No Pain, No Gain?

[Hector]

[quote name='timbo1978' timestamp='1376589672' post='2176596']
Question... did you use the weichs to take pressure off your left hand/arm? And did the d'addirios also help in this area? Do you find the volume is better from the d'addirios?

Sorry for all the questions, but strings are so expensive I want to get it right!!!
[/quote]

No worries man, getting the right strings is tough for sure!

I originally had some unidentified/unnamed strings on there before switching to the weichs, pretty much on the recommendation of more experienced players in my area. I did find they were a lot easier on the hands and the bass was a lot more playable, but I have absolutely no idea what the strings were before.

I enjoyed those for a good few years until my recent change. I found the spiros (G in partcular) to be a little lacking, and it often sounded a bit nasal. Probably because they were bright strings and I have quite a bright bass. I figured since I was experimenting with the G, I would try all the rest of the strings too! Ended up with the helicore hybrids, but decided to try a zyex G (as a poorman's alternative to a velvet anima or pirastro oliv). They're all mediums I think (will check when I'm at home). That set feels like it really projects much more, got loads of compliments on my sound after changing. I think the G especially I was pleased with - the difference is best described as someone singing with a cold before, and without a cold afterwards. The helicores are nice too, a gold bit of oomph behind each note. The whole set has a very lively, rich sort of sound, quite powerful with a good bit of body behind it. I haven't really noticed a detriment in how the bass plays, relative to the sprios.

The string game is a tough one, based on how particular players sound on particular basses, not to mention that everyone has their own bass sound in their head to strive for. I spent lots of time chatting with teachers/other players and taking into account how my bass reacted to spirocores as a litmus test to deal with the variable of my bass' own tonal characteristics. I now have something I'm pretty happy with, and the bass sounds like the real deal as far as I'm concerned. I might experiment in the future, but current set sounds great and doesn't break the bank. I think there's a good deal of "grass is greener" sort of thinking with strings, which I try to avoid. Would rather focus on the "hector's pizz technique" part of the equation for the forseeable

This is all train of thought dashed off on my phone while supposed to be working so might be a little incomprehensible! Feel free to PM me with questions. If you're ever in Oxford, you'd be very welcome for a cup of tea and some string chat/try my bass out if it would help.

EDIT - Here's what the Gollihur website (Bob and Mark G are both excellent and knowedgable people, whose combined opinion I trust very much) says about the Zyex strings: http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/2162-DADDARIO_ZYEX_UPRIGHT_BASS_STRINGS.html

Edited August 16, 2013 by Hector

[timbo1978]

Thanks for that Hector.

Yes, my fear would be getting strings which while easier to play, have less depth in their tone. Especially as I mostly play amplified and don't want to add another obstacle to getting a good sound. It's interesting that you don't fine the hybrids any harder to play (good to hear),since that was my main reason for going for the soft string.

That's great link too. The corelli 370's sound interesting too.

I think I will really have to take my time and get as much info as possible before making my choice.

Thanks for your help :-)

Edited August 17, 2013 by timbo1978

[ubassman]

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1376645616' post='2177196']
The string game is a tough one, based on how particular players sound on particular basses,
[/quote]

Too true Hector!

The challenge is that each bass has its own unique fingerprint in terms of engineering, construction , set up , craftsmanship , tone, playability, sound etc. Strings on the other hand are produced in factory conditions to give a reliable and repeatable product. The difference in the mensur alters the tension and sound of a string, the quality of the bridge affects the tone, the height of the bridge affects string tension and loudness, the thickness of the top can produce a mellow rich tone or a more brittle sound ....no two basses are alike ! but you got to have a starting point and I think recommendation from fellow players is as good as it gets !

[Rabbie]

A change of string from medium to weich will help your purposes without involving any change of setup or technique (which you would need if you decided to switch to let's say guts). Just to throw another idea on your table, why don't you try Velvet Blues: they are excellent strings for the use you make of the db. The Blues are light in tension yet they have excellent tone and they are surprisingly loud. As an added bonus they are amongst the cheapest quality strings you will find (about £120 me thinks). I had them on one of my basses for a while and I loved them for long gigs especially. I only stopped using Velvets when I decided to make the switch to guts.
Evah Pirazzi weichs are also great. I was never a fan of Spiros, weichs or otherwise just because all that growl is not my cup of tea.
Sorry to confuse you more, just thought the Blues would be worth a look for you.

Edited August 17, 2013 by Rabbie

[timbo1978]

[quote name='Rabbie' timestamp='1376731767' post='2178444']
I loved them for long gigs especially
[/quote]
Thanks Rabbie, will tAke a look at those. I've been playing 4 hour gigs at a local market which have really hurt the tendons in my forearm, and have a 5 hour wedding fair coming up soon, so your recommendation is welcome!

[ubassman]

Have you ruled out that theres not something else 'postural' going on other than just playing for long periods of time ?

I only say this in that I regularly have double 3 hour long rehearsals split with a 2 hour lunch break. Great for growing calluses on both hands but so far to date I haven't had the misfortune to suffer from aching tendons . I do sit when I play and it means that I don't support any weight at all with my hands - the instrument is supported on my knees and body leaving my hands completely free to do what they want.

One of the hard issues standing for a long time is keeping the instrument still, upright and vertical such that the hands aren't doing any work to 'lend a hand' ...could it be that that is going on?

[timbo1978]

Definitely ubassman, I only messed about with the db before joining the trio, and I soon learned my technique was to blame. I was squeezing the neck rather than pulling back with my bigger muscles. I think I also need to relax more when playing. It's taking me time to correct everything - keep catching myself back in the old stance. I am looking for the best marriage of lightness and tone in a string to assist.

Luckily there's great forums like this, as well as loads of info on YouTube. I read a great book called 'the Alexander technique for double bass' that got me started, and Luke McIntosh from 'become a better bassist' website has been helping me too.

[Bilbo]

I had three gigs this weekend, a Bazilian gig on electric, a jazz gig with Polly Gibbons and a 5-piece on Saturday follwed by a gig with saxophonist Julian Nicholas on Sunday. Today, I feel like I have been shifting bricks all weekend - it hurts to type Not muscles or blisters, just 'wear' and fatigue!! The Nicholas gig was a monster but I knew when we started that my 50-year old body would be complaining by the end of the night!!

[ubassman]

Whereabouts you aching old man?

[Dad3353]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1384782323' post='2280602']
Whereabouts you aching old man?
[/quote]

Felixstowe..?

[Bilbo]

The whole shebang! Thumbs, hands, arms, feet, legs, back, eyelids, teeth....

[ubassman]

...thats all part of becoming an amazing player by the looks of it !

[Jezyorkshire]

just dug up this old thread as i think i have been overdoing it since getting another double bass about 8 weeks ago, i have recently started bowing for the first time and i find that i dig in more with the left hand when im not bowing! or it seems to me like i do? i think the strain is partly due to an increase in practice time and the scoop on the fingerboard under the little finger in half position, i am playing some original music with a guy and a couple of his tunes have me playing lots of C and G notes with my little finger, the C causes more strain as the relief under the A string is more than the E string, i did have the relief made eaisier but i think that there is probably to much under the A and D strings(especially the A) ,looking down the board over the nut it has a look of those 2 strings being higher than the E and G much like you expect in a bridge set up for bowing, my little finger is getting very fatigued in half position, the musclebelow the little finger on the outside of hand is strained.

[fatgoogle]

Are you supporting your little finger correctly with your third? Unless your playing very fast passages the third and little should act as one.

[Jezyorkshire]

HI Fatgoogle, do you mean that the third should be also pressing on the string same time as little finger? but behind the little finger, not on top?

[fatgoogle]

Yes, well i would have said in front of? but not on top. So your third and you little finger should be pressing the string down along the string at the same time.

[Jezyorkshire]

thanks mate ,will have to check on that and see what i am doing, i suspect it may be a bit hit and miss at the moment, i wasnt fully aware that it was the correct thing to do but makes sense!

[Hector]

Jez I forget but have you had any lessons?

[Jezyorkshire]

Hi Hector, no have not had lessons, its 2 years ago that i stopped playing double bass, i played for 3 years before and never had this problem, i think its caused by increasing playing too quickly and too much fingerboard scoop under the a string in particular around C when playing that note with little finger, i may not be supporting it enough with third?

[oggiesnr]

[quote name='Jezyorkshire' timestamp='1395936624' post='2408188']
Hi Hector, no have not had lessons, its 2 years ago that i stopped playing double bass, i played for 3 years before and never had this problem, i think its caused by increasing playing too quickly and too much fingerboard scoop under the a string in particular around C when playing that note with little finger, i may not be supporting it enough with third?
[/quote]

I would suggest a couple of lessons to make sure your posture and hand position are correct if nothing else. It's easy to do yourself a lot of damage playing double bass.

Steve

[Hector]

I just reckon this sort of thing is easiest explained in person, and a good teacher can quickly help you clear up any mistakes in your technique that might cause damage in the longer run.

[Jezyorkshire]

aye i have to agree, i do think my last bass had a flatter board and my new bass may need a little adjustment as well, i have checked my third finger support when using little finger and it wasnt consistent, though generally my left hand is quite disciplined as far as i can tell, Geoff is nearest to me and could do with some bowing advice also, thanks for advice guys

[fatgoogle]

http://www.bassguitarmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/8/2013/04/Hand-Position-3.jpg

As you can see the 1st,2nd and 3rd are pressed down supporting the little finger. Get this hand position really really solid and youll be set.

Note when you get into vibrato youll probably start to lift your 1st and 2nd a bit to allow freedom of movement but get the original hand position really solid.

[timbo1978]

I only recently found out that the reason you use the third and fourth finger together is because they share a tendon, whereas the middle and index finger have their own tendon.

I was making this mistake and now include chromatic runs up the finger board with a solid hand shape at the start of any practice or warm up.

[Jezyorkshire]

thanks fatgoogle, thats great, had a bluegrass rehearsal tonight and i dont have any pain when playing just a little sore after, i think my age is beginning to tel as well lol