I can play it, but don't understand it!

[gary mac]

Since sitting down to work out Durans Save a Prayer last week this has been bothering me a bit. I guess in the great scheme of things it's not important, you know if the bass line works, then why worry?

So: the first chord is D minor, then to F (major, I think).

So to get from the D min to the F the notes on the bass are, I think D, A, G, Fsharp and on to the F.



Now normally if I was jamming with the guitards and there was a Dmin to F progression, I wouldn't consider that F sharp note and instead would choose notes common to both chords or a root/ 5th thing.

So Why does it work?
I know it crops up on a whole load of progressions, but I've quoted this one, as I'm working on it at the moment.

I feel a bit stupid asking this question on here, as I've been playing for years and should probably know, but there you go I've gone and done it now.

[ahpook]

i can't offer much, but i frequently get those "oh [i]that's[/i] how it goes.....but WHY ?" moments, so you're not alone !

[Wil]

I dont know any real theory, but it sounds like you're describing passing notes that eventually resolve to a note in the key of the song. Great musical effect, gives it some tension.

[gary mac]

Thanks chaps.


Still hope someone will come along and explain though, Where's Out to Play Jazz or Bilbo when you need them?

[neilb]

[quote name='Wil' post='659246' date='Nov 19 2009, 02:16 PM']I dont know any real theory, but it sounds like you're describing passing notes that eventually resolve to a note in the key of the song. Great musical effect, gives it some tension.[/quote]


Yes, its just a passing note en route to resolve to another note/chord in the key. As said, it offers tension and expectation to the song.


Another example is in the Oasis classic Dont Look Back In Anger, supporting the lyric of;

[i](G)Stand up beside the fireplace
(Ab)Take that look from off your face
(A)You ain't ever (G)gonna burn my (F)heart out (G) [/i]


Wouldn't expect an Ab in a song in C maj. Well I wouldn't anyway just being a simple rock player. Im sure theres many jazz scales with a flattened 6th.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='gary mac' post='659238' date='Nov 19 2009, 02:11 PM']Since sitting down to work out Durans Save a Prayer last week this has been bothering me a bit. I guess in the great scheme of things it's not important, you know if the bass line works, then why worry?

So: the first chord is D minor, then to F (major, I think).

So to get from the D min to the F the notes on the bass are, I think D, A, G, Fsharp and on to the F.



Now normally if I was jamming with the guitards and there was a Dmin to F progression, I wouldn't consider that F sharp note and instead would choose notes common to both chords or a root/ 5th thing.

So Why does it work?
I know it crops up on a whole load of progressions, but I've quoted this one, as I'm working on it at the moment.

I feel a bit stupid asking this question on here, as I've been playing for years and should probably know, but there you go I've gone and done it now. [/quote]
Approaching the root of a chord with a note above (semi tone) implies a very common chord substitution. It's called a tri tone substitution and the chord that it implies is the dominant (the chord found on the 5th degree of a major scale) since the the movement dominant to tonic (which is 5th to root but in chord speak) is the strongest one in music it works very well. You could try it on many things. If you want it to sound a bit jazzy then use the fifth then the semi tone above root then the root. It will work especially well if it is implied in the harmony (gtr keys)

As for feeling stupid go check my chinese proverb thread in off topic
Jake

Edited November 20, 2009 by jakesbass

[gary mac]

Thanks Neil and Jake.


Jake, I will have to read that a few times for it to sink in, but exactly the sort of help needed.

Yes had a look at the proverb thread


All the best, Gary