6 string custom suggestions

[funkypenguin]

Hey everyone
im toying with the idea of splashing out on a custom Shuker 6 string bass (deluxe+)
im open to ideas. i have a very rough spec. in mind but im open to suggestions, since im looking to spend around £1500 and want it to be as good as possible.

[u]Rough Spec.[/u]

6 String (BEADGC)
34 scale
24 fret
16.5 or 17mm string spacing
Black Hardware
Tung Wingbass inspired body design (see image - bass on the right)
7 piece Thru-neck (maple + ebony)
Deep neck cutaway to give easy high fret access (see back of 'doods' 7 string)
Im thinking along the lines of a birdseye maple fretboard and either a flame maple or wenge (or a very dark wood) top. Perhaps an ash or walnut body?
Natural oil or satin finish
Active electronics and E.Q (vol., pickup pan, bass, mid, treb., slapswitch)

Areas im really looking for input are fretboard wood (or composite), body wood and pickup make/configuration. Im looking for a fairly bright sound that will come out in a band setting. The sound should have alot of power and clarity to it. I do like the Musicman Bongo setup of 2 seymour duncan pups (H/H) but i want to know if you can take the crunch off the sound with that kind of system. it has to be versatile.

Cheers guys
Ben

[Dood]

Well, I needn't recommend Shuker ... I think his reputation is well known on the board! *

Thats a nice spec you have. You obviously know the kinda thing you are after!

Tone wise, I think you'll find your pickup and electronic choice will have a greater affect on the tone of the amplified instrument than wood choices, but it's still good to look at striking a good balance. I think Walnut would make a good choice. I know (like my 7er) white ash is a popular choice. Similar in tone to Ash and is *usually* lighter, which I like a lot!

If you like the musicman bite, then look at pups with a similar pole piece arrangement, as they will have similar tone characteristics. For example.. I have pups that have dual rails in them.. and they do an awesome MM impression. (Though I do EQ them a little to take some of the bite out).

ermmm.. fretboard.. well, if you go composite, I think the bass will produce a little extra upper mids.. great for tapping and sizzling slap tones. However, be careful as I think if you go for hifi pups, composite and really hard body woods, you *could* make the bass sound a wee bit sterile (especially if your rig is HiFi too.)

Oh just spotted the natural oiled body.. that should warm things up. Layers and layers of heavy glass like lacquer can sometimes improve treble response in an acoustic instrument, which could also detract from natural warmth.

ok.. back to the fretboard.. sorry I'm typing as I think! - Why not go for what I intend on my next Shuker.. to have a slice of composite with a birdseye top? - I thought I may as well go mad.. 7 piece laminate with a 2 piece laminate fretboard lol lol!

Um.. I hope this makes sense.. I think I am rambling a bit!

Oh.. are you going Single or Double cut?
















* my usual disclaimer about other luthiers being good too..

[Bassman7]

[quote name='funkypenguin' date='Oct 12 2007, 05:36 PM' post='73483']

My last six was a Modulus Quantum which was just awesome but even pre-owned it will cost! Nice dream though....

[Johngh]

On my Shuker 6 headless I went for EMG 45P, 45J, pups and Shuker 3 band Eq. This was based on listening to the soundclips on Jons site. I loved the tone of James Crofts Thru neck Deluxe 6, Zebrano body, wenge / maple neck, santos f/board. I pick mine up in the morning Ho Hum ! and Jon recons it sounds a peach. I went for birdeye maple fingerboard as I liked the look of Doods bass, and quilt maple top as I love quilt maple, we went with white ash body to keep the blonde look of the instrument. James Crofts bass is the 3rd one down in the soundclips link on Jons site, check out the tone, its great. Pics of mine will be up tomorrow on my build thread.

[7string]

OOO, I do like these kind of threads !! For what it's worth, here's my 2 cents / personal opinion !!

Walnut seems a good choice for a body wood and you can get pieces which don't weigh a ton either. Ken Smith refers to walnut as having "articulate high end with clear lows". If you're only using it for a core, you won't need an expensive figured piece (as no-one will ever see it !!) so that saves a few quid there...

Ash is similarly a good choice and is desribed as producing "bright, punchy tones".

Unusual choice having a maple and ebony neck. Don't exactly know why it's not used a lot though, you could always get the same light/heavy idea with wenge and maple. The stripey chocolate of wenge looks great against the lighter coloured maple.

Fretboard wise, maple has the reputation of being bright, but needs to be covered by a coat of finish otherwise it gets real dirty, real quick. If you want something unfinished how about pau ferro. A realtive of rosewood, but slightly lighter in colour with a streaky grain. Another idea is maybe looking at acrylised woods...

Top-wise how about massacar ebony, cocobolo, wenge or even solid a solid, figured walnut body ??

Finally, you can always take the power out of a humbucker, by coil tapping it. In theory you could even coil-tap each pickup seperately, then have a mixture of one tapped and one full humbucker, or vice versa...

No doubt, others will chime in on this thread. Quite a few on here have gone through the same questions as yourself on the start of the custom route. I quite enjoyed this part of the build myself!!

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='Bassman7' post='73530' date='Oct 12 2007, 07:33 PM']My last six was a Modulus Quantum which was just awesome but even pre-owned it will cost! Nice dream though....[/quote]

My main bass is a Modulus Q6, it's quite simply the BEST 6 string I've ever played.

Slightly out of your budget, but you only need a 50% deposit to order, and there's a 6 month wait for them.

Mine is fitted with the John East U-retro Deluxe preamp, which I highly recommend.

[Bigwan]

I've been speaking to Jon about a custom 6 string over the past few weeks.

I'm currently thinking of the following spec:

6 string bolt-on
All wenge neck (pores filled for a smooth satin finish)
Birdseye maple board with matching birdseye head veneer
Solid bridge (probably Schaller 2000 on Jon's recommendations - to allow adjustable spacing) with 18mm centre spacing
Wenge body (35mm thick to keep weight down)
Quilted maple top with tiger eye gloss finish
EMG DC pickups
ACG/John East filter preamp (the one thing I miss about my Wal!)
Ramp (quilted maple to match body and finish)

Jon does a 20% discount for multiple bass orders at once... I've thrown the idea of an additional stingray style 5 string (maple neck, ash body) at him and he's putting together a spec for that and he'll be coming back with prices in the next few days... Now Jon accepts plastic as payment there could be a big bill on the way!!!

Edit: The following pic is the inspiration for my specs...

Edited October 13, 2007 by Bigwan

[Bassman7]

Man, sounds superb but you really should check out what Modulus can offer as they make superb 6-strings and then there's their excellent carbon fibre neck and that wick sustain and spot on intonation! Try S.M.A.R.T they're always very helpful.

Edited October 13, 2007 by Bassman7

[Bigwan]

Hi Bassman7 - not sure if your Modulus recommendation is directed to me, but I've never played a modulus I actually liked. Each to their own I suppose! Wouldn't the world be so boring if we were all alike in our tastes!

[SMART]

[quote name='Bigwan' post='73954' date='Oct 13 2007, 09:58 PM']Hi Bassman7 - not sure if your Modulus recommendation is directed to me, but I've never played a modulus I actually liked. Each to their own I suppose! Wouldn't the world be so boring if we were all alike in our tastes![/quote]

Absolutely, totally agree with your view on your reply to Bassman7.

However, have you ever played a Q6 with Chechen fingerboard? What was it it that you did not like about the Modulus' you've tried? Be interesting to know!

Ian

[Bigwan]

[quote name='SMART' post='73955' date='Oct 13 2007, 09:03 PM']Absolutely, totally agree with your view on your reply to Bassman7.

However, have you ever played a Q6 with Chechen fingerboard? What was it it that you did not like about the Modulus' you've tried? Be interesting to know!

Ian[/quote]

Good question and I'm afraid it's one I don't have a good answer for! I've played 3 over the past few years. One was Randy Hope Taylor's custom Flea (double Lane Poor MM pickups). They all felt... stiff and... plasticy - not a good description. They didn't sound lively to me. Not organic. I think it's just graphite necked basses in general as I don't like Status basses for the same reason (I'm gonna get flamed around here if I say that too loud!). I'm not saying I wouldn't give a Modulus another chance - but in my, admittedly, limited experience, they're not for me at any price, and especially not at their retail price!

I've never played a Q6 at all.

[tempo]

why do you want any more than 4 strings?


















^_^

[SMART]

I supplied and spec'ed Randy's Modulus. It originally had a single MM pickup and then he wanted to add another so Martin Peterson at The Gallery in London added that for him to broaden his sound out even more. I believe he's playing a Musicman with the same double MM pickup combination presently.

Randy wanted a special bass, very personal, so he drew a caricature of himself on some paper which we faxed to Modulus with the aim of seeing whether they could copy it as an inlay on the fingerboard and hey presto they did and you've seen the results - the exact image from the fax was cut in to the fingerboard with mother-of-pearl inlay exquisitely.

Randy was playing with the Jeff Beck band at the time (with Jennifer Batton on counter lead-guitar, Steve Alexander on drums, Randy of course holding down the low end and then the master himself Mr Beck on lead).

The choice of the Modulus was simply (as with Flea with the Chilis) that it had a greater presence and cut in the mix both on stage and in the studio that any other bass could not offer especially with the large amount of mid-range sound with Jeff and Jennifer and Steve techno rock sound. The sound engineers loved it and it did exactly what it says on the tin!

Yes, a carbon fibre neck is very different from good ol' wood but then I needn't remind everyone of its stability, etc, etc, etc.

The best combination instruments we know of that get the balance right with the advanced technology of the Modulus neck is using Bartolinis with either of the Aguilar preamps (OBP-1 or OBP-3) and as written on this forum previously this combination give you an instrument able to cover every genre of music superbly with a warm fat or thin sound, classic or modern in its tone and sound.

If the full-on carbon fibre neck does not suit then there's the Modulus Genesis neck which is ideal for those woodies out there! Again a superb concept and an answer to any concerns about a 100% carbon fibre neck.

Ian

[7string]

[quote name='Bigwan' post='73941' date='Oct 13 2007, 09:29 PM']I've been speaking to Jon about a custom 6 string over the past few weeks.

I'm currently thinking of the following spec:

6 string bolt-on
All wenge neck (pores filled for a smooth satin finish)
Birdseye maple board with matching birdseye head veneer
Solid bridge (probably Schaller 2000 on Jon's recommendations - to allow adjustable spacing) with 18mm centre spacing
Wenge body (35mm thick to keep weight down)
Quilted maple top with tiger eye gloss finish
EMG DC pickups
ACG/John East filter preamp (the one thing I miss about my Wal!)
Ramp (quilted maple to match body and finish)

Jon does a 20% discount for multiple bass orders at once... I've thrown the idea of an additional stingray style 5 string (maple neck, ash body) at him and he's putting together a spec for that and he'll be coming back with prices in the next few days... Now Jon accepts plastic as payment there could be a big bill on the way!!!

Edit: The following pic is the inspiration for my specs...[/quote]

Is the neck one piece, or laminates of wenge with the grain in different directions ?? (Personally, I'd go for a maple/wenge thru neck so you still have the highs from maple) How about a quilted headstock face to match the body instead of birdseye to match the neck.

Sounds like it's going to be a cool looking and very flexible instrument. The ACG pre seems to amaze all who have heard it !!

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='tempo' post='73999' date='Oct 14 2007, 12:31 AM']why do you want any more than 4 strings?
^_^[/quote]

Why do you want less ?.

Personal preference, I'm also very used to having 6, I really couldn't manage on anything less than a 5 string now.

I play a lot of jazz, and a lot of what I play is in Eb and Bb, the lowest Eb on a 4 string bass is only a semitone lower than the lowest note on a guitar, having a nice deep low Eb is so cool, plus it means I don't have so many position changes to make when playing while following a chord chart, ever seen a page from the real book ?.

[guyl]

I have a Conklin Sidewinder 7 (featured in Bassist a few years ago). The neck and fingerboard are purpleheart. I'm no expert but if the purpleheart is one of the reasons that the Bass sounds so tight, even and , well ...brilliant, I'd ask for it every time.

[Dragonlord]

Since you said you're looking for clarity, may I suggest fanned frets... maybe a small difference if you're scared of it, like 33.5"-35.5".

[SMART]

[quote name='guyl' post='74008' date='Oct 14 2007, 01:12 AM']I have a Conklin Sidewinder 7 (featured in Bassist a few years ago). The neck and fingerboard are purpleheart. I'm no expert but if the purpleheart is one of the reasons that the Bass sounds so tight, even and , well ...brilliant, I'd ask for it every time.[/quote]

The woods used in a bass do have some affect on the overall tone but don't forget all the other components as well such as the voicing of the pickups and electronics used to control volume and tone. Purpleheart on its own would not be the fundamental or overriding factor in giving your instrument a tight sound. The finish on the body also affects how the whole body will resonate such as a high gloss, satin or natural finish.

I remember talking to Pete the Fish Stevens of WAL some years ago (and Pete has some pretty definite ideas on all of this!) and he explained it did not matter what type of woods and finish you had with an instrument (for cosmetic reasons, he feel there's too much marketing hype placed on this aspect of the instrument) that is to say if you plummed for a Bartolini system (pickup and preamp) you could always hear that it was a Bartolini equipped bass (and that's not saying it's a bad sound either!). In other words the dominant factor in your final tone (apart from superb natural ability, magic fingers and an ability to hit he '1' on time) are your pickups and electronics and then how you may further sculpt your tone via whatever amplification system you opt for.

Sure the kind of woods that are spec'ed do have some effect on body and neck resonance but most of it is cosmetic and it's not as much as some marketing blurb would have you believe.

For instance, because of the way Rick Turner's Renaissaance instruments are constructed and amplified with onboard electronics, the sound and tone is designed to be the same whatever instrument you play regarding finish. So a High Renaissance instrument with gorgeous high gloss finish and trimmings will sound the same as Studio Special with a more basic satin finish.

Just some thoughts again!!

Ian

Edited October 14, 2007 by SMART

[cris the man]

if you play metal - get a Dean Edge Q6 , its a good 6 string at £500 odd. Its a very powerful bass though , its destroyed my ashdown 180combo. If your amp has good quality cones , thats the best one i think ... unless ur getting somethhing crazy

[tempo]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='74005' date='Oct 14 2007, 12:55 AM']Why do you want less ?.

Personal preference, I'm also very used to having 6, I really couldn't manage on anything less than a 5 string now.

I play a lot of jazz, and a lot of what I play is in Eb and Bb, the lowest Eb on a 4 string bass is only a semitone lower than the lowest note on a guitar, having a nice deep low Eb is so cool, plus it means I don't have so many position changes to make when playing while following a chord chart, ever seen a page from the real book ?.[/quote]


Ha, was just kidding!! I play 5,6&7 strings myself.

I agree with most thats been said about the importance (or lack of) in wood choices in regard to tone, the differences are minimal compared to electronics. I would go with the timber that gave me the best combination of visuals end comfort/weight. That said, i love wenge necks, because of the feel (hate painted necks!)

[Dragonlord]

[quote name='SMART' post='74044' date='Oct 14 2007, 10:27 AM']The woods used in a bass do have some affect on the overall tone but don't forget all the other components as well such as the voicing of the pickups and electronics used to control volume and tone. Purpleheart on its own would not be the fundamental or overriding factor in giving your instrument a tight sound. The finish on the body also affects how the whole body will resonate such as a high gloss, satin or natural finish.

I remember talking to Pete the Fish Stevens of WAL some years ago (and Pete has some pretty definite ideas on all of this!) and he explained it did not matter what type of woods and finish you had with an instrument (for cosmetic reasons, he feel there's too much marketing hype placed on this aspect of the instrument) that is to say if you plummed for a Bartolini system (pickup and preamp) you could always hear that it was a Bartolini equipped bass (and that's not saying it's a bad sound either!). In other words the dominant factor in your final tone (apart from superb natural ability, magic fingers and an ability to hit he '1' on time) are your pickups and electronics and then how you may further sculpt your tone via whatever amplification system you opt for.

Sure the kind of woods that are spec'ed do have some effect on body and neck resonance but most of it is cosmetic and it's not as much as some marketing blurb would have you believe.

For instance, because of the way Rick Turner's Renaissaance instruments are constructed and amplified with onboard electronics, the sound and tone is designed to be the same whatever instrument you play regarding finish. So a High Renaissance instrument with gorgeous high gloss finish and trimmings will sound the same as Studio Special with a more basic satin finish.

Just some thoughts again!!

Ian[/quote]
I recently A/Bed my Dingwall Prima vs another Prima with the same pickups, electronics and more or less the same woods. Guess what; they were significantly different. Mine had that deep low end and somewhat scooped mids, while the other one lacked the bottom but had very organic mids. Just goes to show you never can tell.

[Alpha-Dave]

[quote name='Bigwan' post='73941' date='Oct 13 2007, 09:29 PM']I've been speaking to Jon about a custom 6 string over the past few weeks.

I'm currently thinking of the following spec:

6 string bolt-on
All wenge neck (pores filled for a smooth satin finish)
Birdseye maple board with matching birdseye head veneer
Solid bridge (probably Schaller 2000 on Jon's recommendations - to allow adjustable spacing) with 18mm centre spacing
Wenge body (35mm thick to keep weight down)
Quilted maple top with tiger eye gloss finish
EMG DC pickups
ACG/John East filter preamp (the one thing I miss about my Wal!)
Ramp (quilted maple to match body and finish)

Jon does a 20% discount for multiple bass orders at once... I've thrown the idea of an additional stingray style 5 string (maple neck, ash body) at him and he's putting together a spec for that and he'll be coming back with prices in the next few days... Now Jon accepts plastic as payment there could be a big bill on the way!!!

Edit: The following pic is the inspiration for my specs...[/quote]

As with the Sei thread, I'm pretty sure that Alan is happy to supply his pre to the US custom builders, but not the UK ones as they are his direct competitors. Still, his work is superb!

Also, I've met Jon many times and would have been very happy to go with his work, but it was the ACG pre that particularly swung it for me.

D.

[Bigwan]

[quote name='Alpha-Dave' post='74188' date='Oct 14 2007, 03:49 PM']As with the Sei thread, I'm pretty sure that Alan is happy to supply his pre to the US custom builders, but not the UK ones as they are his direct competitors. Still, his work is superb!

Also, I've met Jon many times and would have been very happy to go with his work, but it was the ACG pre that particularly swung it for me.

D.[/quote]

If I have to buy an ACG pre and install it myself then that's what I'll do...

[Bigwan]

[quote name='7string' post='74002' date='Oct 13 2007, 11:37 PM']Is the neck one piece, or laminates of wenge with the grain in different directions ?? (Personally, I'd go for a maple/wenge thru neck so you still have the highs from maple) How about a quilted headstock face to match the body instead of birdseye to match the neck.

Sounds like it's going to be a cool looking and very flexible instrument. The ACG pre seems to amaze all who have heard it !![/quote]

Last time I spoke to Jon about a custom bass (which was waylayed by a few years by an engagement ring ) he said he doesn't do one piece necks. So a multi-lam wenge neck it is (best sounding bass I've ever played is my Warwick Corvette with all wenge neck - sold my Wal as it wasn't getting used!). Was going to go all wenge (including fingerboard), but wanted to add a bit of the maple thing without changing the neck too much, and I like maple boards.

I had thought about the headstock matching - and I may change my mind about that yet!

[jakenewmanbass]

Save up and custom order an Alembic direct from the US. you will never play a better bass in your life (IMO)
Jake