Swing & Shuffle feels

[pip]

Just to clarify,


Does the shuffle count as 3 i.e. 1 2 3 1 2 3 in quater notes? Also do you count the swing saying 1 and a 2 but miss out or mentally say and?.
I just want to clear up on the subject you see.
When my teacher a while taught me about the swing and shuffle feels i took it in but i don't think I quite understood, i check up on the feels using the net just to understand. But can someone please explain this to me? I mean how do you use you metromone say, when you want to practice a swing feel with a scale. I've heard of using 2 and 4? I mean do you count that 2 and a 4? I don't know

Thanks Phil

[Alun]

Hi Phil. On paper a shuffle and swing look kinda similar as they both involve triplets - dividing the beat into three. So a bar of 4/4 is counted as four sets of three - 123, 223, 323, 423 or 1 and a, 2 and a, 3 and a, 4 and a.

The shuffle rythm is the stereotypical Status Quo grrove - dun -der, dun der, etc played by hitting notes on, as you say the downbeat and the third bit of the triplet so..

ONE (and) A, TWO (and) A, THREE (and) A, FOUR (and) A

Often you'll hear it with the downbeats quite short and the "A" quite long which gives that du-duuur, du-duuur feel

With swing, the idea is basically the same except the notes are played for their full value, so with "one-and-a",you would make the "one" last until the "a" rather than cutting it short.

Regarding the metronome, if it's clicking quarter notes then it doesn't really suggest any feel/groove just a pulse. If your playing a quarter note scale, what will make it sound different is how you are subdividing the beats in your head. Weird as it may sound, counting "one and a", etc will make the quarter notes "feel" different to counting 16th notes ( one e and a).

And now, the 2 & 4 idea. The idea of this is to give you the backbeat ( the hi hat in jazz, or the snare in rock, blues, etc) and leave the responsibility of the downbeat to you. I find it really helpful for swing and straight grooves. The trickiest bit is getting to hear the metronome click as 2 & 4 not 1 & 3. Easiest way is to start your metronome at about 50bpm, and you'll no doubt hear it is as the downbeat..

Click two Click four and so on.

Count along like this until you feel comfortable and then drop in a bar of three before returning to four. The click will now be on two and four...

Click two Click four, Click two Click, one Click two Click and so on

Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Alun

[pip]

Thannks Alun, I was hoping someone with a jazz background would explain it to me. I think I can just about get my head around that!

Cheers

Phil

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Alun' post='74168' date='Oct 14 2007, 03:41 PM']Hi Phil. On paper a shuffle and swing look kinda similar as they both involve triplets - dividing the beat into three. So a bar of 4/4 is counted as four sets of three - 123, 223, 323, 423 or 1 and a, 2 and a, 3 and a, 4 and a.

The shuffle rythm is the stereotypical Status Quo grrove - dun -der, dun der, etc played by hitting notes on, as you say the downbeat and the third bit of the triplet so..

ONE (and) A, TWO (and) A, THREE (and) A, FOUR (and) A

Often you'll hear it with the downbeats quite short and the "A" quite long which gives that du-duuur, du-duuur feel

With swing, the idea is basically the same except the notes are played for their full value, so with "one-and-a",you would make the "one" last until the "a" rather than cutting it short.

Regarding the metronome, if it's clicking quarter notes then it doesn't really suggest any feel/groove just a pulse. If your playing a quarter note scale, what will make it sound different is how you are subdividing the beats in your head. Weird as it may sound, counting "one and a", etc will make the quarter notes "feel" different to counting 16th notes ( one e and a).

And now, the 2 & 4 idea. The idea of this is to give you the backbeat ( the hi hat in jazz, or the snare in rock, blues, etc) and leave the responsibility of the downbeat to you. I find it really helpful for swing and straight grooves. The trickiest bit is getting to hear the metronome click as 2 & 4 not 1 & 3. Easiest way is to start your metronome at about 50bpm, and you'll no doubt hear it is as the downbeat..

Click two Click four and so on.

Count along like this until you feel comfortable and then drop in a bar of three before returning to four. The click will now be on two and four...

Click two Click four, Click two Click, one Click two Click and so on

Hope that helps.
Cheers,
Alun[/quote]

Great reply Alun, from a fellow welshman.
Jake

Edited October 15, 2007 by jakesbass