Thinking of a new rig: Hartke HyDrive 410 or Barefaced cabs (Midget)

[René_Julien]

At the moment I'm playing a Gallien Krueger 1001RB-II through a Hartke 410XL cab.
I am not dissatisfied with it, it's an awesome tone monster, but the Hartke cab is too heavy for me.
In my "career" I always owned a 4x10" cab minimum. But all the things I hear about downsizing interests me.


Being a satisfied Hartke owner so far, I had my eye on the new HyDrive 410 cab. It weighs less to a point where I can handle transporting it.
I'm very fond of the aluminium speakers, that's also a big part of my Hartke love along with it's very good price/quality in my opinion.

I really love the idea of going a new route also.
I'm loving what Alex is doing with Barefaced... based on what I read about it (TalkBass mostly and the informative Barefaced website), but I have no experience with these cabs.

I admit, I don't have much knowledge on amps and cabs, I just use them.
I always thought: if I would downsize from a 4x10" cab, it would be to a 1x12" cab or two of them. (Seems realisticly enough for the places I play... jam bands, occasional small gigs)

After reading through the informative and welcoming Barefaced website, where I feel more like I am having a conversation along the lines of "are you sure you don't need the 15" Compact?" ( ), my interest is directed at the cabs with 12" speakers.
So namely: the Big Baby and the Midget, with or without tweeter.

So I'm not sure about:
- do I need a midrange driver?
- do I need a tweeter?
- (would I be happy with a 15" Compact? )

I play metal mostly, and in my experience I don't need heavy low-end, not any of that dubby booming stuff.
Lower growling midrange, that lies at between 150-300Hz.
Well, not that much growling, I prefer a very clean sound on average.
I don't know what I need/want at the highend soundspectrum. I used to be a treble booster but I'm coming back from that, since mostly it points out if I use a sloppy technique.
And after a while it get's annoying in a band setting. Well, in my band and the style we play.
I like a clear clean tone, but I don't know if hi-fi is the way to go. I'm no Victor Wooten.


So does anyone have experience with the Hartke cabs I mentioned and can compare them to the Barefaced 12" cabs?

I like the idea of one or two small lightweight 12" cabs that can get the job done of a 4x10 that I'm used to.
I don't play big venues, your average community center at largest.


Thank you.

Edited November 27, 2009 by René_Julien

[mildmanofrock]

I've never played through a Hartke cab - but the Big One blew my Ampeg 410HLF cab out the water.

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=57482"]Here's my review.[/url]

[alexclaber]

Thanks for the comprehensive post René! Simple answer - I'm pretty certain T'Midget will do the job for you, as you have a properly powerful amp in the GK1001, so you can get every last dB out of its very potent 12" driver. If you find it's not loud enough then you can add a second Midget, or if you find you're always boosting your lows when using T'Midget (and you're wanting more loudness) then you can add a Compact which will give you more of the same plus some added bottom.

This probably sounds ridiculous but according to my sums a single Midget should be able to produce as much high SPL bottom as the Hydrive 4x10". But how?! The Midget's driver is likely to have about twice as much excursion, so its Vd is about as much as three out of the four tens in the Hydrive. And then because the Hydrive is a sealed cab it doesn't have a port helping share the air movement between 40 and 100Hz. So if the Hydrive speakers are similar to Eminence's aluminium cone woofers the Midget would beat it on max SPL from 85Hz down to 40Hz. I really don't get why Hartke have gone with sealed cabs for their new models as that approach only works well with bass guitar for low SPL applications (like the Acoustic Image combos) or with very large cabs (8x10"/6x10"/4x12"/2x15"). Then again I guess it'll have saved them some cost on their neodymium purchases... Miaow.

Alex

P.S. I do think the 4.5XL was a great design, nice work with that one Larry!

[René_Julien]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='667658' date='Nov 27 2009, 07:24 PM']Thanks for the comprehensive post René! Simple answer - I'm pretty certain T'Midget will do the job for you, as you have a properly powerful amp in the GK1001, so you can get every last dB out of its very potent 12" driver. If you find it's not loud enough then you can add a second Midget, or if you find you're always boosting your lows when using T'Midget (and you're wanting more loudness) then you can add a Compact which will give you more of the same plus some added bottom.

This probably sounds ridiculous but according to my sums a single Midget should be able to produce as much high SPL bottom as the Hydrive 4x10". But how?! The Midget's driver is likely to have about twice as much excursion, so its Vd is about as much as three out of the four tens in the Hydrive. And then because the Hydrive is a sealed cab it doesn't have a port helping share the air movement between 40 and 100Hz. So if the Hydrive speakers are similar to Eminence's aluminium cone woofers the Midget would beat it on max SPL from 85Hz down to 40Hz. I really don't get why Hartke have gone with sealed cabs for their new models as that approach only works well with bass guitar for low SPL applications (like the Acoustic Image combos) or with very large cabs (8x10"/6x10"/4x12"/2x15"). Then again I guess it'll have saved them some cost on their neodymium purchases... Miaow.

Alex

P.S. I do think the 4.5XL was a great design, nice work with that one Larry![/quote]

Thank you Alex. That post helped me a lot.

Thanks to the information on your website (which today I discovered has changed, very nice) I was about 70% sure that the midget would suit me.
You just took me the other 30% of the way.

I know nothing (very very little) about acoustic engineering but I'll take your word for it that the Midget is (almost) on par with the HyDrive 410. (Wich was basicly my question, hurray)

I'm still not sure if I need a tweeter or not. Come to think of it, I never owned a cab with a tweeter and never felt I needed one. Although I am not treble shy.

A question though: what kind of speakers are you using in the Midget? (Maybe a tip for your website if you choose to, more info on which speakers. Unless it's already there and I'm too stupid to find it.)

I'm gonna move some stuff around here... and maybe in january or february I'll pull the trigger on one (probably two) of your cabs. (my gigging season will pick up in march)



Yeah, Larry is awesome.
I'm not going to turn my back on Hartke so soon.
I don't want to brag or anything, but most likely I will end up with a HyDrive and LH1000 also, my budget isn't that tight.
My basses seperately cost a lot more then the proposed rigs.
And I have more than one bass, why should I be limited to one rig.

There is Barefaced in my future. I love the looks (especially the font of Barefaced on the front of the cabs), lots of positive experiences, reasonable price.




mildmanofrock,

I read that thread. Seems pure awesomeness your Big One. But I think a Midget would be more suited for me.



edit:

forgot to add.

For the tweeter or not ponderings: my treble fetish clashed before with the guitarist and the keyboardplayer. :/

Edited November 27, 2009 by René_Julien

[Mr. Foxen]

I tried the Hydrive 4x10 in the shop. Pretty much sucked. No bottom end.

[René_Julien]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='667866' date='Nov 28 2009, 12:45 AM']I tried the Hydrive 4x10 in the shop. Pretty much sucked. No bottom end.[/quote]

I liked it.
I can see that that cab isn't for everyone, heard a lot of other people complain about that too.

For me it would get the job done... in the metal project I'm in now.

But I understand for normal rock or anything else it's too thin at the bottom end.

Maybe that's why I am interested in the Barefaced Midget.
I'd probably go with the tweeter one, for that highend frequency response.

10kg for a cab... instead of my 42kg of Hartke I have now. hmmm.

I saw a pic of a midget standing next too a 8x10 in this forum. Reminded me of a Mazda MX-5 next to a Dodge Charger.