Learning EQ

[The Goatreich]

This is a bit of a noob question, especially as I've been playing for a very long time now, but I've always had the issue where I just don't know how to setup EQ on amps to get the tone I want, and then how to tweak the EQ for the room and all the other variables that are involved. Generally I use my Sansamp which is set to the SVT model setup and that works a treat for me.

Are there any real ways to train your ears to listen out for certain things that might lead to certain frequency boosts/cuts? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!!

[Bilbo]

In general, and, theoretically at every gig, start with everything straight up and work from there, adding or removing frequencies to taste. Takes a while at first but gets quicker as you practice. Never forget the realtionshipo between eq and volume, however. A great sound played quietly is not necessarily a great sound when you turn the volume up.

[The Goatreich]

This is where I get lost. If I flatten my EQ I can just never tell what needs to come up or down in order to sounds "good" and what cuts through best.

[Bilbo]

Start flat and turn the bass eq all the way down, listen, then turn it all the way up, listen again. Then put it back to the centre. Do this for mids and highs and you will have already learned something. There is no magic here. Just use you ears and figure it out by trial and error.

[The Funk]

And if in doubt, whack up the mids

[The Goatreich]

That's pretty much what I have been doing haha. The sansamp has been a total godsend!

[davidmpires]

Bilbo although I agree with you, most of time it's not possible to do that at gigs. You get to a full pub place your on stage plug it in have maybe 30 seconds to see if everything is ok and then you wait to get on. It's not like you can be playing random notes in turns with your guitar player to see what works and what doesn't. I usually have everything flat and then during the first couple song I adjust as needed, But i'd say that one needs to get training. I would suggest to rent a studio and try everything there.

[Mr. Foxen]

If you have a graphic, and turning up the bottom most one doesn't do much, probably don't turn it up any more, as its probably breaking your cab more than changing your sound.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='davidmpires' post='672245' date='Dec 2 2009, 04:44 PM']Bilbo although I agree with you, most of time it's not possible to do that at gigs. You get to a full pub place your on stage plug it in have maybe 30 seconds to see if everything is ok and then you wait to get on.[/quote]

This is why I've settled on a Hartke head with just three tone knobs. If I can't get a good sound with those and the controls on my bass / picking hand technique then I almost certainly wouldn't have time to get a good sound with an amp with an 11-band EQ, parametric mids, buttons for "bright" and "sub" and "scoop" and so on, or a dozen factory presets with vague one-word names.

So long as I can be heard and my sound is leaning more towards Studio One than Korn I'm happy.

Edited December 2, 2009 by thisnameistaken

[allighatt0r]

If you just want to get a feel for EQ in general (it sounds to me from what you're saying that this could be your issue), and if you have a cd player with an EQ (graphic or otherwise), set that flat and start some music playing, then experiment and see what does what, until you have the music sounding the way you like. This should give you a chance to get familiar and learn how to use an EQ so that you can listen to your bass when the EQ is flat, and quickly be able to decide what you want go up or down etc.

[The Goatreich]

Good idea, thanks!

[LukeFRC]

there's basically two things you will be doing with your Eq.

firstly you are changing your flat signal to the room. Certain frequencies will sound louder than other. In an ideal world you would cut the ones that resonate to make everything flat sounding. (ie the sound your bass is making) This isnt massivly possible with simple amp Eq controls though so you're fiddling trying to find the closest freq. to the resonant one(s)

the second thing you are doing is sculpting the tone of what you are doing, some folk like lots of mids, others lots of highs (esp if slapping), some like to boost the bass, others cut it to make it controllable. This is to make you sound like you want to sound like, (as much as that is possible with the instrument, my P bass will never sound like Jaco)

all this is done through listening. Listen to a band playing and try and hear how the different frequencies interact accross the range of sound they are making.


two things to bare in mind:
- the room set up is more important than your sound. If you have 'your tone' yet it is uncontrolable in the space you are playing in you would be better off not playing. Don't be tone proud!
- Your tone may sound great in your bedroom, you may have spent 4 days wrestling with your pedal board settings, brilliant, but I (in my sound man's hat) don't care. The best tone is the one that fits with everything else in the band. Listen to some of the soloed bass tracks on the thread, some dont sound that amazing- but in the mix they work, thats what to aim for.

[KevB]

Wasn't there a youtube link in an older thread where Nathan East (or possibly some other well known bassist but I think it was him) was running through what the EQ did on his signature amps? do a search on youtube and you'll probably find it. It looked fairly well explained.

[The Goatreich]

Cool thanks.

[Faithless]

[quote name='KevB' post='672300' date='Dec 2 2009, 07:39 PM']Wasn't there a youtube link in an older thread where Nathan East (or possibly some other well known bassist but I think it was him) was running through what the EQ did on his signature amps? do a search on youtube and you'll probably find it. It looked fairly well explained.[/quote]


Marcus Miller, I believe.

[KevB]

[quote name='Faithless' post='672324' date='Dec 2 2009, 05:58 PM']Marcus Miller, I believe.[/quote]

Ah yes, I recall now it was demoing his SWR preamp. Not exaclty EQ but it includes some good basic stuff;
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hx-UYcUHQI&feature=PlayList&p=5286C22F0A35DD37&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hx-UYcUHQI...=PL&index=8[/url]
There's a part 2 but the link seems to have gone squiffy...

[Randy_Marsh]

Eden have a manual on their site, its really good and helped me loads

[url="http://www.eden-electronics.com/info/manuals/pdf/WT550_08102005.pdf"]http://www.eden-electronics.com/info/manua...50_08102005.pdf[/url]

[NickH]

Become mates with a good PA guy. Follow him round gigs (carrying gear to help), then sit at the desk as he adjusts his rig for the room, and then mixes and EQ's the instruments into a good band mix. This will teach you a great deal about not only how to EQ your bass, but also what the other guys in the band should be doing too.

[thepurpleblob]

If it's any help (and it isn't) I haven't got the slightest idea either. I have always set everything flat and hoped for the best. As was said above, playing pubs means that I rarely get the chance to set up anyway. Despite a lot of in depth talk about getting "your sound" in a live situation a decent bass with a powerful enough rig tends to be good enough at worst with flat settings IMHO. My Ashdown amp has buttons to bypass the 7 band eq, the sub harmonic thingy and the valve drive whatsit. They stay bypassed as I have no idea what they do and they don't make things sound any different to me so I strongly suspect that the audience will notice even less. The thing that matters is the nearly 600W

If you are going through a PA or in a studio situation there's a guy behind the desk - and the eq is his problem. That's what he's paid for.

Let the abuse begin

[oldmanrock]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='672469' date='Dec 2 2009, 08:49 PM']If you are going through a PA or in a studio situation there's a guy behind the desk - and the eq is his problem. That's what he's paid for.[/quote]
Oh so true. So very true.

[The Goatreich]

Haha, some interesting points and good advice. Cheers once again guys. I am mates with a good PA guy already so maybe I'll ask him for some tips and do some reading around of the links given.

[Musky]

[quote name='The Goatreich' post='672236' date='Dec 2 2009, 04:37 PM']That's pretty much what I have been doing haha. The sansamp has been a total godsend![/quote]

You'll probably have to boost the mids with the sans amp anyway - with the EQ flat it has scooped mids.

The idea of playing about with the graphic in your media player is a good one, but you might like to look at [url="http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm"]this site[/url] for a graphic representation of what's going on as well.

[OldGit]

[quote name='KevB' post='672349' date='Dec 2 2009, 06:17 PM']Ah yes, I recall now it was demoing his SWR preamp. Not exaclty EQ but it includes some good basic stuff;
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hx-UYcUHQI&feature=PlayList&p=5286C22F0A35DD37&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hx-UYcUHQI...=PL&index=8[/url]
There's a part 2 but the link seems to have gone squiffy...[/quote]


Good stuff, but I didn't recognise him without his pork pie hat

Part two (on compression)

Edited December 3, 2009 by OldGit

[markdavid]

Hi , just thought I would add my 2 cents . I've just recently got an eq pedal as the eq section on my combo amp is limited to say the least. Anyhow I was trying to get a tighter, more defined sound and boosted the treble sliders and gave the 800hz slider a slight boost, then I had a fiddle with the 2 bass sliders (50 and 120hz) and lo and behold there it was , by cutting slightly at 120hz I had got rid of all the woolyness I was hearing before , there was mids after all they were just being masked by high bass frequencies.

[The Goatreich]

Yeah I guess the only way of training my ears is to just get in there and fiddle around. It's difficult without knowing exactly what I'm listening for but maybe with time that will become clearer.

Once again cheers for the advice peeps.