Compressors v Limiters

[DaveMuadDib]

Hey folks - I currently use a cheapo Behringer limiter-enhancer and I like it (it's easily as good as the Boss counterpart that I demoed, if not better!), but I'm thinking about going for something with a bit more punch. Are compressors better than limiters for talent-boosting purposes, and if so, any recommendations? Please no uberhighend suggestions, I'm not made of money

[fatback]

If you want punch, you need a compressor. You shouldn't really hear a limiter most of the time.

I keep singing the praises of the Trace elliot SMX dual compressor. It's a gem and can be as subtle or as effecty as you want. Also has an amazingly useful tone control, mixing the two channels. You should easily get one for £80-100 on the bay. Got mine for £80 a few months ago.

Watever compressor you get, get a dual band one though. You really need that control.

fatback

Edited November 17, 2009 by fatback

[danlea]

[quote name='fatback' post='656867' date='Nov 17 2009, 12:12 PM']If you want punch, you need a compressor. You shouldn't really hear a limiter most of the time.

I keep singing the praises of the Trace elliot SMX dual compressor. It's a gem and can be as subtle or as effecty as you want. Also has an amazingly useful tone control, mixing the two channels. You should easily get one for £80-100 on the bay. Got mine for £80 a few months ago.

Watever compressor you get, get a dual band one though. You really need that control.

fatback[/quote]

I really like the TE SMX compressor (the preamp one, rather than the pedal), but I'd say it's designed to be 'seamless' rather than 'punchy' (depending on your definition of 'punchy' - it can vary a lot!). I'd also refute the necessity of using a [i]dual band[/i] compressor, having once been convinced of that by the TE manual myself. If you want to use compression as an effect rather than for levelling and sustain, you might like to try something with more options, like the dbx 266XL - a model that frequents the for sale section at quite reasonable prices. Having never tried one, I can't actually recommend it as a unit, but I'm guessing it's the kind of thing you want to go for.

As an aside, do make sure you're not actually trying to achieve the 'punchy' sound that is a kick drum and bass guitar played together on record/over a PA when you're playing the bass by yourself - you'll be searching for the right compressor forever!

[Low End Bee]

There's only one way to find out........


[b]......FIGHT!.....[/b]

[voxpop]

[i]you'll be searching for the right compressor forever! [/i]


After 2 years of buying nearly every compressor on the market, both rack and pedal, Ive come to the follow conclusions.

For limiting use the Boss LM-3, its a great leveller that does not screw with the sound quality much. Its great if you want to slap hard or just gently limit the most loudest notes.

Next compressors, this is were it gets expensive. Almost every compressor that I tried messed with the bottom end. The only two that I found that did not screw up the low notes are the Manatone JAC :wub: and the Demeter Computator. :wub: Both these units are exceptional and worth every penny of your hard earned cash.

A great compressor will inject punch and clarity to your sound while a limiter will only effect the loudest notes.

All of the above is only my opinion and reflects my own subjective findings.

[fatback]

[quote name='voxpop' post='657027' date='Nov 17 2009, 02:31 PM'][i]you'll be searching for the right compressor forever! [/i]

Almost every compressor that I tried messed with the bottom end.[/quote]

I've definitel found that's where the dual compressor comes in; you set the bottom differently from the top. Works a treat.

What i've found is that the compressor improves the punch and coherence of my playing so much that i daren't practice with it for fear of getting sloppy.

yoyo2

[51m0n]

My 0.02 you're not going to like it, but I've yet to find a comp or limiter [b]pedal[/b] that can really do the job right.

They dont have all the relevant controls for fine tuning the device, they are therefore always a compromise (there was a tantalisiung piccie of a Joe Meek floor unit with all the right knobs, but I've not seen another).

EDIT:- maybe the JoeMeek floorQ is available now:-
[url="http://www.buyanalogman.com/JoeMeek_FloorQ_compressor_Pedal_p/joemeekfloorq.htm"]http://www.buyanalogman.com/JoeMeek_FloorQ...emeekfloorq.htm[/url]

If so, having used the TwinQ alot for recording, this is an absolute KILLER pedal!
/EDIT


They tend to be set also to sound more like the marketing blurb says they are going to so that they stand out in the shop. Thats not all of them, mind but there are some classic cases, like the Aphex pedal that is supposed to be really clean and not change your sound, until you check out what it is doing more closely and find out it is nt really doing much of anything really.

To this end IMO you need to get a good quality rack comp and learn how to use it to do what you want. You also have to realise that even then its a compromise unless you are setting it up for a very specific track, or you only need the one compression for your gig.

Another issue with pedals is they have nothing to really signify how what they are doing, you need metering with a compressor, ideally of input, output and compression, but always of compression, and not just that its happening, you need to know how much too!

And remember a compressor IS a limiter, just set up differently (a limiter being a compressor with near instant attack, theshold around 0 db, infinite ratio blah blah blah).

A limiter prevents signal going OVER the limit. Unless signal gets to that limit it does nothing. Set the limit lower and it never stops doing stuff. At which point it will be very noticeable. In the normal case where it is just taming extreme peaks you shouldnt notice it.

It is possible to set up a compressor with a low ratio and a very very low threshold that you also hardly notice, but is always compressing, and therefore also taming the peaks as well, and quite often the too control peaks by about the same amount (since lowering the threshold on the limiter makes it too obvious).

So either can be used to control peaks and to be unnoticeably transparent.

On the other hand heavy handed use of the threshold and or ratio (on a compressor) with either makes them very noticeable.

If you want punch use a short release time, if you want some attack to get through use a longer attack (note this may then require the use of a limiter to tame the initial transient after makeup gain).

Dual compressors are more of the same really. To do it properly I run signal through an active crossover and then onto each side of the Compounder. But having played around with this I find it isnt really necessary for almost all applications (certainly live), YMMV though.

What do you consider uber high end???

You can pick up a Compounder for £200 - £300 sh on ebay if you look hard enough. And that is about the bottom end of really useful compressors for bass to my mind (although the FMR RNC is very nice for other applications).

Compressors go up into the thousands and thousands of pounds worth, I wouldnt suggest you need spend that much, but anything under £150 is unlikely to perform the basic functions very well (believe me I have tried to find one that does).

Have a read here for more specific reviews:-

[url="http://www.ovnilab.com/index.shtml"]http://www.ovnilab.com/index.shtml[/url]

Edited November 17, 2009 by 51m0n

[clauster]

Some good advice above.

As a compressor junkie for the last twenty years, I've learnt one thing - every bassist wants something different from a compressor. A lot of folks love the Trace Elliot dual-band comp. I couldn't shift mine fast enough. Just didn't do what I wanted. Some worship their valve comps, while others say they're too noisey. Only you know what you want it to do to your sound. My last comp was a modded Boss CS3 - fantastic amounts of squish and a low noise floor.

Thing to remember about nearly all [b]PEDAL[/b] compressors is that the vast majority of them are based on one or the other of two designs. Range of controls, tone suck and noise levels will vary between these pedals, but they are still based on one of these designs. There are exceptions (among others the JoeMeek above, which I'm dying to try. But again it's based on the JM rack comps which have their own sound)

As Simon says, your best bet is to go for a properly spec'd rack unit. Play with it for a while and you'll know your settings for punch, squish and limiting and all points in between.

What am I using now? Nothing at the moment. I've decided I don't like compressors after all

[WalMan]

I have been searching for "the sound" for a while now and was considering a DHA VT Twin EQ, having borrowed Johnnylagers for a rehearsal.

However I tried out a T-Rex Squeezer, and MB Compressore at the w/e and am starting to think perhaps a compressor, particularly the former from the tryout, may be what I'm after. Not cheap though

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='voxpop' post='657027' date='Nov 17 2009, 02:31 PM']The only two that I found that did not screw up the low notes are the Manatone JAC and the Demeter Computator. Both these units are exceptional and worth every penny of your hard earned cash.[/quote]

[b]NO [/b]intention to challenge voxpop here, but as an example of just how subjective this all is, I followed up on earlier praise for the Demeter Compulator and tracked one down a couple of years ago.

I spent over an hour in Chandlers Guitar Experience near Kingston, completely uninterrupted by the staff or other customers, playing a variery of basses through a Compulator and into a decent amp.

Nothing. Nada. Not a sausage. Bugger all. The most expensive pedal ever to do virtually nothing.

Now that clearly can't be true because so many others have used this pedal and loved it. My hearing, maybe? Or my perception? Or perhaps it sounds different in a band mix rather than solo noodling in a shop? Could be it was just a duff example? Who knows.

[color="#FF0000"][size=3]TRY BEFORE YOU BUY![/size] [/color]

[markdavid]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='658874' date='Nov 19 2009, 08:34 AM'][b]NO [/b]intention to challenge voxpop here, but as an example of just how subjective this all is, I followed up on earlier praise for the Demeter Compulator and tracked one down a couple of years ago.

I spent over an hour in Chandlers Guitar Experience near Kingston, completely uninterrupted by the staff or other customers, playing a variery of basses through a Compulator and into a decent amp.

Nothing. Nada. Not a sausage. Bugger all. The most expensive pedal ever to do virtually nothing.

Now that clearly can't be true because so many others have used this pedal and loved it. My hearing, maybe? Or my perception? Or perhaps it sounds different in a band mix rather than solo noodling in a shop? Could be it was just a duff example? Who knows.

[color="#FF0000"][size=3]TRY BEFORE YOU BUY![/size] [/color][/quote]

One of my g*itar playin gfriends had a boss compressor pedal like that , I spent ages playing with the pedal to find out if it actually did anything , the most useless compressor ive ever used.

[51m0n]

[quote name='markdavid' post='658879' date='Nov 19 2009, 08:46 AM']One of my g*itar playin gfriends had a boss compressor pedal like that , I spent ages playing with the pedal to find out if it actually did anything , the most useless compressor ive ever used.[/quote]

Or the best if it turns out it is compressing the signal, but its so transparent you cant hear it, and what you are after is in fact a transparent levelling device.

Hence my issue with compressors of any kind that dont have any real metering on them, they are just about useless.

The Joe Meek pedal I mentioned above is basically one side of a TwinQ's compressor section in a pedal. Now I know from extensive use that its a super compressor if you want that squished fat punchy sound. It gives up that sound really easily even with very light compression (that you know is happening because it has good metering).

People are likely to love this pedal if they want that kind of thing. If you want ultra transparent then its not the best comp for the job. Here's the rub though, a lot of people on the web are saying it (the pedal version) is very transparent, and that it doesnt color the sound. But the TwinQ is not trnsparent when its actually compressing signa IME!! I would think that difference is as much because the settings they are using are doing next to nothing, but no one really knows since there is absolutely no metering on the device.

I'd still love to have the Joe Meek FloorQ for getting that ultra squished sound at the drop of a hat, but I would use the metering on my focusrite to help me understand how much compression I was using, and even more importantly, whether or not the make-up gain was applied correctly. Yes I know ears are really important for all things sound related, but the human ear/brain combination is one of the most powerful levelling amps ever, way beyond any device you can buy, and it is therefore useless for discerning volume differences, it constantly adjusts for them! Its not so bad in context (obviously) but on its own a compressor can be very very hard to perceive exactly what it is doing to the final output volume - hence the need for metering.

[voxpop]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='658874' date='Nov 19 2009, 08:34 AM'][b]NO [/b]intention to challenge voxpop here, but as an example of just how subjective this all is, I followed up on earlier praise for the Demeter Compulator and tracked one down a couple of years ago.

I spent over an hour in Chandlers Guitar Experience near Kingston, completely uninterrupted by the staff or other customers, playing a variery of basses through a Compulator and into a decent amp.

Nothing. Nada. Not a sausage. Bugger all. The most expensive pedal ever to do virtually nothing.

Now that clearly can't be true because so many others have used this pedal and loved it. My hearing, maybe? Or my perception? Or perhaps it sounds different in a band mix rather than solo noodling in a shop? Could be it was just a duff example? Who knows.

[color="#FF0000"][size=3]TRY BEFORE YOU BUY![/size] [/color][/quote]


Completely agree...................TRY BEFORE YOU BUY. Its all subjective at the end of the day. Whats right for me might be a complete waist of space for you.

[thinman]

I bought an Ashdown dual band bass compressor. Totally useless in my opinion! Just overdrives too easily and can't get a useful sound out of it.

I now use a TFPro P3 (same people as Joe Meek) which is a half rack unit that I'd bought for general recording rather than for bass. Not sure you can still get them. Either way it's only a single band but has all the right knobs and I think it sounds great. Would recommend one if you can find one.

[url="http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Jul03/articles/tfpro.asp"]http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Jul03/articles/tfpro.asp[/url]