is
kind of true to a point,but then again that's the same with any genre. The Blues has stayed mostly the same
for ever.Hip Hop has a large number of artists that sound exactly the same,as does pop. There are a million
bands that sound like Oasis or Arctic Monkeys or whoever. The modern Jazz scene is no different. As with any
style,if you go back you can hear the roots and how it has evolved,but the 'groovy chops' thing is kind of where
things are at right now.