budget bassist Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='656957' date='Nov 17 2009, 01:22 PM']I just had a look on Thomanns at the MM basses. Blimey, i didnt know they were that expensive.[/quote] That's just thomann, everything on there is expensive right now due to the euro being almost as strong as the pound. GAK have two band stingrays for about 1k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 [quote name='Duarte' post='656958' date='Nov 17 2009, 01:23 PM']The Phantom coil is to eliminate hum in the single coil setting.[/quote] yeah of course, that makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 [quote name='budget bassist' post='656963' date='Nov 17 2009, 01:30 PM']That's just thomann, everything on there is expensive right now due to the euro being almost as strong as the pound. GAK have two band stingrays for about 1k.[/quote] Cheers. Yeah, i was just having a look to see whats around. I might just go for a Sterling by MusicMan Ray4 (or 5). These seem to be around the sort of figure i might get for my Lakland Although i might be able to afford a Ray4 without selling it first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I can help you on this one Dave I would keep the DJ5 for now, save about 750/800, and get a second hand ray 4. If you want versatility, get the 3 band. If you want traditional, save for the new classic series ray, check em on the eb forum. The ray sound is HUGE. Put it with markbass and it's perfect. I will pm you more info later. I'm gassing for the sterling5 but it's 1400 ish! If you want a fatter warm sound, put a set of flats on. I heard one like this and I am convinced, the strings are awaiting to be fitted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Dave Dave Dave, what are you doing mate, I can't believe your at this crossroads again To be honest, I am not totally convinced you will like a Stingray. I think it will be too bright for you. They have a very distinct sound and to me, lack any balls to them compared to a lot of other basses. Thats not a bad thing but if you want a full but warm tone, then a Stingray is not for you. They do on the other hand, have a great unique tone and are a dream to play and is my dream bass but not tonally. If I was you, I would be really really cautious about going down this route. So much so that I suggest you come to my house to try mine and if you want, borrow it to see how you get on. You can also try my Fender MIA 75 Jazz to compare which I think is an amazing bass. Seriously have a think about this Dave. They are superb amazing basses but do have a distinct tone which I think might not be right for you. If the Lakland was too deep and dark for you, then the Stingray may be the other end and be to bright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 To my ears, Stingrays only lack "balls" when you have the pickup screwed in too far. I tend to treat the MM humbucker like the back pickup on a regular bass. Around 3mm from the poles to the D & A strings. Then the MM has massive output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 interesting question........ I always regarded the MM as an updated Precision in terms of the way it would cut through a gtr mix very well...and I think it owed its early popularity to that facility. I ended up putting a hot passive pickup in after a few years, as the bass was a delight to play but I wanted something different. Playing-wise it was like P-bass in string spacing, which I liked over the Jazz..but I would have preferred the Jazz sound at the time. Whether you like the clanky cutting tone of the MM is another thing. For that reason I would have a 3 band EQ but can't help thinking that the pre has been largely surpassed by loads of pre's these days but I am basing this opinion on a few years ago experiences. I do think the DJ5 is an excellent bass sound-wise for a passive machine, and I think the way they come straight out of the box rock-solid is the reason why these are the modern day workhorse, IMV.. Workhorse is probably not the kindest way to describe the DJ5, but put against some of teh boutique basses which require 'mothering' IME, it is a compliment. But if the sound doesn't do it for you, then move on and find something that does.. I turned down a DJ5 yesterday for a more exotic machine on the sound alone...but I'd guess it is going to take a lot of work to getting the exotic bass to 'play' as well in terms of action... but if you haven't got that sound you like/want/crave...you are starting on a back foot right away. You tried it and it isn't working, move it on.. what are you selling anyway...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 [quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='657006' date='Nov 17 2009, 02:17 PM']To my ears, Stingrays only lack "balls" when you have the pickup screwed in too far. I tend to treat the MM humbucker like the back pickup on a regular bass. Around 3mm from the poles to the D & A strings. Then the MM has massive output. [/quote] I think Alex Caber described it to me once. The mids on the MM are very prominent. To get an even balance and to get the bottom end to cut through, you need to run it through a bass cab that can reproduce the lows, something a lot of bass cabs can't do and thus the reason for the thinner clanky sound. It was something like that anyway and hope he pops along to give a better explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Ah, I see what you mean now, Linus! Yes, I can see how through some cabs the MM would sound a little thin. I always run the preamp on mine on full bass boost & a touch of added treble anyway, so I guess I really wouldn't notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 [quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='657030' date='Nov 17 2009, 02:33 PM']Ah, I see what you mean now, Linus! Yes, I can see how through some cabs the MM would sound a little thin. I always run the preamp on mine on full bass boost & a touch of added treble anyway, so I guess I really wouldn't notice. [/quote] Yeah, after Alex explaimed it to me, I have started to run mine with the mid dial full off or the bass boost up a little. It certainly fattens the sound out and takes away a lot of the clank. Tonight I will try what you do and see what results I get but I imagine its going to be an improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) I'm running my ATK with full bass boost, mids flat and a slight treble boost. Through an Ashdown 4x10 combo I used the other day with the amp EQ flat it sounded immense. (I know it's not a 'ray, but close enough to count!) Edited November 17, 2009 by Wil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) Yes, I always leave the mids in the flat (centre detent) position. On the amp or Pod XT I have the treble at 3'o'clock & the bass at about 1-2'o'clock. Makes for a lovely sound, but then again I am a fan of a sweet scooped sound Edited November 17, 2009 by OutToPlayJazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lateralus462 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Slight Bass boost, Mids cut back about 1/4 of the way and treble in the centre - not thin, not too much top end clank, solid lows and enough mids to cut through the mix. Sounds stunning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Good thread. Im certainly getting a better picture of the MM sound. Michael. Thanks for the offer and advice. I do understand the MM tone is quite a big departure from what ive wanted in the past. Not sure its the right one, hence this thread, but i do know a Jazz is definitely not what im after. Something about the two pups and a pick i dont like. I hear it in my HW1 Jazz and also when i got the DJ5. Im not sure how to describe the tone i have now but while its got this darkness about it, when im just playing on my own its a very toppy tone and im getting quite a bit for fret buzz if i did in. Not a bad thing though and i can raise the action if i need to but it doesn't really come across live. Someone mentioned that it sounded like a Stingray and this was what got me thinking. What Alex said about cabs might be a problem for me as im only using small cabs and although they do produce a nice clean low B they aren't exactly room filling lows. Gareth. I think your idea about keeping the Lakland for now is probably what im going to do. While i would prefer to have a bass im happy with than worry too much about how much im loosing on it if i sold it i do think it would be a shame to sell it so quickly. And certainly not before i have decided on a replacement. Saying that, im pretty impulsive so who knows. And save????, Nah, bung it on the card ;-) JTUK. Your right, the DJ5 (and JO5 i guess) are workhorses and mine feels like that. I of course look after my gear but i dont feel it would be the end of the world if i got a small scratch of dent in it. It might be down to the black finish but it does feel and look robust. And yes, feel is a big factor and my DJ5 feels like i just couldn't get better but if im not being inspired by its tone then its doing more harm than good. Im still not sure i want an active bass so this is also something i need to decide upon but i guess with a 3 band EQ im going to stand a bigger chance of getting something i like. I keep thinking back to when i first plugged my Duck Dunn in. I spent almost an hour with a big smile on my face. Couldn't get a bad tone out of it if i tried. Nothing has effected me as much since (or before) in such a way. Maybe i should just pick one of those up again and keep the DJ5 as a back up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) [quote name='dave_bass5' post='657071' date='Nov 17 2009, 03:12 PM']Good thread. Im certainly getting a better picture of the MM sound. Michael. Thanks for the offer and advice. I do understand the MM tone is quite a big departure from what ive wanted in the past. Not sure its the right one, hence this thread, but i do know a Jazz is definitely not what im after. Something about the two pups and a pick i dont like. I hear it in my HW1 Jazz and also when i got the DJ5. Im not sure how to describe the tone i have now but while its got this darkness about it, when im just playing on my own its a very toppy tone and im getting quite a bit for fret buzz if i did in. Not a bad thing though and i can raise the action if i need to but it doesn't really come across live. Someone mentioned that it sounded like a Stingray and this was what got me thinking. What Alex said about cabs might be a problem for me as im only using small cabs and although they do produce a nice clean low B they aren't exactly room filling lows. Gareth. I think your idea about keeping the Lakland for now is probably what im going to do. While i would prefer to have a bass im happy with than worry too much about how much im loosing on it if i sold it i do think it would be a shame to sell it so quickly. And certainly not before i have decided on a replacement. Saying that, im pretty impulsive so who knows. And save????, Nah, bung it on the card ;-) JTUK. Your right, the DJ5 (and JO5 i guess) are workhorses and mine feels like that. I of course look after my gear but i dont feel it would be the end of the world if i got a small scratch of dent in it. It might be down to the black finish but it does feel and look robust. And yes, feel is a big factor and my DJ5 feels like i just couldn't get better but if im not being inspired by its tone then its doing more harm than good. Im still not sure i want an active bass so this is also something i need to decide upon but i guess with a 3 band EQ im going to stand a bigger chance of getting something i like. I keep thinking back to when i first plugged my Duck Dunn in. I spent almost an hour with a big smile on my face. Couldn't get a bad tone out of it if i tried. Nothing has effected me as much since (or before) in such a way. Maybe i should just pick one of those up again and keep the DJ5 as a back up.[/quote] yes...dings are dings and you curse when any instrument gets them in the early new stages... but I meant more in a rock solid sense. My two basses don't travel that well... and I might have to play around with the action if the temps go way up or down... This is not a problem so much now as I allow for it... but I could get my MM out of being in a case for days and it hadn't moved... I've forgotten what that pleasure is like now and I almost bought a DJ5 yesterday on that basis..it was cracking Bass as well to boot and the set-up and QAC must be top banana, so congrats for getting that right. Maybe a lot of companies do that these days..it has been a long time since I was in the market... That is this place for you .........GAS..!! Re the MM... I used to run mine with the bass and treble for zero to half as they are boost only, IIRC, and only used to turn the stinging treble up if I had to contend with a very noisy full-on gtr. I don't have those gtr probs any more anyway... hence the 3 band idea, for a better less 'classic' MM sound. Playability-wise...they were a step up from the 70's P-Bass, for sure, but it seems everyone has upped their game now. I always lusted after a Red maple or Cherry burst with white plate MM5.... what a combo, IMV.. If the Duck Dunn was your thing, then that combines the sound you liked with the Lakland quality and that sounds like a very good mix. I don't know how many Laklands you have tried, but I imagine on (my) yesterday's experience they have taken a lot of variables out of their product, so maybe, all models sound pretty much the same.. Maybe someone who has tried a good few Laklands could comment on how the same model varies sound-wise.. Edited November 17, 2009 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 plus EBMM truss rods are a piece of cake to adjust ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 [quote name='JTUK' post='657132' date='Nov 17 2009, 03:57 PM']If the Duck Dunn was your thing, then that combines the sound you liked with the Lakland quality and that sounds like a very good mix. I don't know how many Laklands you have tried, but I imagine on (my) yesterday's experience they have taken a lot of variables out of their product, so maybe, all models sound pretty much the same.. Maybe someone who has tried a good few Laklands could comment on how the same model varies sound-wise..[/quote] Im on my 4th Lakalnd and i have played 9 altogether. All were set up and played like a dream. The thing with the Duck Dunn was the tone. It had a Fralin in it and it was just so punchy and deep. yes, deep but not dark. When the tone was backed off it got very round and full. Even my P5 didnt have that tone. Before anyone mentions it, i dont like the DD thats up for sale in the classifieds as 1, its a sunburst and 2, its not got a Jazz neck on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimefred Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I absolutely love my old MM Ray5. i have had a Fender Jazz and a few Spector basses including the Euro5XL model alongside the MM and they didnt come close to how i want my sound. High gain, aggressive when i need it, the mids and top end to cut above 2 loud ass guitar players, and a massive bottom end to fatten up the whole sound of my band. I personally do not like the newer models of any MM against the pre 1990's models. They just dont seem to sound as good. I too can see how the massive bottom end can get lost with some speaker cabs as its so big but i have had a David Eden 2x12xlt and now the Ampeg SVTHLF so i have never really needed to add any bottom end, in fact i tend to take it away! i would wait until you find a mint older model than spend a huge amount on a shiny new one. Or at least try the older ones. They are made of win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 [quote name='longtimefred' post='657148' date='Nov 17 2009, 04:13 PM']i would wait until you find a mint older model than spend a huge amount on a shiny new one. Or at least try the older ones. They are made of win [/quote] You do all seem to have the older ones. Uncles i tried a load of them i wouldn't know a good one from a bad one, unless there really is a big difference it tone. I think if i do go the MM route it might have to be a Sterling By MM, for cost mainly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 i just thought i'd say CURSE YOU! you've given me musicman GAS again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Dave, my MM is a 3EQ from 2005 and sounds like a Musicman. Your welcome to try anytime. Might be intersting to compare against your Laky as I bet its a very different tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 [quote name='Linus27' post='657174' date='Nov 17 2009, 04:36 PM']Dave, my MM is a 3EQ from 2005 and sounds like a Musicman. Your welcome to try anytime. Might be intersting to compare against your Laky as I bet its a very different tone.[/quote] Cheers Michael. Ill get in touch if i cant find anything closer to home. The other thing i need to decide is if im going to go back to 4 string. I guess all this will have to wait until after christmas anyway. Bloody wallet munchers will be expecting gifts bah humbug etc etc lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='657182' date='Nov 17 2009, 04:44 PM']The other thing i need to decide is if im going to go back to 4 string.[/quote] Dave, you know what they say, real men play four. You don't see a five wheeled car, a five legged table, a five legged cat or a five fingered hand You know what I'm saying buddy, all the fours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 [quote name='Linus27' post='657219' date='Nov 17 2009, 05:14 PM']Dave, you know what they say, real men play four. You don't see a five wheeled car, a five legged table, a five legged cat or a five fingered hand You know what I'm saying buddy, all the fours [/quote] Yeah but 5 is one closer to 6 and we all know how cool guitar players are ;-) seriously, i would have to re learn about a dozen songs if i gave up my 5th string. Do i really want to learn Funky music, Build me up Buttercup, Dancing Queen etc yet again? I didnt want to learn any of them the first time around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lateralus462 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='657224' date='Nov 17 2009, 05:17 PM']I didnt want to learn any of them the first time around.[/quote] In that case buy a 4 and forget you ever did!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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