wal bass - are they really worth the premium?

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='JTUK' post='674212' date='Dec 4 2009, 02:51 PM']!!!!!!!!!!!!! are you saying the Wal is going to cost you £3200...??

And ask yourself how easy it will be to get that sort of money back.. if and when you come to trade it in or sell it on.

Sort after hot-name jazzes may get that sort of money as the market is big..not sure that applies to Wals.[/quote]

Wals are pretty rare, they don't come up on the used market very often and many "players players" are known for playing them. They hold their value exceptionally well. Even the old "budget" single-pickup Pro models are still sought after.

I'd much rather have a Wal than any super-jazz. It's one of the basses I've always wanted (but have always been to cheap to buy)

[franzbassist]

Intersting thread...

I've owned 11 Wals over the course of the last 20 years and every one was a great player, but then I do know how to pick 'em! The best of the lot though was a 8lb Mk III fretless 5 that just [i]sang[/i]; it's also the only bass I ever regret selling.

However, I have also played some Wals that were real dogs - very heavy, dead weights on your shoulder that neck dived like crazy. Some seemed to sound "dead", with no life at all to the sound quality. The second Wal I bought, direct from Electric Wood, was a fretless Mk I and the neck was just covered in dead spots; Pete took the neck off, threw it in the bin, and the replacement played just fine! Why he didn't bin the first neck in the first place is still beyond me...

So, many are great basses with that very individual look and sound, but some are very heavy, with awful neck dive and less than inspiring tones inside them.

At the end of the day, those who want to, and can, spend £3.2k on a Wal will, those who don't, and can't, won't. Luckily for Paul he has inherited a marque that is still very well respected, and that reputation obviously counts for something if his order book is anything to go by.

There are loads of wonderful basses out there, the key is finding the ones that inspire you.

Cheers all

Gareth

Edited December 4, 2009 by walbassist

[noelk27]

[quote name='Bloodaxe' post='674286' date='Dec 4 2009, 04:21 PM']I'm not a Wal owner, ... but I have played a couple [and] I can see why people love them with a passion ... , but they're not for me.

I'm sticking with my old Aria SB's - they just fit me, physically & sonically ...

Try a Wal, they are very, very, good & if you fall in love with it then you'll justify the expense - but try one first.[/quote]

As my preference is for a bass with two pickups, early 80s I was using a Wal (unfortunately can't recall the model - two pickups, front-mounted control plate with battery compartment, five pots and selector switch - most likely a 70s models, as I picked it up used) and an Aria Pro II SB 900. Parted company with the Wal circa '85, as I could never get a sound out of it that I could live with - it was too aggressive for my tastes, and needed to be played hard to get the best out of it. These were no set up issues, as at that time my instruments were being maintained by a guy who knows his stuff - Jimmy Moon (a well-respected Scots luthier).

But, circa '88, after consuming the lines on Rush's Hold Your Fire album ('87), and seeing the band on tour ('88), I again found myself seduced by the mystic of Wal, and made one of those impulse purchases, a black Pro series model, replete with gold hardware, ala Geddy. Around 18 months later the Wal was traded against a G&L El Toro and Yamaha BB5000A as, again, I found myself unable to settle on a tone that suited my style, and the projects I was involved in.

In addition to the two I owned, which certainly had their own characters, I’ve had the opportunity to play a good number more, and found the quality of the product to be variable.

For sure, there's something about a Wal that catches the eye, and also the ear, but if you can't dial what it offers in to suit you, your style, your sound, then it's not the bass for you, no matter how much you love the look, the image. But you'll only know that after trying one - although you probably want to try more - out.

As for the price of a new Wal, I have to question the tag. Prices starting at £3,200, well, I’d be hoping that the company behind the brand were producing a more consistent product than in the past.

Oh, and the SB 900, well, I still own that one (the exact one - a 1980 walnut-faced example, from before Aria diluted the circuitry, in my opinion). But then, horses for courses.

[Sibob]

[quote name='walbassist' post='674491' date='Dec 4 2009, 08:41 PM']Pete took the neck off, threw it in the bin
Why he didn't bin the first neck in the first place is still beyond me...[/quote]

But the moment someone plays a dodgy CS "OH MY GOD FENDER ARE CRAP"
Every builder and manufacturer puts out something dodgy every now and then. It's relative though, Electric Wood maybe put out, what?, 50 basses a year when Pete was still going?. Fender, as an example manufacturer, put out a few hundred thousand!.

Definitly pop into the Merchant in Colchester, and the Gallaryin London, take your bass, and have a play of loads others. It's a day out if nothing else

Si

[Mr.T]

[quote name='Sibob' post='674540' date='Dec 4 2009, 10:08 PM']Every builder and manufacturer puts out something dodgy every now and then.[/quote]

Although I appreciate the fact that Status basses are not to everyones taste...
I have never come across one that could honestly be described as 'dodgy'.

[bh2]

Back to Wals... if you don't mind the price, and you really want and can afford one, I'd say get one... don't forget when Mick and Percy et al were playing theirs, they were a lot cheaper than they are now... heck... I've seen used Mk1s going for up to £3000!! I regret not having bought one when I had the chance.

As for Mick and Percy's sound I would put that down to their own particular style of fretless playing rather than make of bass. I found I could dail in a very reasonable Wal sound on my SB1000.

[Mr.T]

[quote name='bh2' post='674800' date='Dec 5 2009, 10:48 AM']Back to Wals...[/quote]

Ok.

The point I am making is that I think it is a 'poor show' for a maker of expensive basses to release a 'dodgy' one.
I would expect quality control to pick up a problem and not release the bass!

Back to Wal...
I owned one briefly in the mid 80's (£900 new, if my memory serves me).
It was beautifully made, and very playable, but had too many dead spots on the neck.

It had to go, and was replaced with the Status Empathy, which I still use as my main bass.

I am not knocking Wal's, this was just my experience.

[BigRedX]

There are reasons for the £3200 entry price tag on a Wal - and remember that's the entry price only...

1. Everything apart from the machine heads and strap buttons and made by Wal or exclusively for them, and the components like the bridge, pickups and pre-amp aren't simply modified versions of other designs, they are completely unique. There are only two other British luthiers I know of, doing this - Gus, who's instruments are in the same price bracket as Wal, and Enfield who are currently a bit cheaper, but are a new brand and don't yet have the reputation that Wal has.

2. Until Paul Herman officially took over the brand this year, the prospect of any new Wal basses was remote. Only a handful had been built during the the previous 5 years. This coupled with the fact that bassists like Justin Chancellor have been raising the profile of Wal, means that there is a larger than normal demand for them. Since massively long wait times was one of the problems plaguing Wal before Paul Herman took it on, I believe that the price has been set high to keep the demand down to achievable levels.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='4000' post='674381' date='Dec 4 2009, 05:47 PM']Having said that, and this is important, every Wal you play will be different to some degree (all the ones I've played have been), as will every other individual bass (whatever the make) out there. For instance I've played great Fender Ps, mediocre ones and terrible ones, and it's also quite possible that the ones I thought were terrible someone else would've loved, and vice versa. You have to find the instrument that suits you, and that can mean anything from trying a lot to (if you're lucky like Bilbo) loving one of the first ones you pick up.[/quote]
+1

Looking at the OP's original question 'Wal bass are they really worth the premium?' is interesting.. To me it implies that there is a premium added to the cost of buying a Wal just because of the brand/name, which is a fair question. But having thought about it, I personally don't think that's the case at all.

To work out how a Wal bass is priced you would have to take into account the cost of the build materials, the considerable labour involved in making each bass, the general overheads of running a small company with a limited production run each year and of course, whatever it actually cost to buy the 'Wal' name and set up again from scratch as Paul Herman has recently done.. Given all of those factors I would say that, on balance, I don't think there's a 'premium' involved.

Unlike larger companies like Fender, Warwick, Yamaha for example, Wal can only make a small number of basses each month so their income levels are obviously restricted by the quantity they produce. And in order to stay true to the original vision of the company and the expectations of their customers, they can't simply up their production numbers to bring prices down.

After that, it's simply down to what a customer is prepared to pay, isn't it? As someone's already said, there's a big difference between the 'price' and the 'value' of something. For me, the price of any bass that I want to buy isn't what determines whether I'll buy it or not; it's the value I place upon it that drives me to buy it. And whilst upwards of £3200 is a lot of money to me and probably most people on here, to someone who can afford it, it's probably not going to seem like a lot of money to them in order to buy the bass they want!

[OutToPlayJazz]

As usual, it's horses for courses. I've played a couple of Wals & they're really nice basses. Not my personal cup of tea, but very well crafted and thought out instruments with a massive range of tonal variance. Their relative scarcity will guarantee the prices stay very high & the overall effect is not unlike Status in terms of quality and exclusivity.

Yes, we can all make do with a Fender or a MusicMan or whatever mass produced bass, but something special from one of these low volume makers is a very nice thing to have & it's always nice to play a higher tier instrument.

As for the starting price of £3200, yes it's on the high side for most of us, but if you really want a Wal above all else and want to be part of that exclusive 'club', then it's worth whatever price tag they put on it at the end of the day.

[LukeFRC]

my advice to the OP would be to go to as many shops as he can and go crazy and try everything. if he finds something he likes and is an upgrade buy it. Or come on here and see whats going secondhand. However if it was me I'm not sure i would go and spend so much so soon into starting playing again. Buy a 'better' bass, play more, practice more, and then after a while your decision (if you still make it) to get a WAL will be based on actually wanting it as a tool rather than a pretty thing. Also in the mean time you will get a highter chance of picking up a bargin

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='675490' date='Dec 6 2009, 10:34 AM']my advice to the OP would be to go to as many shops as he can and go crazy and try everything. if he finds something he likes and is an upgrade buy it. Or come on here and see whats going secondhand. However if it was me I'm not sure i would go and spend so much so soon into starting playing again. Buy a 'better' bass, play more, practice more, and then after a while your decision (if you still make it) to get a WAL will be based on actually wanting it as a tool rather than a pretty thing. Also in the mean time you will get a highter chance of picking up a bargin[/quote]
+1

[4000]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='675471' date='Dec 6 2009, 10:05 AM']After that, it's simply down to what a customer is prepared to pay, isn't it? As someone's already said, there's a big difference between the 'price' and the 'value' of something. For me, the price of any bass that I want to buy isn't what determines whether I'll buy it or not; it's the value I place upon it that drives me to buy it. And whilst upwards of £3200 is a lot of money to me and probably most people on here, to someone who can afford it, it's probably not going to seem like a lot of money to them in order to buy the bass they want![/quote]

+1

[12stringbassist]

I had one years ago (A Pro 1e) and sold it after a while because I couldn't get a dirty
sound out of it, no matter what I did with it. It wasn't the bass for me, even though it
was beautifully set up with gorgeous low action. A joy to play, but timid sounding. It was
a single pickup model - a twin pickup Wal bass may have been what I needed, but I never
ran into one.

The only way to find out if ANY bass is the one for you is to try it through your own amps
and give it a good sesh to see if it ticks the boxes for you.

As to whether it is worth top dollar - that depends on your attitude to the amount of money
that someone wants for one. The right bass is the right bass. The most I've ever paid for a bass
is £2000 for a Warwick.

Good luck.

Edited December 6, 2009 by 12stringbassist

[thisnameistaken]

I do love the old Mk1 shape. I think I'd want a pickguard if I was having one built actually.

[deaners70]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='675471' date='Dec 6 2009, 05:05 AM']+1

Looking at the OP's original question 'Wal bass are they really worth the premium?' is interesting.. To me it implies that there is a premium added to the cost of buying a Wal just because of the brand/name, which is a fair question. But having thought about it, I personally don't think that's the case at all.

To work out how a Wal bass is priced you would have to take into account the cost of the build materials, the considerable labour involved in making each bass, the general overheads of running a small company with a limited production run each year and of course, whatever it actually cost to buy the 'Wal' name and set up again from scratch as Paul Herman has recently done.. Given all of those factors I would say that, on balance, I don't think there's a 'premium' involved.

Unlike larger companies like Fender, Warwick, Yamaha for example, Wal can only make a small number of basses each month so their income levels are obviously restricted by the quantity they produce. And in order to stay true to the original vision of the company and the expectations of their customers, they can't simply up their production numbers to bring prices down.

After that, it's simply down to what a customer is prepared to pay, isn't it? As someone's already said, there's a big difference between the 'price' and the 'value' of something. For me, the price of any bass that I want to buy isn't what determines whether I'll buy it or not; it's the value I place upon it that drives me to buy it. And whilst upwards of £3200 is a lot of money to me and probably most people on here, to someone who can afford it, it's probably not going to seem like a lot of money to them in order to buy the bass they want![/quote]

+1 very well put and i agree!


I think mine is worth every penny, and would love to own a new Wal. Especially being in a Tool Tribute i wouldnt play anything else but


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtM-rKr-ueI"]Tool-Vicarious cover on the MKII[/url]

[jmesa]

[quote name='deaners70' post='720444' date='Jan 21 2010, 07:39 PM'][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtM-rKr-ueI"]Tool-Vicarious cover on the MKII[/url][/quote]

That's a nice sound. Makes me want a Wal again.

[blind pilot]

still havent found a wal, but still want one!

missed out on one on the bay a few weeks back, went for £3100.00 crazy!

anyhow, was bored by the way my nez looked so given it a make-over:

it was like this: [attachment=52542:sr300.jpg]

after a bit of sanding : [attachment=52543:27857_45...135424_n.jpg]

finshed :[attachment=52544:36984_46...043190_n.jpg]

Wonder what was my inspiration

[mart]

There are currently three Wals on Craigslist, from £900 to £2600. I have no connection with any of the sellers, but if you want a Wal ....
[url="http://london.craigslist.co.uk/search/msg?query=wal"]http://london.craigslist.co.uk/search/msg?query=wal[/url]

[fatback]

I played a passive Wal Pro for years in the 90s. Beautifully made instrument, but
/ducks and dons tin hat/
I never really liked it. Maybe the neck was too clunky for me after a Jazz. It was heavy too.

Lovely sound though, and recorded wonderfully.

A personal thing, a bass, innit?

[JTUK]

Never like them either.

Too heavy and the build is ok to better-than-average on the ones I have played.
I think when they first came out they did well with the sound and were a step on all round at that time.
That was a long time ago though...pre Warwick, who then came along and knocked them off their perch, IMO.

The look is an aquired taste but also doesn't do it for me. I could get past that if the rest of the package was upto it...but I think the money they seem to get in some instances makes no sense whatsoever to me.

So..that would be a NO, then, IMHO.

[chris_b]

Wal's aren't expensive when you compare them with many basses on sale these days, eg Ritter, Fodera, Alembic, Carl Thompson, Roscoe, MTD, GUS and any good quality double bass.

In my experience they have a great live sound and on record they are one of the best. They rarely come up for sale, which helps to keep the prices high, and I wonder how Paul Herman’s new Wal venture will affect that! The early JG basses had a switch on the pickups which flipped them between series and parallel, which I'd like to see back, but apart from that I think they are a well thought out, well designed and well made instrument. I just wish I'd kept the second one I had and sold about 10 years ago!

[Rich]

[quote name='noelk27' post='674532' date='Dec 4 2009, 10:59 PM']As my preference is for a bass with two pickups, early 80s I was using a Wal (unfortunately can't recall the model - two pickups, front-mounted control plate with battery compartment, five pots and selector switch -[/quote]
That'd be a Pro 2-E, like mine

[dub]

I owned a Wal in the 80's and loved it at the time.

I sold it to buy a 70s musicman because I was playing funk and the musicman tone did it for me, that got traded for G+L then a 5 string Musicman. You can see a pattern developing... no regrets though, I didn't have the money to keep all of these instruments as I was surviving on gig money.
Out of these basses the Wal was miles ahead in construction quality and design but I still prefer the tone of my musicman. It really depends what you are after.

If you like the tone of the Wal above all others then that's the one to go for.

[witterth]

Allways wanted one but never in the right place at the right time.
I read somewhere Mark King Bought his first JD because a wal was out of his price range at the time BTW.
he has one now.
lovely Bit of kit....anyone who wants to trade a wal for a 2003 stingray?

Edited June 19, 2010 by witterth