Who's Changed From A Multi FX Unit To Separates or Vice-Versa

[Phaedrus]

Hi,

We all know the advantages and drawbacks of both a separate pedals set-up and a single multi-FX unit, so who's used one set-up before and changed to the other, and what are your comments/thoughts?

Why did you change? Can you see yourself changing back?

I'm particularly interested from a playing live perspective - the domain of the multi-FX unit, IMO.

I'm on the brink of buying separates, after having used an ME-50B live for a couple of years, but for the combined price of the pedals I'm looking at, a multi-FX is a cleaner, simpler solution for live work, not to mention cheaper than separates.

For my part, I need two distortions, chorus, wah and compressor. I'm not really interested in many other FX. I already have a Hartke VXL BAss Attack, so if I spend an average of €120 per pedal, that's nearly €500 on pedals . . .


Thanks for any replies,

Mark

Edited November 12, 2009 by Phaedrus

[cheddatom]

While I was gigging in a band I built up my collection (which included ibe zoom multi for guitar) and I enjoyed messing with the order and settings and just generally stamping on them.

A year or so after the drummer left and i'd only been playing drums, but I bought a GT-6B because I thought it was a bargain. I'd heard a friend using one before and it was great. I played with it (having quite a bit of fun!) for around an hour but couldn't get any usable sounds out of it. I found the menus very frustrating. For example, I have no idea how to assign the EXP pedal to anything other than volume. I'm not think, and I did have the manual with me.

Anyway, an hour was enough, I loaned it indefinitely to our bass player.

Now i'm back on the bass in a band, I love my old pedal board, but part of me thinks I should really sit down and work out how to work the GT-6B 'cos it's a hell of a lot smaller and lighter and could leave me ££££s better off if I sold my single pedals.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I have a gt-6b. Its worth messing about with for an afternoon and once you've got your head around it, its pretty straightforward.

I tend to gig with just a behringer limiter pedal for fx these days though - less to carry.

[TheButler]

Gone from several pedals to an M9.. very happy

[burno70]

[quote name='TheButler' post='653048' date='Nov 12 2009, 08:55 PM']Gone from several pedals to an M9.. very happy [/quote]

Me too, although I prefer the drive, wah and octaver pedals that I have to those on the M9 so I am keeping hold of a few pedals too.

[deej]

[quote name='burno70' post='653232' date='Nov 12 2009, 11:53 PM']Me too, although I prefer the drive, wah and octaver pedals that I have to those on the M9 so I am keeping hold of a few pedals too.[/quote]

I plan on doing a similar thing.

Mainly going to use the M9 for modulation and filters, then keep some seperate drive pedals on the board.

[Phaedrus]

With the M9, can you create patches? I don't see any mention of it on the M9 webpage or on the FAQ page.


Thanks,

Mark

[Finbar]

In a roundabout way, yes. You can set up to switch from one scene to another scene with one button press (each scene can have up to 3 active effects at once), rather than operating on several individual effects within one scene. Entirely up to you which way you want to do it, but the benefit of the M9 to me is that it is a multi FX which ISN'T patch based. It doesn't feel like a multi FX really.

[Phaedrus]

So a scene is where three of the switches have been assigned specific stompboxes of your choosing? Does a scene include the settings and on/off info you've made for the three stompboxes in use?


Thanks,

Mark

[Finbar]

A scene is a group of 6 effects (one for each footswitch) rather than 3, and basically is a pedalboard. Of these 6 effects, only 3 can be engaged at once. The 'normal' operation of the unit means you stay within one scene and turn these 6 effects on/off as you wish. You can switch to a different scene for another set of 6 effects. The M9 can store up to 24 scenes. This is referred to as 'Momentary Scenes'.

However, there is also the 'Latch Scenes' mode, where each footswitch changes to one of 6 different scenes, rather than turning a single effect on/off. The M9 will remember what was turned on and off, and what settings were adjusted every time you change something, even if you navigate to a different scene and back again, as long as the M9 is set to 'Autosave'. If that isn't your thing, then you can also set it to 'Manual Save', where it will revert to your saved preference for which effects were on/off, where all the parameters and tap tempos were etc if you change anything then navigate to a different scene and back again.

Edited November 14, 2009 by Finbar

[Phaedrus]

Am I right in thinking that with the M9, there are now three choices for effects: separate single pedals, a programmable multi-effects unit, and the M9? It seems it's not a programmable multi-FX unit in the way the Zoom B9.1ut or GT-10B or ME-50B are, but a third, different, solution - is that right?

I doubt my needs are uncommon (these are in order of priority for me):

1. Quality compressor, overdrive/distortion, chorus & wah (for me, other effects are largely superfluous or novel)
2. Consistent levels between sounds
3. No lag/delay when changing sounds
4. Durability
5. Versatility
6. Noiseless, specially when bypassed

Separate pedals would likely best cover need 1 (at a cost), but I'm guessing that higher-end multi-FX and/or the M9 could possibly give separates a run for their money.

Where separates fall down in my observation is needs 2 & 3. Stating some obvious stuff, changing from a clean un-effected tone to a tone with overdrive & chorus means switching on two pedals - there's gonna be some lag there. Also one overdrive tone may need a higher or lower level than another, so there's potential for variations in level there. Again, I know this is stating the obvious.

I'm thinking that for my needs, a decent multi-FX unit fits best. There's something really exciting & desirable about using separate pedals, but the inconvenience and level and switching-time issues are big drawbacks in a live setting. At home or in a studio (when someone other than you is paying the bill), it'd be fun and I'm sure rewarding to create great tones tweaking all the controls on each individual pedal, but to recreate those same tones in a live situation with the same separate pedals would surely be literally impossible?

At this point, I think I'll start looking at the better multi-FX units under €400. Didn't like the ME-50B switching lag, but did like the user interface. Didn't like my guitarist's and mate's GT-6 and GT-8 user-interfaces respectively, and didn't like my other guitarist's GNX4 user-interface, though I did create or hear some great tones from all those units.

I'm drawn to the B9.1ut and I'm curious about the M9, so I'll get researching them . . .


Mark

[Finbar]

[quote name='Phaedrus' post='655514' date='Nov 15 2009, 10:34 PM']Am I right in thinking that with the M9, there are now three choices for effects: separate single pedals, a programmable multi-effects unit, and the M9? It seems it's not a programmable multi-FX unit in the way the Zoom B9.1ut or GT-10B or ME-50B are, but a third, different, solution - is that right?[/quote]
Kind of. I don't see my M9 as a multi FX, but it is really. It's really all about the interface on it. It reacts like separate pedals.

[quote]I doubt my needs are uncommon (these are in order of priority for me):

1. Quality compressor, overdrive/distortion, chorus & wah (for me, other effects are largely superfluous or novel)
2. Consistent levels between sounds
3. No lag/delay when changing sounds
4. Durability
5. Versatility
6. Noiseless, specially when bypassed[/quote]
1. The M9 has all of these... Personally I'm not a fan of wah, but from the wah patches I briefly messed with, I'm not convinced by them. The overdrives aren't amazing, but they ARE good if you run them into a good amp. Definitely something to try before deciding they aren't for you.
2. The M9 has level/mix controls for most effects. I don't really have many issues here - it is just the same as using the same knobs on separate pedals, which I have done for years without problem.
3. There's no lag on the M9 that I've noticed.
4. Can't comment on it just yet, as mine is pretty new, but it seems like a massive improvement over the DL4 I used to have construction-wise.
5. The M9 is really versatile if you take some time thinking about it. It requires a bit of lateral thinking sometimes if you use a lot of effects. If you're going to use half a dozen or so as it seems, it should be easy enough.
6. I actually found the M9 to introduce noise to my signal path. However, the noise gate in the pedal will remove this noise happily. Very impressed with that noise gate.

[quote]Separate pedals would likely best cover need 1 (at a cost), but I'm guessing that higher-end multi-FX and/or the M9 could possibly give separates a run for their money.

Where separates fall down in my observation is needs 2 & 3. Stating some obvious stuff, changing from a clean un-effected tone to a tone with overdrive & chorus means switching on two pedals - there's gonna be some lag there. Also one overdrive tone may need a higher or lower level than another, so there's potential for variations in level there. Again, I know this is stating the obvious.[/quote]
Lag? You have two feet!

[quote]I'm thinking that for my needs, a decent multi-FX unit fits best. There's something really exciting & desirable about using separate pedals, but the inconvenience and level and switching-time issues are big drawbacks in a live setting. At home or in a studio (when someone other than you is paying the bill), it'd be fun and I'm sure rewarding to create great tones tweaking all the controls on each individual pedal, but to recreate those same tones in a live situation with the same separate pedals would surely be literally impossible?

At this point, I think I'll start looking at the better multi-FX units under €400. Didn't like the ME-50B switching lag, but did like the user interface. Didn't like my guitarist's and mate's GT-6 and GT-8 user-interfaces respectively, and didn't like my other guitarist's GNX4 user-interface, though I did create or hear some great tones from all those units.

I'm drawn to the B9.1ut and I'm curious about the M9, so I'll get researching them . . .


Mark[/quote]
I don't know, I've never had these level problems you seem to have with separate pedals. I always just set them to my liking, put them in a pedalboard and just open it up at a gig, and all the levels are intact. If you only want to use compressor, overdrive, wah and chorus, I'd be tempted to go with separate pedals myself. It won't take up a lot of space still.

[Phaedrus]

[quote name='Finbar' post='655605' date='Nov 16 2009, 01:02 AM']Lag? You have two feet![/quote]

How do you know?

Thanks for your replies, Finbar.

Call me talentless/skill-less/incompetent, but I don't think I could switch more than one pedal on/off at exactly the same time, like on the one of a solo piece, for example.


[quote name='Finbar' post='655605' date='Nov 16 2009, 01:02 AM']I don't know, I've never had these level problems you seem to have with separate pedals. [i]I always just set them to my liking, put them in a pedalboard and just open it up at a gig, and all the levels are intact[/i][b][/b]. If you only want to use compressor, overdrive, wah and chorus, I'd be tempted to go with separate pedals myself. It won't take up a lot of space still.[/quote]

The bit in italics is what I'm talking about. What if one tone (in addition to your clean, un-effected tone) needs a bit of overdrive, a bit of chorus, and a small level boost, but another tone needs a lot of overdrive, a bit less chorus, and a bit more level boost? That involves changing the settings on the overdrive pedal and the chorus pedal, and back again for the next song, maybe getting it right on a dark stage, in the short gap between songs . . . And what if your main tone for the whole song is slightly driven already? Do you bend down and tweak the gain to achieve the new dirtier tone?

I did have thoughts that I might run two overdrives, one chorus, one compressor, one wah and a tuner, and maybe something like a Bass Xciter. I think I'd only use one type of chorus, and would leave the compressor on all the time, and would have a light gritty drive for some songs and a full-on dirty drive for solos/fills, etc, so maybe separates [i]could[/i] work for me from a tone perspective, [b][i]but[/i][/b] I'd still have the switching-time & levels concerns.

I know that when we got a new guitarist in my covers band, he was using separate pedals, and while he really has chops and great attitude, his levels were all over the place, and never the same type of all over the place - a really loud tone might be really quiet next time, and sometimes clean tones would be louder than driven tones, sometimes vice-versa. He tried a GNX4 which sorted the levels out, but never gave the same satisfying tones.

I guess from that observation, I've developed aprehensions about separates. Is it silly to say there's a romantic attraction to separates? I really would like to have a board with the right separate pedals to give me great tones - I'd be proud & excited about it every time I opened it.

I don't want to labour this and doom the thread to the "ignore" pile - I do think member's answers to my original question would be of value to anyone looking to buy effects, so I'll stop repeating my own issues. Maybe I'll keep my mind open on separates for a while . . .

So who else has switched and is happy or regrets it?


Mark

[Phaedrus]

[quote name='Phaedrus' post='652792' date='Nov 12 2009, 04:48 PM']Hi,

We all know the advantages and drawbacks of both a separate pedals set-up and a single multi-FX unit, so who's used one set-up before and changed to the other, and what are your comments/thoughts?

Why did you change? Can you see yourself changing back?

I'm particularly interested from a playing live perspective - the domain of the multi-FX unit, IMO.

I'm on the brink of buying separates, after having used an ME-50B live for a couple of years, but for the combined price of the pedals I'm looking at, a multi-FX is a cleaner, simpler solution for live work, not to mention cheaper than separates.

For my part, [b][i]I need two distortions, chorus, wah and compressor[/i][/b]. I'm not really interested in many other FX. I already have a Hartke VXL BAss Attack, so if I spend an average of €120 per pedal, that's nearly €500 on pedals . . .


Thanks for any replies,

Mark[/quote]


Hmmm . . .

Now we may be covering Pearl Jam's Jeremy, so a MicroPOG could be on the cards (reasonably priced octave-up), and one by Kings of Leon that I'm sure a delay could do what's needed, though I suspect it's reverb (or reverb & delay), but I'm not buying a reverb for one song.

A MicroPOG could be used often enough, as could a delay, so I could accept buying them.

Is a MFX looking more cost efficient & neater now? Hmmm . . .


Mark

[DanOwens]

I couldn't do what I do without seperates. I used to use a pod but sonce going to seperates I have managed to realise my wacky imagination! For rock bass playing, though, I still resort to the pod ( a very simple multiFX.

Dan

[iamapirate]

ok, this is quite expensive, but the gigrig is always a thought. You probably know what it is, but you put all your seperates into it's 8 different loops and you select about 8 different presets, of which they can select any combination of the pedals, so you could have the 2 ODs in seperate loops (cos I don't know about you, but my OTT overdrive is crap for grit and my grit drive is crap for OTT sounds), and it's probabaly exactly what you're looking for. It's great because after the initial investment, it's cheaper in the long run as you just upgrade certain pedals.

But it's bloody expensive!

[PURPOLARIS]

This is a great topic

I've been thinking about effects recently and was wondering which route to go so I'm following this topic with a lot of interest. By the sounds of things it would be better for me to go the expensive multi-FX route (as opposed to the cheap multi fx route).

I quite fancy the Zoom one with the valve in it, I think it's the B9 and has been mentioned by the OP. Does anyone have any experience with this pedal ?

[JonnyM]

[quote name='PURPOLARIS' post='695370' date='Dec 29 2009, 08:51 AM']This is a great topic

I've been thinking about effects recently and was wondering which route to go so I'm following this topic with a lot of interest. By the sounds of things it would be better for me to go the expensive multi-FX route (as opposed to the cheap multi fx route).

I quite fancy the Zoom one with the valve in it, I think it's the B9 and has been mentioned by the OP. Does anyone have any experience with this pedal ?[/quote]

I changed from separates - Compressor, OD & Fuzz in a loop, Octaver, Trem, and Delay/Reverb - to a Zoom B9.1ut and have no regrets whatsoever

The reasons I changed were:

I wanted to add to the board, but that would have meant making bigger one, 'cos I'd run out of room.

The whole caboodle, with a power supply and case, was pretty heavy and getting bigger would, of course, have meant more weight.

The main reason though, was playing live was a pain, having to tweak pedals between and sometimes during songs - and not always getting it right either! Also, people said it looked weird that I kept "disappearing" - ie bending down to do "something". (Not being musos, they didn't know exactly what I was doing, but the observation was that it detracted from the performance somewhat).

I definitely didn't want to compromise on sound quality for the sake of comfort or ease of use though.

All these drawbacks and pitfalls have been addressed with the B9.1ut: it's got more effects than I'll ever need and once you get into editing, they sound really good. They can be easily tweaked and saved - even during soundcheck if needs be. It's pretty light but sturdy, has stereo DIs and an excellent bypass. The control pedal is unique as it has horizontal as well as vertical movement, all programmable. And obviously there's no need to bend down - it's all in the footwork!

Oh and seeing as lag has been mentioned, IME it tends to be a problem with multi effects, but the Zoom has, they say, the fastest switching of any multi: 7 milliseconds. Whatever, it's as fast as any separate I've used, that is to say in the real world the Zoom has no lag or drop-out when switching.

Okay, so it's not been made by a pedal genius in a shed in the Estonia and painted by some maverick artist, but stepping away from pedal snobbery, this multi just does the trick(s). Can't see myself going back to separates, unless I get a gig where I only need one effect like, say, a overdrive...

And I've even got used to the color

[Cat Burrito]

I have a Line 6 Bass Floor Pod which is highly compact and has some great settings as well as a bunch I don't use. I've used individual pedals in the past which is certainly a sure fire way to target the tones you are aiming for. However I found the Multi FX unit much more portable which is a strong factor for why I choose them. I tend to find I try and get by with getting just the best tone I can from the bass to the amp & not using effects. It changes all the time.

[Phaedrus]

[quote name='JonnyM' post='695950' date='Dec 29 2009, 10:05 PM']The main reason though, was playing live was a pain, [b][i]having to tweak pedals between and sometimes during songs - and not always getting it right either![/i][/b] Also, people said it looked weird that I kept "disappearing" - ie bending down to do "something". (Not being musos, they didn't know exactly what I was doing, but the observation was that it detracted from the performance somewhat).[/quote]

The bit in bold italics is the bit that I'm concerned with.

I guess maybe it comes down to what you're doing with any effects you're using - for a live covers band, a good MFX may be more apropriate. For a guy at home or in a studio, experimenting and trying to perfectly nail that unusual tone he has in his head, maybe separates are the way to go.

If I bought all the pedals I now think I might need, the total cost would be over €1000 (though I already have the DT-10 & VXL) . . .

DT-10 - €100
Weeping Demon - €130
Bass Blogger - €70
MicroPOG - €190
Sweeper - €130
#1 Echo - €70
Bass Xciter - €120
Punch Factory - €120
VXL Bass Attack - €100

I've been excited about the prospect of using separate pedals, but wary of the cost and the continuous tweaking that'd be involved.

IMO, this . . .



looks cooler than this . . .



But I guess how your pedalboard looks is less important than how suitable your FX set-up is for your application.

The B9.1ut is €320 - that's €600 or so cheaper than if I chose separates. Or in other words, €130 shy of the price of a new Peavey amp/cab set-up . . .

JohnnyM - do you use the B9.1ut's DI live? If yes, how do you find it? What else have you used to compare it with? Pity Zoom didn't make the bass MFX in black like the guitar ones - the red is gick.


Keep the opinions coming guys - this is good.

Mark

[JonnyM]

[quote name='Phaedrus' post='696087' date='Dec 30 2009, 04:44 AM']The bit in bold italics is the bit that I'm concerned with.

I guess maybe it comes down to what you're doing with any effects you're using - for a live covers band, a good MFX may be more apropriate. For a guy at home or in a studio, experimenting and trying to perfectly nail that unusual tone he has in his head, maybe separates are the way to go.

If I bought all the pedals I now think I might need, the total cost would be over €1000 (though I already have the DT-10 & VXL) . . .

DT-10 - €100
Weeping Demon - €130
Bass Blogger - €70
MicroPOG - €190
Sweeper - €130
#1 Echo - €70
Bass Xciter - €120
Punch Factory - €120
VXL Bass Attack - €100

I've been excited about the prospect of using separate pedals, but wary of the cost and the continuous tweaking that'd be involved.

IMO, this . . .



looks cooler than this . . .



But I guess how your pedalboard looks is less important than how suitable your FX set-up is for your application.

The B9.1ut is €320 - that's €600 or so cheaper than if I chose separates. Or in other words, €130 shy of the price of a new Peavey amp/cab set-up . . .

JohnnyM - do you use the B9.1ut's DI live? If yes, how do you find it? What else have you used to compare it with? Pity Zoom didn't make the bass MFX in black like the guitar ones - the red is gick.


Keep the opinions coming guys - this is good.

Mark[/quote]

Plenty of top bass guitarists playing original music use separates live, but they often have custom boards that almost work like a multi... One other thing to consider when using a big ol' board: if an interconnect goes faulty, you are royally screwed. Yup, all those fancy pedals can suddenly be rendered useless. It only ever happened to me once and in a rehearsal fortunately, but it took about 30mins to figure out which interconnect was the problem and fix it. Not funny and it was a major factor in me looking for alternatives.

And don't forget in your separates scenario, you'll have to factor in the cost of a power supply, interconnects, a pedalboard and case. That's a whole lot of extra wedge to find, not that I'm trying to put you off or anything

I have used the DI live and I believe the sound person's words were, "Now [i]that's[/i] a great bass sound!" Although he was referring to the bypassed tone, I took from that that the DI was ok I've used a Sansamp as a DI and it was good, but I never got on with it's scooped tone... Tried a few multis a long time ago, so I don't know how more recent MFX compare with the B9.1. The lag and dropout when switching really put me off and the bypassed tone was universally bad. The new MFX are very different to those old tone-suckers though.

Yeah, the red isn't great but really, who cares? Who even notices effects boards except other musos and if it works for you, the coolness factor is irrelevant IMHO. If I ever make it big, I might pay someone to re-box it. Hell, on a rainy day with nothing else to do, I might even crack open some old Airfix paints and give it a custom paint job myself!

One point: the B9.1 has a built-in tuner, so you won't need an external one. You can probably get rid of the VXL too

Edited December 30, 2009 by JonnyM

[Phaedrus]

[quote name='JonnyM' post='696502' date='Dec 30 2009, 05:28 PM']One point: the B9.1 has a built-in tuner, so you won't need an external one. You can probably get rid of the VXL too [/quote]

My ME-50B had a built in "tuner" too. So does my rhythm guitarist's GT-8. Neither was any real use. Can the B9.1ut's built-in tuner really compare to something like my DT-10 or a TU-2?

And I take it from your [s]gushing[/s] enthusing about the DI ( ) that it'd be a useable alternative to my VXL Bass Attack?


Mark

[JonnyM]

[quote name='Phaedrus' post='697619' date='Dec 31 2009, 10:38 PM']My ME-50B had a built in "tuner" too. So does my rhythm guitarist's GT-8. Neither was any real use. Can the B9.1ut's built-in tuner really compare to something like my DT-10 or a TU-2?

And I take it from your [s]gushing[/s] enthusing about the DI ( ) that it'd be a useable alternative to my VXL Bass Attack?


Mark[/quote]

Well, the Zoom's tuner has no problem tracking low notes, even low B string tuned down to an A. I've not done direct comparisons with a DT-10 or TU-2, but what I do know is tuning up with the Zoom has never given me problems - I tune up, I'm in tune with myself & other instruments and that's it really - what more do you want from a tuner?! Ok, it's probably not as accurate as a Sonic Research tuner, but then nor is a DT-10 or a TU-2

The VXL is a DI with tone shaping and seeing as the B9.1 has both capabilities, I don't see why you need the VXL. My criteria for a DI is: does it work noiselessly and without degrading the signal or getting complaints from sound engineers I've used the B9.1's DI(s) for live & recording and the answer is yes on all counts, so it's less "enthusing", more "yup, this works in these circumstances, I can forget about it"

[Schnozzalee]

I'm just starting out with FX, have no idea what to get - I know flanger, chorus etc from my Roland Cube and Boss Dr880, I'm think i'm going to stick with Boss and go for the GT-10B cos its the most expensive so I reckon it'll be the best... Any recommendations for other MFX??? I haven't the time, money or experience to seek out specific pedals.