Any problem with this?

[NickSpector]

Ok, so my rig is pretty weird. I've got two different channels, one with Sansamp BDDI into Octaver into 30 band graphic EQ into stereo PA head. The other side is my Barber LTD Overdrive into Distortion into phaser into 30 band graphic EQ into other amp of stereo PA head. Basically, this set up is ok, but sounds a bit weak for some reason. I like the idea of keeping the octaver seperate from the other effects, as this creates a wall of sound effect when the octaver and distortion are running together in stereo. However. for other songs, when just the Sansamp and Barber are running, the signal sounds somewhat thin, like it's lacking 'balls' (my EQ on both channels is set up with a huge mid bump from 500hz to around 4K, so this shouldn't be the case). If I ran both sides into a channel, but changed the amp into mono mode, rather than stereo, so all the signal were going into both amps in the head, would that cause problems? i've done it before, and because the input gain is effectively doubled, it sounds a lot beefier and more powerful. Ideas?

Edited November 26, 2009 by NickSpector

[cheddatom]

It sounds like you just need to drive the head harder. Can you increase the output from your EQ?

[Mr. Foxen]

Might have phasing issues cancelling bits of your sound going on too. What cabs are you using?

[umph]

[quote name='NickSpector' post='666265' date='Nov 26 2009, 02:31 PM']Ok, so my rig is pretty weird. I've got two different channels, one with Sansamp BDDI into Octaver into 30 band graphic EQ into stereo PA head. The other side is my Barber LTD Overdrive into Distortion into phaser into 30 band graphic EQ into other amp of stereo PA head. Basically, this set up is ok, but sounds a bit weak for some reason. I like the idea of keeping the octaver seperate from the other effects, as this creates a wall of sound effect when the octaver and distortion are running together in stereo. However. for other songs, when just the Sansamp and Barber are running, the signal sounds somewhat thin, like it's lacking 'balls' (my EQ on both channels is set up with a huge mid bump from 500hz to around 4K, so this shouldn't be the case). If I ran both sides into a channel, but changed the amp into mono mode, rather than stereo, so all the signal were going into both amps in the head, would that cause problems? i've done it before, and because the input gain is effectively doubled, it sounds a lot beefier and more powerful. Ideas?[/quote]
boost your low mids as apposed to high mids

[NickSpector]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='666300' date='Nov 26 2009, 03:02 PM']Might have phasing issues cancelling bits of your sound going on too. What cabs are you using?[/quote]

I was worried someone would mention phasing. It's something I've never fully understood. Can you explain further?

I'm using two ABM 4x8 cabs. I was intending to sling two ABM MINI 1x15s under them, to handle the low end, and use the 4x8s to handle mids and top end.

As for boosting the low mids, I do on one channel (the clean channel), but I find if I boost them too much I can get a woofy, unclear sound.

Edited November 26, 2009 by NickSpector

[NickH]

Phasing is REALLY hard to explain in words but dead easy to explain with a picture.
Musical notes are a sine wave signal. If you put two on top of each other, as when you use both pickups on a 2-pup bass, the waves sit in line with each other and reinforce the sound. The sine wave of one starts on the up-ramp part of it's cycle, so does the other, both go up, win.

Problems arise when you introduce any kind of delay, such as a signal goes through when heavily FX'd. Say your played note has a frequency of 100 hz. Each full wave takes 1/100 of a second (10 milliseconds or ms) to go from the start point, do an "up bump" of a sine wave, a "down bump", and back to where it started ready for the next wave. Each "bump" therefore takes 5 ms. The unprocessed signal goes from your bass into your amp. Then the signal goes to your FX chain, and picks up 5 ms delay from the processing. This means that your pure bass signal starts an up-bump the same time the processed signal starts a down-bump.
If the signals were identical, you'd get zero sound at this point. Luckily for you, FX'ing the signal means they're not identical anymore but a significant amount of the signal strength is lost.

Of course this only affects the 100hz notes if your FX chain has that much delay. The 300 hz notes will be affected less, and as frequencies get higher and higher it's harder to "line up" the phased and non-phased signals to cancel everything out. That's small consellation to us as bassists since it's the low frequencies we're generally interested in.

The above phenomenon isn't solely linked to frequency-specific delay phase. If one of the speakers in a two-speaker cab is wired the wrong way round a similar effect happens. The same electrical signal from the power amp moves one speaker forward and the other backward. The result? Crap tinny sound. Same if the neck and bridge pickups in a bass are wired out of phase - or, even worse, the two coils in a single humbucking pickup.

Thus endeth the physics talk!

[NickSpector]

[quote name='NickH' post='669583' date='Nov 29 2009, 10:45 PM']Phasing is REALLY hard to explain in words but dead easy to explain with a picture.
Musical notes are a sine wave signal. If you put two on top of each other, as when you use both pickups on a 2-pup bass, the waves sit in line with each other and reinforce the sound. The sine wave of one starts on the up-ramp part of it's cycle, so does the other, both go up, win.

Problems arise when you introduce any kind of delay, such as a signal goes through when heavily FX'd. Say your played note has a frequency of 100 hz. Each full wave takes 1/100 of a second (10 milliseconds or ms) to go from the start point, do an "up bump" of a sine wave, a "down bump", and back to where it started ready for the next wave. Each "bump" therefore takes 5 ms. The unprocessed signal goes from your bass into your amp. Then the signal goes to your FX chain, and picks up 5 ms delay from the processing. This means that your pure bass signal starts an up-bump the same time the processed signal starts a down-bump.
If the signals were identical, you'd get zero sound at this point. Luckily for you, FX'ing the signal means they're not identical anymore but a significant amount of the signal strength is lost.

Of course this only affects the 100hz notes if your FX chain has that much delay. The 300 hz notes will be affected less, and as frequencies get higher and higher it's harder to "line up" the phased and non-phased signals to cancel everything out. That's small consellation to us as bassists since it's the low frequencies we're generally interested in.

The above phenomenon isn't solely linked to frequency-specific delay phase. If one of the speakers in a two-speaker cab is wired the wrong way round a similar effect happens. The same electrical signal from the power amp moves one speaker forward and the other backward. The result? Crap tinny sound. Same if the neck and bridge pickups in a bass are wired out of phase - or, even worse, the two coils in a single humbucking pickup.

Thus endeth the physics talk![/quote]


Kind of get it. Anything up near high E (7th fret of A) is quite quiet. Thought it might be a high fret or something? I will experiment with just running a straight signal again. Not more stereo rig for me, it seems. :-(

[tayste_2000]

Come hang out at mine mate we'll get that sorted, I'm down at Matamp on Sunday if you fancy a shorter trip to Huddersfield,

I have a friend that might be able to pick you up next time I have a gathering.

[NickSpector]

[quote name='tayste_2000' post='672263' date='Dec 2 2009, 05:09 PM']Come hang out at mine mate we'll get that sorted, I'm down at Matamp on Sunday if you fancy a shorter trip to Huddersfield,

I have a friend that might be able to pick you up next time I have a gathering.[/quote]


I may well be able to do that! I dunno what I'm doing Sunday, as the family wanna go out for a birthday meal, but I may try wriggle out of it.