Tuition books: the discipline approach

[Kongo]

I have, over the years, bought LOADS of tuition books...anything that took my fancy starting with my 6-string bass book, when I bought one, my 2nd bass that was but mostly slap, 2 handed tapping and chordal approaches thereafter...now I have read through them and took some bits here and there...but how do you go about learning them cover to cover?

I've got an AMAZING book called: "Ultimate slap bass : By Stuart Clayton"
It's AWESOME! It starts off with the very basics and by the end (I listened to the CD too) it really DOES get you to (apologies for sounding boring, I don't use his name much) Wooten style speed and fluidity of using double thumping and triple pops like Stu Hamm...So, if one was to use this book from cover to cover in time you could, at least playing what is in the book, get pretty hot at slapping and, taking what you have learned, explore and build your own take on it...which is something that interests me.

Thing is...I can't do it! I sit and I play an example...then I hear something and WHOOSH! Off I go, for hours practsing a line I jus heard in my head...and yep, got no further in the book....Day 2...same thing happens again...How do you approach these books with an order of discipline?
In my 3 years of college bass tutors would set out a set route and take it...how can I do this and not stray?

To note, I also have intermediate slap technique so...how far in this book should I start? I can skip the basics but where is best to drop in where I won't get bored?

Then I shall apply this to all books and learn new things every day...I'm not so keen on learning songs any more cause I can't find any, other than Primus etc that really grip me...so books are a nice alternative.

And please, feel free to recommend me some.
Jus no...Jazz theory please! I don't enjoy that AT ALL! lol!

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='Kongo' post='665811' date='Nov 26 2009, 12:56 AM']Jus no...Jazz theory please! I don't enjoy that AT ALL! lol![/quote]
This is going to sound like "lecturing" (which it is !) but:

I'm assuming from your post that you are either currently at college doing music or you once were. Apologies if I have this wrong, but:

If you are thinking of a long term career as a bass player, you would be wise to get to know all the genres of music that use bass, including jazz. Jazz in any case is a very broad church, and there will be a branch that you will feel more at home with. Just dig a bit deeper and you will find it. From there, you can then explore other areas of this genre and maybe start to appreciate stuff which at present you find difficult to comprehend.

A career bass player needs to be open to all styles of music and have at the very least a smattering of knowledge and technique in each.
You simply can't afford to ignore areas of music that may not be immediately to your taste.

We all have areas we specialize in, but if one day you are asked to do a gig or session in unfamiliar musical territory, it helps if you have at least some basic knowledge of that genre.

And in any case, there is no such thing as "jazz theory" - only "music theory". Its all about notes and rhythms - how they interact, what sounds harmonious, what sounds dissonant, how to create tension. release, emotions, excitement, relaxation, groove, pulse, etc etc

All types of music are subject to the same physics of sound.

I thank my lucky stars every day for the long term career I have had as a bass player (40 years so far). But I have NEVER turned my nose up at any style of music. From heavy metal to irish country music, Elgar to Ligeti, freeform jazz to Dixieland - I've played it all, and although I have areas I prefer, I feel enriched by the diversity of my experience.

Lecture over !!

To answer your question:
The best way to approach any tutor book is to start at page 1 and work your way methodically through to the end. Obvious really !!


The Major

[Bilbo]

It is as simple as that, although I can lecture you some more

The problem you have is attitudinal. Your self talk is distracting you all of the time and denying you the right to make conscious decisions about what you want in preference to short term, low input, high return activity (posh talk for 'noodling'). You need to control your self talk and keep focussed on what it is you are trying to do. To be fair, not all books work on a 'start at page one and move on' principle and may require you to jump about but, either way, the focus shoudl be on the required learninig not the bass in your hands. So, if you want to learn the material in the books you have, tell youself regualry to stay focussed and don't let that frivolous side of yourself win every argument.

There is a temptation in learning to race forward to the cutting edge of your technique at all times rather than to concentrate on the fundamentals. Playing clever licks faster and faster is a fools errand (I know, I've been there). You need to learn to play the bass as God, Bach and Leo Fender intended at first then start moving into more sophisticated concepts when you are ready. Victor Wooten licks etc are pretty much useless in most musical settings - this is the glamourous side of bass playing in the original sense of the word glamour: a magical-occult spell cast on somebody to make them believe that something or somebody was attractive`. Learn basic theory, good time and genre specifics and you will work forever.

So, choose a book, go to page one and stick with it until you see the inside of the back cover.

And, as MM says, there is no such thing as 'jazz theory'; its all just theory. If you don't deal with it, you will never reach your fullest potential and remain a lightweight forever.

[XB26354]

I know I'm showing my age here (although I'm only 36 ) Kongo, but you mention 6-string bass, slap and two-handed tapping quite a bit in your post. As Bilbo mentioned, these things are really the icing on the cake as far as bass playing is concerned. The cake mix itself is foundational bass lines, lines that fit the music and flatter the vocals (or instrumental melody), on a 4-string bass. I've been playing 6-strings exclusively for years and I still believe that. Slap is cool but most of my favourite bass lines that do use slap require at best easy to intermediate technique. Wooten is a wonderful virtuoso but very little of his fripperies work in anything but the most self-indulgent instrumental music. He is also very, very good at them, and not many bassists can even approach his level of groove (when he grooves). Imitating him may be personally very agreeable but the two drunks and the dog you'll be playing to won't give a monkeys

As far as theory goes - as long as you know what you're doing and can communicate that to others then find your own path. Books are like one hand clapping - unless you have someone there to go through it with you'll have lots of unanswered questions. Even the best books I've come across give you like 10% of what you need to know - the other 90% is up to you to work out. There are fabulous musicians out there that don't read music and don't know theory, but that is a different argument imho - if you genuinely want to improve your playing you can either play with lots of great musicians and learn from them (ie a college course, or just by gigging with musos that are better than you), buy books and churn through them, or get a private teacher. As I've learned through hundreds of wasted hours practicing, learning new things is not noodling!

[Kongo]

I may have given some misgivings in the original post, of which I will clarify now

1) Not in college, passed all 3 years! Got distinctions in Music Theory (Grade A in GCSE), although a lot of it has taken a back seat it is still there, jus used more naturally rather than over thought.
I am currently in my band, my love and my dream...and it's coming on so well!
It may not be in bass guitars hottest genre but that's not to say it can't be...with an open mind one can do wonders!

2) I've got Wooten albums and even his book but I too feel his stuff is unusable...I just feel the double thump technique needs moving on...Everyone that uses it sounds like a Wooten clone...yet all that use fingers do not sound like a Jaco clone...odd eh?
That's cause no ones bothered to put it into other uses...I have the know how in my brain...but my hands won't go to that extent just yet...Practice will!

3) I have a 4-string but my hands are far more comfortable on the broad neck of a 6-string...I may be a young adult but dodgy joints exist in my family and my hands are temperamental. They cramp up on a 4-string neck, which is why my 2nd bass was a 6-string...my hands feel good!
HOWEVER I DO learn books for 4-string and I DO play as is so if I absolutely HAD to, I COULD play that piece on a 4-string.

4) I have a few books on J.S.Bach pieces and I love em! Just (not so) simple finger played melody lines...Sonata #1 in G Minor (Presto) is my favourite and I also love and take an interest of classical music (forgive me, Bach is Baroque).

Please don't see me as a hot shot only technique bassist...I learn many techniques so my hands can keep up with my brain...a problem I have in many things which is why I cant write properly...I can't get the words down quick enough...no where nearly as quick as I type this!
I LOVE music and my bass and everything in with it...6-string bass is great because you can make music with it better because chord voices are clearer...Wootens techs are just showey and lead nowhere but with the right mind can be reworked into something new, something guitar does faster than bass, it evolves.

Music is in my head and also, these books but the technique used to do them...does mean you play 1 million notes it just means you hit that note or harmonic and you hit it well...
But these books contain examples of chord uses and accents you could use and also teach musical approaches.

Hope that clears things up a bit.


And so...I leave you with this...an example of technique used in music, can't play this with theory alone and this is what I am trying to say:



[quote name='XB26354' post='666609' date='Nov 26 2009, 07:18 PM']There are fabulous musicians out there that don't read music and don't know theory, but that is a different argument imho[/quote]

You have no idea the amount of inspirations that are like that...I shall not say names lest it become misleading but there are LOADS!

Edited November 27, 2009 by Kongo

[Major-Minor]

Kongo - I admire your obvious enthusiasm for music and love of bass playing. I sincerely hope you can make a long term career in this wonderful music world.
BUT - with respect, Grade A in GCSE music is just at the very start of the long process of music study. And believe me, it never ends. That's why I still love being a professional bass player after 40 years. I still learn (or re-learn) something everyday. Its not just about your fingers, your instrument, and the guys you happen to be playing with that day. Music is universal. Its everywhere, in many different guises, different forms. Music is human. Its about people, their emotions, their pleasures, their sadness, their joy.

Michael Manring could not have written the solo piece you posted if he had little or no theoretical understanding. He could not create music like this if he had no feel for time, space, communication, emotion. He displays lots of technique, but that's only half the story.

The bass is a social instrument, by which I mean that we mostly need to play with other musicians for it to make sense. Solo players like Michael Manring are the exception to the rule. Very few bass guitar players can make a living as a solo player. This also applies to the double bass, and I get very annoyed with the Classical Music Colleges who encourage student bass players to do solo recitals rather than studying orchestral repertoire.
We get young DB players auditioning for the BBC orch i play with, and their solo concertos are always impressive - then you give them a bit of a Beethoven symphony to play and its AWFUL !

You've only got to look at the musical market place in its widest view, and you can see, firstly, how difficult it is to break into the profession and secondly, the huge variety of skills needed to sustain a long term musical career.

I always want to encourage young bass players to excel in their chosen career, to have as much fun and enjoyment as I've been lucky enough to have over many years BUT you've got to be realistic. Without all the necessary skills - technique/theory/creativity/aural skills/reading/improvising/composition/arranging etc - you will flounder and end up disenchanted with the whole business.

Next time a world class orchestra or a top jazz group or folk group comes to your town, go see them, even if its right out of your comfort zone, take it all in, put aside your prejudices, try to work out what's going, be critical, listen intently, immerse yourself . There is so much good stuff out there, and it doesn't cost a fortune to go to these concerts. You may be surprised by how it makes you feel.

The Major

[Dundee]

If your having problem with a certain technique then for me the best thing to do is to identify the part of the technique that you are having problems with.
Break the line down, play it slowly and look at what your hands are doing.

A few things that can help...

1. Say your having problem with using the double thumb technique. Try playing other exercises you know (say a scale or string skipping exercise or even a simple bass line) with the double thumb technique.

2. Use a metronome! Take the speed right down (say 80bpm) and focus on playing double thumb in time and with the desired tone. then slowly increase the speed, or even reduce the speed and play quavers, triplets or semiquavers over the beat.

Also I wouldn't recommend practising one thing for the whole day. A long period of what seems like little success can be deeply frustrating. take breaks, practice other things that you find easier.

Finally remember that the book Staurt Clayton has written will use the techniques that HE finds best. Don't be a slave to what the book says is best, 90% of the time it is probably right, but for you as a different player with different physical characteristics you may find that adjusting what is suggested may produce better results.

[Kongo]

All good answeres.
I don't close my mind to anything either, I have LOADS of music on my iPod...so much I bought the 160GB version (Now discontinued) so I could fit them in and still have room for vids and pics etc.

I got all sorts from 80's rock, the heaviest of Metal...but I also got Miles Davis in there too! Bitches Brew to be precise but I can't listen to it for long...
A lot of Jazz seems hodge podge of notes with odd structures that jus make listening boring to me. I take everything on board, I'm a bassist with an extremely open mind, I just wish that, although I pick things up real quickly, there are some barriers that stop me playing whats in my head.

I'm happy with what I've got, I was just looking for help to sit down and use these books.
They contain knowledge that I must have...but I have difficulty going through them without getting side tracked.

[Kongo]

All good answeres.
I don't close my mind to anything either, I have LOADS of music on my iPod...so much I bought the 160GB version (Now discontinued) so I could fit them in and still have room for vids and pics etc.

I got all sorts from 80's rock, the heaviest of Metal...but I also got Miles Davis in there too! Bitches Brew to be precise but I can't listen to it for long...
A lot of Jazz seems hodge podge of notes with odd structures that jus make listening boring to me. I take everything on board, I'm a bassist with an extremely open mind, I just wish that, although I pick things up real quickly, there are some barriers that stop me playing whats in my head.

I'm happy with what I've got, I was just looking for help to sit down and use these books.
They contain knowledge that I must have...but I have difficulty going through them without getting side tracked.

[endorka]

[quote name='Kongo' post='667855' date='Nov 27 2009, 11:30 PM']I'm happy with what I've got, I was just looking for help to sit down and use these books.
They contain knowledge that I must have...but I have difficulty going through them without getting side tracked.[/quote]

As others have pointed out, to do this you have to find a way of staying focussed on the goals you are trying to achieve. It can sometimes be difficult to develop this, but it does feed on itself; if you manage to do it for a short time, the benefits will likely be obvious to you, and something in your mind may "click" and it will become easier to keep up with your practicing, because you know the rewards are greater than noodling. You must set goals and stick to them, even if you don't feel like doing it; professional music in this regard can be just like any job, sometimes you just don't want to do something for whatever reason, but you have to, end of story.

Another way to look on it is from a monetary perspective; the more you practice, the better the gigs you get, the more money you earn. Think of the ££££££ signs when your motivation is waning.

If it truly is impossible to develop the discipline yourself, then I recommend getting a tutor you really respect, and have them set goals for you, in other words to impose the disciplined approach. The humiliation from not being able to play a piece you were expected to learn in front of someone you respect can also be a powerful incentive.

Jennifer

[Kongo]

[quote name='endorka' post='667955' date='Nov 28 2009, 02:55 AM']As others have pointed out, to do this you have to find a way of staying focussed on the goals you are trying to achieve. It can sometimes be difficult to develop this, but it does feed on itself; if you manage to do it for a short time, the benefits will likely be obvious to you, and something in your mind may "click" and it will become easier to keep up with your practicing, because you know the rewards are greater than noodling. You must set goals and stick to them, even if you don't feel like doing it; professional music in this regard can be just like any job, sometimes you just don't want to do something for whatever reason, but you have to, end of story.

Another way to look on it is from a monetary perspective; the more you practice, the better the gigs you get, the more money you earn. Think of the ££££££ signs when your motivation is waning.

If it truly is impossible to develop the discipline yourself, then I recommend getting a tutor you really respect, and have them set goals for you, in other words to impose the disciplined approach. The humiliation from not being able to play a piece you were expected to learn in front of someone you respect can also be a powerful incentive.

Jennifer[/quote]

I'll set myself on the books soon!
I am sick of just practising scales to warm up then just going onto something in my head which is in itself noodling.
I'll have a go...I REALLY wanna expand my slap technique as it's good but not good enough so I'll start on that book.
I guess I'll drop in where I find challenging and not too easy and take it to the end from there, and regularly play along to the examples until I get them comfortable, not jus swing my way though them.