Can some one explain the whole Musicman, Stingray, Sterling thing

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='lateralus462' post='657233' date='Nov 17 2009, 05:28 PM']In that case buy a 4 and forget you ever did!!![/quote]

Thats how it sounds when i play them.

[martthebass]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='657161' date='Nov 17 2009, 04:24 PM']You do all seem to have the older ones. Uncles i tried a load of them i wouldn't know a good one from a bad one, unless there really is a big difference it tone.
I think if i do go the MM route it might have to be a Sterling By MM, for cost mainly.[/quote]

I've only gone back as far as 1990 with Ray's - ownership. But apart from some nice birdseye maple necks on that age I can't say I've found much difference sound or construction wise to my current 2005. Maybe it's the general 'older is better' perception. Also while some pre EBMM's I've played have been sublime some have been complete dogs.

As per usual - try a few and make your own mind up.

Also good condition used EB Rays still seem to be going for £6-650.

[Duarte]

[quote name='Linus27' post='657174' date='Nov 17 2009, 04:36 PM']Dave, my MM is a 3EQ from 2005 and sounds like a Musicman.[/quote]

Of course it does. I don't understand when people say the older ones sound better?

The only things they have changed are the truss rod wheel (because it's made of win), taken the mutes off (because they sucked), put on a plastic battery compartment (because otherwise you'll need a screwdriver), and adjusted the nut in tiny measurements to improve intonation.

Otherwise, they're the same. Electronics are the same. Construction is the same.

They sound...the same.

[Linus27]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='657030' date='Nov 17 2009, 02:33 PM']Ah, I see what you mean now, Linus! Yes, I can see how through some cabs the MM would sound a little thin. I always run the preamp on mine on full bass boost & a touch of added treble anyway, so I guess I really wouldn't notice. [/quote]

Right, I gave that a go and I found that made it all a little to bassy and boomy and I lost some of the definition. This was at home so running at a louder volume live might work better.

[Duarte]

Just eleborating on my previous point...

The owners of the first few MusicMan Classic Collection StingRays claim that they nail the tone of the old basses.

They have the exact same electronics and materials as the other models.

It's definitely a case of 'Older is better' and 'reissue models are better, as they replicate the old'

[budget bassist]

i don't believe them for a second.

[Musicman20]

I was going to put a topic up about this....but here is what I wanted to say: (PS good topic Dave!)

I was just wondering this, are these instruments no longer classed as ‘in’, because Ive noticed a lot of them going for sale as silly low prices.

On other sites like (evil) ebay, their prices are much higher.

Maybe its just me, but I don’t see why someone would sell an instrument that retails at £1400+ for £800 or less. Ok, standard good condition 4 String Rays/Sterlings are perhaps at the right price point at £750, (even though mine are absolutely mint, so I would definitely want a little more) but some of the other more unusual and expensive models are going really cheap.

I remember when I was 13/14, and my bass tutor was talking about the instruments that would suit my requirements, that I should try out. Obviously the Precision and Jazz are my type of bass, but he also mentioned the Stingray, which back then was much rarer and more elusive! As soon as I saw one, and realised they could be used in Punk/Funk/Rock/anything, I was hooked. That scratchplate and that pickup….with the 3+1 headstock design….well….I am sucker for it.

The day I picked up my Natural Ray, my friends were stunned by how well it was built, the huge tone, and the brilliant thick finish on the body. I’d been waiting for that instrument for years, and I paid for it half cash and half in interest free finance…it still cost about £1K back then.

FFWD to now, and I still love them, but you don’t see the big rock bands using them so much, so it tends to reflect in what people buy. They don’t seem to attract as much cash, but I personally think once you see a new band with a Stingray, the sales will go up

Remember ‘Blur Song 2’?!

To me, no instrument cuts through like a Ray. A Ray with a Markbass amp is stunning….they pair up incredibly well.

I have some flats coming to try in my rosewood board Ray….which im really looking forward to.

Anyway, as much as I want a Jazz-type 5 string, im still leaning towards a Sterling 5 or Stingray 5.

[Linus27]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='657652' date='Nov 17 2009, 11:32 PM']I was going to put a topic up about this....but here is what I wanted to say: (PS good topic Dave!)

I was just wondering this, are these instruments no longer classed as ‘in’, because Ive noticed a lot of them going for sale as silly low prices.

On other sites like (evil) ebay, their prices are much higher.

Maybe its just me, but I don’t see why someone would sell an instrument that retails at £1400+ for £800 or less. Ok, standard good condition 4 String Rays/Sterlings are perhaps at the right price point at £750, (even though mine are absolutely mint, so I would definitely want a little more) but some of the other more unusual and expensive models are going really cheap.

I remember when I was 13/14, and my bass tutor was talking about the instruments that would suit my requirements, that I should try out. Obviously the Precision and Jazz are my type of bass, but he also mentioned the Stingray, which back then was much rarer and more elusive! As soon as I saw one, and realised they could be used in Punk/Funk/Rock/anything, I was hooked. That scratchplate and that pickup….with the 3+1 headstock design….well….I am sucker for it.

The day I picked up my Natural Ray, my friends were stunned by how well it was built, the huge tone, and the brilliant thick finish on the body. I’d been waiting for that instrument for years, and I paid for it half cash and half in interest free finance…it still cost about £1K back then.

FFWD to now, and I still love them, but you don’t see the big rock bands using them so much, so it tends to reflect in what people buy. They don’t seem to attract as much cash, but I personally think once you see a new band with a Stingray, the sales will go up

Remember ‘Blur Song 2’?!

To me, no instrument cuts through like a Ray. A Ray with a Markbass amp is stunning….they pair up incredibly well.

I have some flats coming to try in my rosewood board Ray….which im really looking forward to.

Anyway, as much as I want a Jazz-type 5 string, im still leaning towards a Sterling 5 or Stingray 5.[/quote]

Good post and some interesting points. The way you feel about the Stingray is exactly the same as me. It was always my dream bass and I longed to own one oneday. That day came and I adored it but I failed to get the sound I wanted from it. Partly because of the top end clanky Stingray sound, partly because I had the Harke alluminium speakers which were also very bright and also down to my own lack of experience/skill/lazyness in getting a good tone. I plugged my 77 Precision in and instant perfect sound which made the Stingray redundant. However, to this day I never gave up on the Stingray as to me, it is the perfect bass and I now own a natural model which is in super mint condition and cost me £670. Not a single mark on her and for that price it is a bargain but alas, was the going rate. Infact, I saw some going for a lot less. I am getting closer to the tone I want from it and I adore player her. I'll never sell her either.

I'm not really sure what the problem is with them these days. The price has seemed to rise again nearer to £800 which does seem to be more realistic for a mint condition second hand Stingray.

[OutToPlayJazz]

Lots of truth in these last few posts, guys Yes, the prices have dipped, but then again we have just been going through the worst recession since the 1920's depression! But I can see how instruments come in and out of fashion as well. Perhaps a lot of it is down to what people are posting about around here as well? The MusicMan range seems to be back on the up again around here, which can only be a good thing, methinks.

So are you going out to try a few Rays, Dave?

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='657688' date='Nov 18 2009, 12:05 AM']Lots of truth in these last few posts, guys Yes, the prices have dipped, but then again we have just been going through the worst recession since the 1920's depression! But I can see how instruments come in and out of fashion as well. Perhaps a lot of it is down to what people are posting about around here as well? The MusicMan range seems to be back on the up again around here, which can only be a good thing, methinks.

So are you going out to try a few Rays, Dave?[/quote]

Well lets hope the prices dont rise too quickly ;-). I cant do anything until after Christmas but i will definitely look a lot more in to it.

Im definitely going got try a ray or two out. I might not have the money to buy a new one unless i sell the DJ5 so it will either be second hand or a Sterling by MM Ray4.
Im going to do a lot more research to make sure the MM tone is what im looking for but i think it is.
Since i got rid of the P5 there has been this gap in our sound. The DJ5 sort of sits in the mix but is a bit more low key. I have always favored a more mellow tone but i can hear a gap that i think a MM could fill nicely.

The one i played a few months ago sounded close to a P but with a bit more aggression and although i have no idea what model it was it felt very comfortable.

[budget bassist]

i think one reason that rays may not be as popular or as rare/mystical creatures as they once seemed is the influx of new brands etc to have come since the 70's, cheaper instruments made overseas, particularly japanese ibbys etc, means you can get a quality instrument for much less, and it's no longer leo guitars (fender and musicman) dominating the market as there's a lot more out there. obviously though some brands come in and out of fashion, like warwick. they're starting to come back though.

[JTUK]

I had an old MM and loved it playing-wise. Got rid of the active stuff some time after and it was a real solid do-everything bass for years. Hated the new EBMM at that time. Can't really put a fnger on why, just that they didn't feel or play right.

I do have to groove a bass in to my playing and set-up style but you do need something to grab you in order to buy in the first place and I never felt that way about any of the EBMM I tried at that time.

I haven't played many 90's plus MM's so maybe EBMM got it together after a few years, but on my experience, I didn't like them,
and I wouldn't say the sound was part of that, that has been pretty consistant, IMO.

[obbm]

A Stingray 5 has been my main bass for over 11 years now, and with a Status neck for the past 5 years. If you liked the neck on the Duck Dunn then you will like the Status neck, however the sound might not suit. You are welcome to try mine but that could be logistically difficult. For sometime now the Gallery have had a used SR5 with a Status neck on their web site. Why not drop in and try it if it's still there.

On the subject of DDs. Mine is now a PJ with a matched pair of Lindy Fralins. Superb.

[Linus27]

Dave, I think borrow or come and try either mine or OBBM's Stingray. You really need to spend some time with it as tonally they are very different and you need to have it for a bit to get used to it and see what you can do with it. If after that you are not happy, I think the only option is to go down the Duck Dunn route as you were happy with this bass once.

[dave_bass5]

Dave, Michael, thanks for the offers to come and try some MM's out. I might take you both up on it at some point but at the moment its not very practical for me to get out to Surrey. I might see what the Gallery has in over the Christmas period though (i hadnt thought of them for some reason, cheer dave) and go and try some out if im still thinking about this.

It turns out there is a guy near me that has a Bongo that i can go and try. Im hoping he means a bass and not a drum ;-).
Not sure if that will help though as its the Stingray i like the look of.

Cheers all.

Edited November 18, 2009 by dave_bass5

[budget bassist]

at the risk of sparking some controversey, the bass cellar always has some EBMM stock in (mainly because they couldn't sell a bass to save their lives), if you go in looking pretty smart and maybe flash some cash, but without the intention of buying, they might let you have a go.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='budget bassist' post='658075' date='Nov 18 2009, 01:41 PM']at the risk of sparking some controversey, the bass cellar always has some EBMM stock in (mainly because they couldn't sell a bass to save their lives), if you go in looking pretty smart and maybe flash some cash, but without the intention of buying, they might let you have a go.[/quote]

Cheers for the heads up, ill put my Teflon coat on and pop in at some point. I work just down the road so its nice and local.

Im also thinking about trying out a Sandberg California PM4/5 as well. Looks like it could be the best of both worlds.

[OutToPlayJazz]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='658110' date='Nov 18 2009, 02:10 PM']Cheers for the heads up, ill put my Teflon coat on and pop in at some point. I work just down the road so its nice and local.

Im also thinking about trying out a Sandberg California PM4/5 as well. Looks like it could be the best of both worlds.[/quote]

Yes, make sure you have a play on a California PM "Supreme". They are truly excellent basses, Dave.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='658185' date='Nov 18 2009, 03:12 PM']Yes, make sure you have a play on a California PM "Supreme". They are truly excellent basses, Dave.[/quote]

Yes. I remember playing one in the Bass Centre when i first went out looking for a good 5 string. It came down to the PM5 or Lakland 55-01. Even though the PM5 was about £300 more i almost got it but there were gaps under some of the higher frets and that sort of put me off :-(

If i do go for one it will be a Blackburst with block inlays.

[Veils]

My advice having owned both basses is this.

Someone has mentioned earlier about trying a different preamp in your DJ. I would strongly recommend this. I really didn't like the sound of the DJ when I owned it, in fact I think it's one of the poorest sounding basses I've owned.

Stingray's can be really variable. I bought a used one and sold it on this forum and regretted it pretty soon after. They are wonderful basses and a nice playing Ray is one of the nicest basses you can own. Very distinct sound.

All in all, I'd recommend trying a different preamp in a DJ if possible and if it still isn't to your liking, then you should be able to easily flog it for the price of a Ray. However, in my experience, Ray's have really really naff B strings and they just dont look as nice as the 4's. As for the Sterling, pretty much the same beast with a different profile.

[dave_bass5]

As much as i hate to admit it i agree with you, its the worst sounding bass ive ever owned. Partly its because its a Jazz and while i dont like Jazzes this one sounds worse than any other ive played. Its much better now but still that darkness seem to be in the tone.
I have thought about maybe a Audre but cant decide if its worth spending any more money on it. Im not sure ill get back what im paying out and i think i should just stop spending money on it.
To be honest its a bass i can live with and its so easy to play that i really dont want to get rid of it. And ive had more good compliments since ive had it than i have had with any other bass so i know its a good bass, just not for me.

Im thinking i might go for a 4 string next, and maybe that will give me the excuse to keep the DJ5. I will still try and test a few MM's out but i really do like the idea of the Sandberg now. Not quite a MM but definitely a P and im liking having two different pups to play with now. I feel i would use the MM pup soloed a lot more than i would the jazz pup on the DJ5.

Edited November 19, 2009 by dave_bass5

[Linus27]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='659731' date='Nov 19 2009, 10:40 PM']As much as i hate to admit it i agree with you, its the worst sounding bass ive ever owned. Partly its because its a Jazz and while i dont like Jazzes this one sounds worse than any other ive played. Its much better now but still that darkness seem to be in the tone.
I have thought about maybe a Audre but cant decide if its worth spending any more money on it. Im not sure ill get back what im paying out and i think i should just stop spending money on it.
To be honest its a bass i can live with and its so easy to play that i really dont want to get rid of it. And ive had more good compliments since ive had it than i have had with any other bass so i know its a good bass, just not for me.

Im thinking i might go for a 4 string next, and maybe that will give me the excuse to keep the DJ5. I will still try and test a few MM's out but i really do like the idea of the Sandberg now. Not quite a MM but definitely a P and im liking having two different pups to play with now. I feel i would use the MM pup soloed a lot more than i would the jazz pup on the DJ5.[/quote]

Dave, if you keep your DJ5 or not, I think, if your going to head down the route of a 4 string, then I would get something more mainstream and traditional that a Sandberg. I would play if safe in case you do decide to get rid of the DJ5. Personally, if I was you, I would get either a Duck Dunn as you know you loved this and it ticks all the boxes, or a Fender Precision or a Stingray. All safe, all do exactly what they say on the tin and all easy to shift if you ever feel the need. If you got something a little more less mainstream like the Sandberg and ended up not liking the sound or feel of it, coupled with the DJ5 which does not sound to your liking, then you would be in a difficult position. Seriously, I would play it safe with a 4 string and get Duck Dunn, Fender Precison or a Stingray.

[dave_bass5]

That does make sense but if i was to go for a Duck Dunn i would really want one with a Fralin in it. That might not be easy to come by for the right price at the right time.
Im not sure if i do want just a P any more. Certainly i wont by a Fender P as i dont like the necks. I quite like the idea being able to blend two different tones together.
A change of tone appeals to me, thats why i started this thread. The MM tone is something ive never really paid any attention to but do find appealing.
I also considered a Ric but not sure i would get on with the neck and they are bloody expensive as well.

Ive played a PM5 before and really liked it. It had a nice full tone and as ive said, the only reason i didnt get it was it had faults with the frets. Im definitely going to try one again but also some MM's of some sort.

Its all just ideas and it wont be before the new year, who knows what ill be thinking by then. Might just go and get a HW-One P and put my Jazz neck on it.

[OutToPlayJazz]

I think Dave, that once you find a really good MusicMan that blows your socks off, worries about tone will be a thing of the past. As a strict comparison, the Sandberg PM Supreme I mentioned was a very hifi sounding bass with a lot of punch, but my Stingray is in a different league altogether. Masses of tone even at low volumes right across the range & sustain like you wouldn't believe. I don't know if mine is a one off, or is perhaps richer sounding due to it's age (June 2000), but as you can tell, I really am impressed.

[martthebass]

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='659760' date='Nov 19 2009, 11:23 PM']I think Dave, that once you find a really good MusicMan that blows your socks off, worries about tone will be a thing of the past. As a strict comparison, the Sandberg PM Supreme I mentioned was a very hifi sounding bass with a lot of punch, but my Stingray is in a different league altogether. Masses of tone even at low volumes right across the range & sustain like you wouldn't believe. I don't know if mine is a one off, or is perhaps richer sounding due to it's age (June 2000), but as you can tell, I really am impressed. [/quote]

Is this a honeymoon period Rich - only joking.

How much of your 'tone' do you attribute to the Piezo? I get a nice beefy tone from my MM but it's not as controlable as the 2 band Status, having said that the sustain and 'top end (which can be had without some of the 'clatter' you sometimes get on a graphite board) is top notch.