halfmanhalfdrum Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 [quote name='Clarky' post='1307786' date='Jul 18 2011, 01:17 PM']Towards the end of our 75 minute set at the Upton Blues festival yesterday I got cramp in each hand and my left hand curled up like a claw - I had to really use ingenuity to keep playing (used the side of my right hand thumb to pluck for most of a song and to use one very mobile left hand finger to keep the riff up!) Managed to stretch my hands after the song and just about got through the rest of the set. I obviously need to do more hand conditioning if we are going to play longer sets more often. Has anyone else experienced this problem with a DB and - building up hand strength aside - do you have any tips for alleviating the issue if it strikes?[/quote] I get the same problem, but not all the time. I can practice for hours without any problem but on some gigs my hands are tense after a couple of numbers. I put it down to stress as I can usually alleviate it by relaxing and taking a few deep breaths. I also switch to electric if it becomes a problem. I also give myself a good talking to in the break and this helps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 [quote name='halfmanhalfdrum' post='1308288' date='Jul 18 2011, 07:29 PM']I get the same problem, but not all the time. I can practice for hours without any problem but on some gigs my hands are tense after a couple of numbers. I put it down to stress as I can usually alleviate it by relaxing and taking a few deep breaths. I also switch to electric if it becomes a problem. I also give myself a good talking to in the break and this helps![/quote] Thanks! I'm not sure I was stressed so much as fatigued. The acoustic set earlier that afternoon included some really fast repetitive swing/jive bass lines (Jump, Jive n Wail; Caldonia) so I was a bit tired before I even started the full 75-minute RB set. I think a powerball or similar might be best for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 (edited) Maybe not relevant, but in sport, cramps are more likely if you're dehydrated or lack potassium. Bananas can sort the minerals problem. Getting the same symptom in both hands is more easily explained if the cause is systemic rather than just plain old overuse. I'm not a medic btw, so take with pinch of potassium. Edited July 19, 2011 by fatback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 [quote name='Clarky' post='1307786' date='Jul 18 2011, 01:17 PM']Towards the end of our 75 minute set at the Upton Blues festival yesterday I got cramp in each hand and my left hand curled up like a claw - I had to really use ingenuity to keep playing (used the side of my right hand thumb to pluck for most of a song and to use one very mobile left hand finger to keep the riff up!) Managed to stretch my hands after the song and just about got through the rest of the set. I obviously need to do more hand conditioning if we are going to play longer sets more often. Has anyone else experienced this problem with a DB and - building up hand strength aside - do you have any tips for alleviating the issue if it strikes?[/quote] I think that the excitement of a live show leads to slightly poorer technique sometimes (I know it does with me), so relaxing into it and really focusing on having iron hands in velvet gloves is important. A lot of issues with technique and posture only become apparent after playing for a long time, but can affect your playing all the time in a small way (if that makes sense). You'd be surprised how much you tend to tense up portions of your neck, shoulders, arms and hands when a bit nervous/excited. Made easier by relaxed technique in the practice room, spending time focusing on your posture. I know Gary Peacock is a big advocate of "reintroducing" himself to his bass each time he plays it, and there's a lot to be said for an awareness of your posture and what each muscle is doing (although he did seriously trip balls during the 60s, he still makes sense!) Also stretch out your hands properly before and after the gig, as well as in between numbers if needed. Hydration and eating bananas both help combat cramps, or even drinking some sports drinks. These things shouldn't really be that necessary with the technique stuff - couldn't see PC drinking gatorade between sets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 Playing with Nic France again on Sunday (my regular guy is still out of commission) and this guy: [url="http://www.anglia.ac.uk/ruskin/en/home/faculties/alss/deps/mpa/staff/kevin_flanagan.html"]http://www.anglia.ac.uk/ruskin/en/home/fac...n_flanagan.html[/url] Its getting exciting. I have to say that, whilst I can play 'more' on the Wal, I am really enjoying the double bass. It makes me sweat and my hands/arms are occasionally sore at the end of a gig but I still love it. I can now deliver 2 sets on double bass without any problems. Still taking the electric as back up, though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockabillybob1 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 you want to try slapping one for two hours we do two hour spots with frantic bass playing and slapping yeh it hurts at first then you build up your muscles and callouses and thats your protection but all great fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Just got home from 2 weeks away from my bass. Feels like the finger strength has faded massively, seriously not cool... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 [quote name='ZMech' timestamp='1317679084' post='1393349'] Just got home from 2 weeks away from my bass. Feels like the finger strength has faded massively, seriously not cool... [/quote] Yep, takes ages to build and a fraction of that time to lose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Had just over two weeks off this summer in sun/beach locations and it was staggering how my callouses disappeared with swimming/lack of playing etc. The first rehearsal back was a painful blister-wracked affair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 yep - started playing gigs regularly again after the summer break and have blisters on blisters again - on the hand cramp issues earlier - We regularly do 3 hour shows, about 1 1/4 hour per set; plenty of water really helps as does putting your finger tips on your bass and gently pushing down; move your whole wrist about before you play and **bob patent tip #1** just before you play go to the loo and hold your hands and arms under the handdryer to really warm them up - works wonders! bit of a bugger when there isn't a handdryer mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboom Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Left wrist had been hurting a bit lately. Played a song recorded at a gig to Jennifer at my lesson on Monday, she suggested pulling back the power to about 30%. Did so at rehearsal tonight and not only has the song been transformed into something that, according to the band, now flows instead of being frenetic, but it felt like I could have played it a couple of times over no problem whereas in the past that song alone was enough to make my hand ache. FWIW, it's almost a bossa nova (if an americana/country/blues song can be!), just its mainly 1 +3 rather than always +1 +3. Prior to that, I'd just assumed that playing softer would have sucked the energy out of the song and was tantamount to admitting I was a wuss, but it's had totally the opposite effect here ..... mind you this is pizz not slap :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethFlatlands Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I'm working my way through the Evolving Bassist by Rufus Reid and I never realised how puny my left hand was. 1st position chromatic exercieses, the first in the book where you're even using your left hand and I have to stop after about a minute. I hope it's not going to take as long to build up the strength as I fear. There's about 10+ pages of rythmic exercises so I'm going to work my way through them again and do the 1st position chromatic stuff every so often to try and build up strength. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboom Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Got that book too and it has been open on my music stand on the first page of open string exercises for months.... embarrassing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 Just a point in relation to 'building up strength'. In my experience, it is not so much building up strength as it is learning to use you hand and arm effeiciently in order to maximise it's muscle tone. I have found that, when I maintain a sustained practice schedule, my left hand maintains its positioning much more readily and I find that I have fewer problems with fatigue etc. Its not because my hand is stronger, it is because my whole body/arm posture is better. Can I also recommend the book An Alexander Technique Approach to Double Bass Technique by Ethan Kind as something worth reading and thinking about? Its not a magic cure but it helps you think about how the body works 'in toto' as opposed to just the ways your hands interact with the bass. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alexander-Technique-Approach-Double-ebook/dp/B004JKMSSE/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319025463&sr=1-1-fkmr1 Also, ref. baboom's comments about playing softer. Agree 100%. Use the pick up/amp technology to amplifiy your sound. I know there is a lot of talk about the bassists in the old big bands having no amps but the music they played was a lot more 'grounded' and modern playing techniques probably require a bit of help (and a lot of them were mic'd up as well). Get a good pick up and a decent pre amp (Fishman Plat Pro?) to avoid feedback and let your amp do the work. It will help you relax and play better and your right hand will not choke your sound as much i.e. more resonance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethFlatlands Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 [quote name='baboom' timestamp='1318894721' post='1407589'] Got that book too and it has been open on my music stand on the first page of open string exercises for months.... embarrassing. [/quote] I've found those really useful, my rythm playing has needed a little tightening up and those 10-12 pages really show you what you can do within 4/4 which I always thought was restrictive. How little I knew. Thanks for the tips Bilbo, I'll give that book a try (any excuse to fill up the Kindle.) I have an EUB so pickups aren't really a problem, I was just trying to get a good unamplified sound to begin with. The book says you should be able to hit notes without using the thumb which I'm having trouble with so I don't know if it's strength or technique. Either way, I'll keep at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatback Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the book tip Bilbo; I'll grab that. getting sore shoulder atm from practicing thumb position and I know it's posture. Rabbath says use 'weight' etc, but that's easier said than done when you don't use the angled pin. Edited October 20, 2011 by fatback Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Seems my stamina has progressed nicely. Had a jam with a couple of mates the day , and other than a bit of left hand discomfort about 10 mins in, I happily mucked around for 2hrs. It was just us playing around with a few song ideas, not a gig or anything, so wasn't overly strenuous stuff, but my hands were spurisingly happy by the end of it. Seems the regular 30mins/day practise over the summer has payed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 I DID IT!!!! I did a trio gig last night (sax/bass/drums) on double bass and got through the whole gig on the big fella, 3 x 45 minute sets. The Wal waited patiently for the blisters to appear but they didn't arrive! Feels good to break that barrier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted November 28, 2011 Author Share Posted November 28, 2011 Did another trio gig last night (piano, sax/bass) and, again, no need for the electric. What is more, the piano player, a guy called Chris Ingham, hadn't heard me for a year and commented that I had moved on considerably since the last time he heard me. He also said the bass sounded great and that, whilst he could still hear some fatigue creeping in at times, he could see the progress that was being made (Chris is a monster player whose opinion I respect totally - he is a lecturer at Anglia Ruskin University's Jazz course and has a way of feeding back that is empowering). Anyway, I ended the gig with minimal fatigue and no pain in my hands. A little soreness on the middle finger of my right hand this morning but nothing anywhere near a blister. The bass sounded great, particularly the E and A strings and we played some ballads where I could just wallow in the root notes and enjoy the sustain - simple pleasures!! I want to get some in-ear monitoring to help me with the intonation at higher speeds but, other than that, its all coming together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Did two double bass gigs this weekend, both 3 x 45 minutes sets. THe first, New YEars Eve, was a duo gig, again with Chris (see above). Nice gig in a restaurant in Thetford; nice sounding room, lovely people etc. I got through it and only picked the electric up for the last two tunes due to the impetus being lost in my double bass playing. I was a littel concerned as I got that tingle in the ends of my fingers that made me think 'uh-oh'. But, during the following day, that tingle seem to disappear and I got to the NY Day gig feeling ready to play. The second gig was my own trio of sax/bass/drums and it was a new drummer I hadn't played with before. Well, the shiocker was that I found it so easy to play the gig that my DB playing was more expressive and 'open' than it has ever been. I found that I could hear my ideas forming and could execute them without 'fighting' the instrument. I could get around in the bass more freely and, as a result, my lines and solos were more musical than they have been to date on the big bass. I did go to the Wal for the last two tunes but that was a musical choice not a 'physical' one. What was funny was that I ripped seven bells of s*** out of the electric bass for that 10 minutes or so because it was so 'easy' to play after three sets on the double. It felt good to be playing more musically, though, and to have my note choices come from the same place that they always have instead of from a 'pseudo-callisthenic' perspective!! Inshort, my mind was playing the bass not my hands. Another level reached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Nice report Bilbo... great to hear you're progressing, when I am in the busy season with my bread and butter gig we often to 5 sets a day (daytime) and then on to another 2x45 sets in the evening. During those periods, my strength becomes mammoth... there is no substitute for doing it! Edited January 3, 2012 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbassist Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 [quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1325596689' post='1484816'] Nice report Bilbo... great to hear you're progressing, when I am in the busy season with my bread and butter gig we often to 5 sets a day (daytime) and then on to another 2x45 sets in the evening. During those periods, my strength becomes mammoth... there is no substitute for doing it! [/quote] Wow. 7 sets. You must be knackered Jake :-) Great to see you doing so well Bilbo hope 2012 brings you another great year for double bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Not always 7 Geoff, and the daytime sets tend to be 25/30 mins but still amazing for the stamina... says a lot for practising in 20/30 min spells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 [quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1325617897' post='1485300'] Not always 7 Geoff, and the daytime sets tend to be 25/30 mins but still amazing for the stamina... says a lot for practising in 20/30 min spells. [/quote] Funny, I've actually started doing this recently: 20 mins on, then 5 off. I find it helps me to give my poor brain a rest - especially when trying to absorb a lot of new musical information! Also if I'm concentrating on something difficult I tend to tense up, so that little break lets me take stock with a cuppa and relax my body if I need to. Great to hear about how much you're enjoying playing Rob! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 4, 2012 Author Share Posted January 4, 2012 I am also gradually learning to play without clenching my teeth! (seriously, its a bad habit I am trying to break)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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