No Pain, No Gain?

[Doddy]

Nice one buddy.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='790014' date='Mar 29 2010, 09:56 PM']Well, I did it.

My first double bass gig. Three 45 minute sets of jazz standards in a piano/sax/bass trio (the b******s made no concessions to my limted skills - I played faster and longer last night than I have since getting the bass in December!!!). Exhausting for me and my playing was not exactly radical but everyone was happy and was offered another gig on the strength of it. To be honest, I had the Wal with me but only turned to it for the last two tunes having started to get the beginnings of a blister on each hand. I have managed to avoid those developing. More importantly, no hand pain after the fact - a bit sore (like if you have been shifting bricks or something) but, after a nights sleep, no problems.

Technique was not perfect but whatever was wrong with it, I wasn't doing any harm. Lots to think about, to process and more learning points that I can count but, quiet victories, I did it.[/quote]
I feel a quiet sense of pride...
Well done mate.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='790052' date='Mar 29 2010, 10:28 PM']I feel a quiet sense of pride... [/quote]

And so you should. Were it not for you, all this would still be an 'I wish....'.

[TPJ]

Nice one, glad it's all paid off.

Gigging on DB is such a blast.

[OutToPlayJazz]

The only thing you can really do to avoid the pain & blisters is to pace yourself. Strangely, I find I get more damage from orchestral playing, as the pizzicato is a different technique. When I'm using a DB for the big band stuff I tend to play very gently and have the amplifier turned up quite high

[geoffbassist]

I've enjoyed the thread guys. Double bass is worth the hassle and with lessons from a good teacher anyone,anysize can play in comfort. I've also loved the way it has let me play in a wider range of genres. The extra gigs pay for the expense!

[fatback]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='790014' date='Mar 29 2010, 09:56 PM']Well, I did it.

My first double bass gig. Three 45 minute sets of jazz standards in a piano/sax/bass trio (the b******s made no concessions to my limted skills - I played faster and longer last night than I have since getting the bass in December!!!). Exhausting for me and my playing was not exactly radical but everyone was happy and was offered another gig on the strength of it. To be honest, I had the Wal with me but only turned to it for the last two tunes having started to get the beginnings of a blister on each hand. I have managed to avoid those developing. More importantly, no hand pain after the fact - a bit sore (like if you have been shifting bricks or something) but, after a nights sleep, no problems.

Technique was not perfect but whatever was wrong with it, I wasn't doing any harm. Lots to think about, to process and more learning points that I can count but, quiet victories, I did it.[/quote]

Big congratz to you.

Inspiring for us types who are sniffing around but haven't made the big jump yet.

[geoffbassist]

Do it!

BTW jakes pics and advice are great.

[thisnameistaken]

Nice one Bilbo! That's a lot of playing for a debut.

I'm still thumping away at home, intending to take it out in the street if summer ever arrives, otherwise my first gig on DB will be August bank holiday weekend at a local festival so plenty of time to get in shape.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='790458' date='Mar 30 2010, 11:58 AM']Nice one Bilbo! That's a lot of playing for a debut.[/quote]

It felt like it, it really did and I was sweating like a blacksmith at noon on a summers day in Death Valley. My strategy was to keep going until blisters were a possiblity then pick up the Wal. But, after two sets, my fingers weren't even sore. Halfway throught the third I thought 'uh-oh', that familiar burning pain so I stopped. But, by then, I had already done twice as much as I had expected and some of the tempos were much faster than I had thought I was capable of so it was helpful to be pushed past my comfort zone. Staying focussed on maintaining good left hand fingering and not over playing with the right hand stood me in good stead. I rarely went above the fifth position and only went to the thumb once (ouch) but it was fit for purpose. As I said, it wasn't perfect by any means, but I didn't make a t** of myself either so here's to the future!!!

[bassace]

Well done Bilbo. Did you go home smiling - I bet you did!

[bassadder]

Hi Guys

Very interesting thread, seems that there is real resurgence in the double bass which is great. I'm another that came to the double bass late I was 35+ but have had the good fortune to meet some great players and teachers along the way that have helped shape my approach to the instrument and given me the skills to go out and earn part of my living doing something I love.

I whole heartedly agree with Geoff I think everyone wanting to play double bass should find themselves a good teacher/mentor and doesn't necessarily mean another double bass player it helps but it's the be all and end all. I'm currently studying with a great teacher who's first instrument is tenor sax, but he's master improvisor and has created his own musical theory based on his experience.

THIS MY EXPERIENCE SO FAR if it helps anyone else.

So I've already played for several years before studying with my new teacher and have had several fantastic teachers already.

Now my goal is to be a really good in demand jazz double bass player, I love classical music but I just don't have the time to do both so being honest with what's actually achievable was really important to me.

So my current teacher/mentor has taken apart my technique, from how to stand with the bass, where and how to put my hands on the bass to create the best tone, worked on getting rid of my bad habits etc. We've worked hard on ear training which I still find difficult I'm getting better as I work at it all the time (as jazz is an aural tradition it's incredible important that we don't neglect this), we study rhythm, form, (which are non-negotionable) musical analysis, repertoire, intonation which come from ear training and knowing the melody of the tune (as well as arco training), metronome studies, (very important indeed) walking line construction from triads to more conceptual approaches, soloing etc. etc.

I still take lessons once a week for 2 hours and work at least an hour a day on technique and things related to the lessons, on top that is all the other stuff that I practice singing, repertoire, musical analysis, metronome excerises etc. so I do up to 2 hours a day if I can need I do rehearsal and gigs on top of that. Now I know not everyone is this position but I can get to where I've got now I think anyone can, a good teacher stops you wasting time and focuses you on what you need to be a better player.

Hope this helps.

Laurence

[Bilbo]

[quote name='bassace' post='790609' date='Mar 30 2010, 02:13 PM']Well done Bilbo. Did you go home smiling - I bet you did![/quote]

As the great Alan Freeman said 'Not arf'!!!!

Now I am at the point where I am getting frustrated at any time NOT spent playing the bass. Now I know I can actually do it, I want to get as good as I can at it. One of the great hurdles, I find, is the fact that you go from being a credible/good electric player to being a real beginner on the double bass in one moment. I can pretty much hold my own in most settings on the Wal but struggle to play anything other than triads on the upright. What does transfer is your musicality so I have that as a starting point but, technically, its like starting all over again. But its good to revisit the basics again.

[thisnameistaken]

Yeah I've had to go right back to basics, but it's nice to take pride in a few notes well played. No doubt in a few months I'll be back to too many notes played badly so I'm going to enjoy this while I can.

[Bilbo]

I am always one to share my learning so here is a tip for everyone who is trying the upright for the first time.

Don't slice the top of the index finger of your left hand with a bread knife. Damn those hot cross buns!

Now waiting patiently (not) for it to heal before tackling Cherokee at 340 bpm....

[TPJ]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='797360' date='Apr 6 2010, 11:36 AM']I am always one to share my learning so here is a tip for everyone who is trying the upright for the first time.

Don't slice the top of the index finger of your left hand with a bread knife. Damn those hot cross buns!

Now waiting patiently (not) for it to heal before tackling Cherokee at 340 bpm....[/quote]
You play enough DB and you won't be able to cut the skin for callouses

[Hector]

[quote name='TPJ' post='797481' date='Apr 6 2010, 01:12 PM']You play enough DB and you won't be able to cut the skin for callouses [/quote]

So true! After practicing my higher position playing over the last month, I've had Nasa pop round for some skin samples off the edge of my thumb - if they can replicate it, they'll be able to use it to protect space shuttles during atmospheric re-entry.

[Bilbo]

You will all be pleased to note that my finger is now mostly healed so I am back on course for practising. Mrs. Baggins os off to her mother's tomorrow so I can get some real time in and nail that Cello Suite (yeah, right!!)

In the meantime, in case anyone thought this was getting too easy, I stabbed myself in the thumb on my right hand yesterday so my dedicated double thumbing practice time on electric will have to defer to the double bass for the time being. Not a pain thing, I don't use that thumb for anything on the double bass, but the blood pouring out of the wound does ruin the carpets so I have it taped up like Mark King!!

I never though bass playing would be as hazardous as a contact sport.

[Bilbo]

Did my second ever double bass gig last Sunday and my first with a drummer; Roger O'Dell from Shakatak. Chris Ingham and Kevin Flanagan completed the quartet on piano and sax respectively, both tutors at the Anglia Ruskin University in Cambridge. No pressure there, then .

Three sets but I only managed two on the double bass as Kevin and Roger made no concessions to my status as a 'learner' and played some pretty choppy tunes. I could have kept going but, as Chris said, the impetus went out of my playing as my arms started to flag. Usual suspects: Green Dolphin Street, My One and Only Love, Straight No Chaser, a rhythm changes tune, Once I Loved, Corcovado, Meditation etc - some of it came off quite nicely and my solos have improved for having slowed down and because my cliched 'pattern playing' has been curtailed by the change of instrument.

I used a pick up for the first time: a KK Sound Double Big Twin from Golihur Music in the US. Easy to fit but now I have a whole new aspect of sound reinforcement to learn about. The sound was ok for the gig but, as Chris said, it was over eq'd because I was using my Eden and its electronics were set for an electric and tweaked rather than properly eq'd for the upright. I am sure that will come over time. I will probably need to think about a change of amp for doubloe bass. I have the SWR/GK set up but I don't think it delivers

But, in a nutshell, I did it. Nobody died and, other than a bit of legit fatigue on the day, no pain. Was practising again the next day with no residual discomfort.

I have another gig there in a couple of weeks with Malcolm Miles, and alto player and teacher at Colchester Institut; another local legend. Ah well! In at the deep end!!

[TPJ]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='820687' date='Apr 27 2010, 02:41 PM']Ah well! In at the deep end!![/quote]

There's no other way really

Glad to hear the playing is going well and nothing is hurting, except maybe the old fingertips.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='TPJ' post='820739' date='Apr 27 2010, 03:34 PM']Glad to hear the playing is going well and nothing is hurting, except maybe the old fingertips.[/quote]

Interestingly, no blisters. Nothing. It wasn't until I put my hands into hot water later that night that I felt anything at all. Then it felt a little tender but only under the heat. Weird. I was expecting more but I guess 30 years of electric bass playing has some effect on callouses.

[thisnameistaken]

You were probably picking a bit lighter if you were amplified for the first time.

My amplified sound sucks. I think I need more gear.

[Greydad]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='820850' date='Apr 27 2010, 04:57 PM']... I think I need more gear. [/quote]

You probably don't. I've gone the other way - ditched the amp and just playing acoustically as much as I can until I get my sound right and finger strength up. Prefer the sound to be honest - when I did amp I just used a DI into a powered PA speaker and that sounded cleanest to me.

Recently discovered Edgar Meyer playing on Skip Hop & Wobble though and now desperately want to learn how to bow... the solo on Squeezy Pig, just amazing

[Bilbo]

I did a 3 sets double bass gig yesterday with Colin Watling, an East Anglia based tenor saxophonist of some considerable merit. He is a fiery player and enjoys playing at rapid tempos (we did a version of 'Donna Lee' where I could barely sustain the walking lines on electric, never mind play the head.... to be fair, he did apologise afterwards as he 'didn't mean it to be that quick' ). In short, I have now got my [b]first double bass [/b]blister (index finger, right hand) .

It was inevitable, really, but I feel like I have been through some sort of inititation. What was nice was that the pianist was heard to say 'we have another double bass player in the Area'.

Just not tonight, ay?

[thisnameistaken]

Man I'm so jealous you're getting all these DB gigs already Bilbo, even if you do have to play jazz.

I'm taking mine to meet my drummer and guitarist on Wednesday, plan is to get an hour or so of old '60s Jamaican pop songs down and go busk them if it ever stops snowing...