Have you ever been in a band with someone you don't really like?

[Jam]

[quote name='JTUK' post='677366' date='Dec 8 2009, 12:45 AM']I honestly can't recall the last a***hole ( IMO ) I played with.[/quote]

I can't be the only person who sniggered at that.


The people in my band are great, the drummer left when I said I was going to Japan for a year, he's 17 and he wants to "make it big" so he doesn't want to wait. My best mate's been learning drums for a while, he jumped right in and he fit in better than the old drummer! The singer's also an old friend, he has wailing power metal tendencies now and then but he's a good sort and he does as he's told from time to time! It was the first time I'd met the guitarist, he's very quiet, but he's an amazing player and now I think he's used to me he's a lot more relaxed, lovely bloke.

TL:DR, if anyone in my band was a d*ck I wouldn't hang around.

[maxrossell]

I'm quite hard to get on with, so I'm always surprised at how long people agree to be in bands with me for. I on the other hand don't suffer fools (or at least the people I reckon are fools) so I tend to either walk or sack depending on the situation. I'm a lead-singer/guitar-player so tend to front bands and treat them as "my" band. On the couple of occasions where I've been hired in to front an existing band it's not gone well, because those bands were put together by someone else who saw them as "his" band, which inevitably led to ego-clashing, both musically and personally.

Note that there's always a difference between people you don't get on with musically and people you don't get on with personally - not that they don't overlap. When hiring people I always make it very clear that whereas I have absolutely nothing against technical playing and in fact insist on it where it's necessary, on the other hand if the song requires them to play an open E on the first and third beat for four minutes, that's what I expect them to do, and I expect them to do it well. Not that we have songs like that but you see what I mean. I find that if people can't handle serving a song without feeling the need to stick in their little "look at me moment", we won't get on musically. The trouble I find with any musician is that when someone has taken the trouble to get really good technically they tend to want to show off about it, and almost forget that the whole point of playing an instrument is to perform good music. It's really hard to find people who understand that the reason for improving your technique is to add another dimension to your playing, not to turn it into some sort of carnival side-show.

Personalities are always trickier though, because there are so many degrees of getting along with people. It's rare to encounter someone who's such a douchebag that you can't stand to be in the same room with them, but you do get people whose little personality quirks can add up to a massive headache whenever you hang out with them. An ex-drummer of mine had such a massive inferiority complex that he was convinced we were going to sack him and kept going on about it, so we eventually sacked him just to get him to shut up. I think generally if you start to think that someone needs sacking, that'll end up being the case. If they can't play well enough to keep up with the band, they just have to go because you can't afford to wait around until they figure it out, and if you think that their personality is causing a problem then they have to go because if they stay it might get worse and end up ruining the whole band.

I'm not any kind of authority though. My last bass player was a good musician, but unreliable and selfish and thoughtless and had already quit once and been a total dick about it, and yet I ended up rehiring him just because we needed a bass player. He then quit again a few weeks later, which ultimately led the drummer to leave. I saw it coming even before we rehired him, but I did it anyway because I was trying to be optimistic, and it cost me a drummer I love to play with and have been working with for over five years. Don't bother being optimistic. People don't start acting differently just because you hope they will, and usually if you give them enough slack they'll use it to f*ck you over.

[chris_b]

If you quit every time someone did something you didn't like then you'd never play! What is the point of the band? If you just want a bunch of mates, ok, but if you want to make music then, can they play? I've been in bands with some awful people but they were fantastic musicians. Surely that's the point of a band?

[maxrossell]

[quote name='chris_b' post='677501' date='Dec 8 2009, 08:46 AM']If you quit every time someone did something you didn't like then you'd never play! What is the point of the band? If you just want a bunch of mates, ok, but if you want to make music then, can they play? I've been in bands with some awful people but they were fantastic musicians. Surely that's the point of a band?[/quote]

Well, that depends. I've been in bands with people who didn't care if the other guys were Nazi child-rapists as long as they could play well. Most of the guys I've been in bands with, however, did it mainly as part of their leisure activities, as other people play golf or tennis. If you're going to spend your leisure time doing something, I reckon most people would rather do it with people they get on well with.

[BigRedX]

I think it all depends on why you play in a band. I think if a significant proportion of my income was derived from a band I was in, then my tolerance of other band member's attitudes and behaviour would be much higher.

However if you're just doing it for fun then there's little reason to put up with idiots, no matter how good they are as musicians.

[Bilbo]

I think it all depends on the circumstances. As a jazzer, I am not actually 'in' most of the bands I play with so, if I am booked alongside a musician who I don't 'like' personally, I only have to behave for one evening. In truth, there are very few people who I can't get along with on a civilised level but, then again, in these circles you are generally playing with intelligent people who are interested in the music and are sufficiently humble to know that we all have a lot to learn and a long way to go before we can start badmouthing/looking down on other players. I know I am generalising but, in jazz, you don't get the arrogance that you sometimes see in some popular music genres.

We could all use a little humility (I have more than most....)

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='677599' date='Dec 8 2009, 10:16 AM']I think it all depends on the circumstances. As a jazzer, I am not actually 'in' most of the bands I play with so, if I am booked alongside a musician who I don't 'like' personally, I only have to behave for one evening. In truth, there are very few people who I can't get along with on a civilised level but, then again, in these circles you are generally playing with intelligent people who are interested in the music and are sufficiently humble to know that we all have a lot to learn and a long way to go before we can start badmouthing/looking down on other players. I know I am generalising but, in jazz, you don't get the arrogance that you sometimes see in some popular music genres.

We could all use a little humility (I have more than most....)[/quote]
Is pretty much my situation...

But I'm more humble than you are

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='The Funk' post='677215' date='Dec 7 2009, 09:13 PM']For now, just try to work with him. As you get better, you'll be able to draw from a larger pool of musicians. That's the time to take your bass off mid-gig and whack him in the balls. Until then, keep your cool.[/quote]

That's pretty much what me and the bass player have decided. We'll keep him on until we can find some real musicians then get rid of him. Make sure he doesn't write too many of the songs lol.

Everyone who is saying i shouldn't bother playing with people i don't like. Well obv i'd like to but it's very easy to say that if you live somewhere where finding musicians is no problem. But sadly we live, as i've said, in the middle of nowhere basically and no-one is interested in being in our band whatsoever.

[maxrossell]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='677645' date='Dec 8 2009, 11:05 AM']That's pretty much what me and the bass player have decided. We'll keep him on until we can find some real musicians then get rid of him. Make sure he doesn't write too many of the songs lol.

Everyone who is saying i shouldn't bother playing with people i don't like. Well obv i'd like to but it's very easy to say that if you live somewhere where finding musicians is no problem. But sadly we live, as i've said, in the middle of nowhere basically and no-one is interested in being in our band whatsoever.[/quote]

Sure dude, we appreciate that, but without wanting to come across all older-brother, you're only eighteen. I remember back when I was eighteen, I also lived in a place where good musicians were rarer than unicorn sh*t and no-one was interested in being in my band, and back then it did seem like a massive deal, but within a couple of years I had moved away and had two phonebooks full of local musicians' numbers.

Right now it doesn't really matter if you don't have a full line-up. What matters is that you have a good time doing music, and you definitely don't want to be p*ssing about with unnecessary band politics like having to keep someone happy until you can safely boot them. If he's being a pain in the arse, tell him to shove off and just do your own thing until you're in a better position to hire people. Seriously, guitar players are ten a penny in most places.

[drewie]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='677560' date='Dec 8 2009, 09:44 AM']I think it all depends on why you play in a band. I think if a significant proportion of my income was derived from a band I was in, then my tolerance of other band member's attitudes and behaviour would be much higher.

However if you're just doing it for fun then there's little reason to put up with idiots, no matter how good they are as musicians.[/quote]

+1

I remember an originals band I was in where the singer was a real prima donna. Over time we all grew to loathe him. He always thought he was right, and no one else's opinion was valid. He often had tantrums if he didn't get his way, shouting at venue staff including the sound guy. The works. When we finally had enough we sacked him during a rehearsal - he then spent an hour saying how great he was and that we were all going to regret it etc etc. The cheeky git even asked me for a lift home (we were right next to a train station).

We never heard from him, or of him again. He disappeared entirely from the local scene. Maybe nobody else could stomach him either...

Edited December 8, 2009 by drewie

[chris_b]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='677560' date='Dec 8 2009, 09:44 AM']....I think it all depends on why you play in a band. I think if a significant proportion of my income was derived from a band I was in, then my tolerance of other band member's attitudes and behaviour would be much higher....[/quote]
+1
Also, I guess I generally play with "older", experienced musicians who have a more mature attitude and outlook. We all know why we are there and what we need to do. I haven't seen a tantrum in decades!!

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='chris_b' post='677851' date='Dec 8 2009, 01:32 PM']...I guess I generally play with "older", experienced musicians who have a more mature attitude and outlook.[/quote]
Sadly, older is no guarantee of maturity. Most of the knobs I've dealt with recently are middle-aged - like me. The young 'uns, by contrast, have been a pleasure to work with. One's mileage may vary, I s'pose.

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='677645' date='Dec 8 2009, 11:05 AM']...it's very easy to say that if you live somewhere where finding musicians is no problem.[/quote]
That's a problem I'm facing. There's a goodly clump of musos down in Oxford or up in Brum. But out here in the white space there's a limited pool, which is maybe why the other guys are reluctant to unload our incompetent fantasist. It's not that he's particularly detestable - just bastard irritating, whiny and can't play

If the Gods of Old Bloke Pub-Rock are listening - I'm perfectly happy to travel...

Edited December 8, 2009 by skankdelvar

[thumperbob 2002]

I dont think you you should join or be in a band with people you dont like- It`ll end in tears. But if your living depended upon it thats different.

But what if you liked everyone in the band and then started gigging all the time- say 28 nights per month ( happened to me )- just the way someone eats a Mars Bar will get you so wound up over a period that you`ll want to get Mediaeval on their Ass!!

Doesnt make for good friends ( anymore )

Bob

[Les]

[quote name='Rowbee' post='677410' date='Dec 8 2009, 12:55 AM']I have genuine love for the people in my bands but I've known most of them a long time, I guess I must be lucky. [/quote]


Fortunately that's the same situation for me. I do however occasionaly have the urge to tear the guitard's heart out and eat it in front of him whilst watching the light go out in his eyes. BUT I've known him for ever and, apart from when he provokes these urges by his gitleeness, love him to bits.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='maxrossell' post='677708' date='Dec 8 2009, 11:36 AM']Sure dude, we appreciate that, but without wanting to come across all older-brother, you're only eighteen. I remember back when I was eighteen, I also lived in a place where good musicians were rarer than unicorn sh*t and no-one was interested in being in my band, and back then it did seem like a massive deal, but within a couple of years I had moved away and had two phonebooks full of local musicians' numbers.

Right now it doesn't really matter if you don't have a full line-up. What matters is that you have a good time doing music, and you definitely don't want to be p*ssing about with unnecessary band politics like having to keep someone happy until you can safely boot them. If he's being a pain in the arse, tell him to shove off and just do your own thing until you're in a better position to hire people. Seriously, guitar players are ten a penny in most places.[/quote]

I guess you might be right. Well next year with a bit of luck i should hopefully be off to the north west to study so there should be a hell of a lot more musos out west than over here. I might ask the bass player what he thinks. Its just that we wanted to actually do something rather than be stuck at my house practcing all ' time.

Also skank that sounds a lot like my guitar player, he does all this widdling and twiddling but he can barely get the basics of timing and doing hammer ons and pull offs correctly. He spends little time trying to practice to actually make his sound tighter he just constantly wants to learn new sh*t. Although he's not 40 odd forturnately, but i can imagine him being not much different when he is.

Edited December 8, 2009 by EdwardHimself

[Jambo63]

[quote name='TheButler' post='677399' date='Dec 8 2009, 12:34 AM']I've never been in a band with people i don't like or get on with. I don't see why you'd want to be there in the first place if you really don't like someone..[/quote]


Sometimes the band initially comes together really well and everyone gets on, then as the band improves/progresses (read playing bigger and better gigs) you start to see differences appearing as band members' reveal their true colours.

For me, over time, it was our drummer, bigger ego than a guitarist, and he wouldn't be told what he should be doing (loved his cymbals but couldn't produce a consistant groove for blues/RnB/rock) left me to do all the donkey work. Band eventually split not surprisingly, bad feeling all round.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Jambo63

[baboom]

Man, anyone having problems along these lines will get a laugh (and maybe even some tips) out of reading [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bandalism-Not-Destroy-Your-Group/dp/0946719969"]Bandalism[/url].

It has a multichoice test in it to determine you and your bandmates' "type" - I thought they were going to be rubbish as most "self tests" are but it ended up being a very amusing hour in borders - couldn't put it down.

It is quite tongue in cheek though - one of the questions was something like (although I have totally messed it up)

What do you like to do on a saturday morning before a gig?

a. destroy stuff down in the workshop (drummer)
b. post bills for the gig, frantically debate finer points of the lyrics and spend the afternoon rearranging them (lead singer)
c. post bills for the gig, frantically debate finer points of the riffs, and spend the afternoon practicing them (g*tard)
d. go shopping with your girlfriend and enjoy a nice relaxing coffee (bass)

(Apologies for providing amplification to a stereotype that can be dispelled by one look at the BC'ers video thread!).

Cheers
T

[Dubs]

[quote]Have you ever been in a band with someone you don't really like?[/quote]

Once, and that band imploded and reformed -1 member (the one we didn't like ). Bottom line is that it wasn't good and didn't last.

[maxrossell]

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='677856' date='Dec 8 2009, 01:35 PM']Sadly, older is no guarantee of maturity. Most of the knobs I've dealt with recently are middle-aged - like me. The young 'uns, by contrast, have been a pleasure to work with. One's mileage may vary, I s'pose.[/quote]

I find that being a musical d*ck isn't age-specific. I think if you're a musical d*ck you tend to stay one, it just changes over time from "I know better than you because I'm so amazingly awesome" to "I know better than you because I've been around the block a few times, Sonny Jim". I've met more young musicians that I can count who reckoned they were literally the best at everything, even when faced with irrefutable evidence that this was anything but the case - but on the other hand, there's nothing worse than playing music with "arrogant dad" types, who always think they're going to give you a good schooling on [i]how it's done[/i], even if you've been a working musician for ten years and they've been noodling in their garden shed for six months.

Older guys do tend to have better gear though.

[maxrossell]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='677948' date='Dec 8 2009, 02:31 PM']I guess you might be right. Well next year with a bit of luck i should hopefully be off to the north west to study so there should be a hell of a lot more musos out west than over here. I might ask the bass player what he thinks. Its just that we wanted to actually do something rather than be stuck at my house practcing all ' time.[/quote]

I'm in the North West, and although it's not always easy to find good musicians to work with, there are quite a few to get going with. Again, I'd say that "doing something" is all well and good, but you may find that doing a few gigs here and there isn't necessarily that much more fun than jamming in your house, especially if you're gigging with people you don't get on with. I guess what I'm saying is take your time, don't feel you have to rush it. Having regular jams can be really great fun if you don't treat it as preparation for something else. Get a few beers in, smoke up, spin some records and just enjoy making music with friends. Who cares if you don't even have a guitarist? There are some great bands out there who do just fine without guitards.

[Kiwi]

I've discovered over the years that I find it very difficult to work with people who don't have much experience in collaboration.

Last example was the percussionist in my band who basically treated the band as his business of which he was the boss. By default he treated us like employees which lead to all sorts of personal tensions building up which then developed into cliques and eventually a subtle form of alienation. the ironic thing was that he probably had the best of intentions for everyone but the project became too much of his personal mission.

I've heard its common with bands though. The big regret I have is that it started off as a group of friends wanting to share something and ended up as a business with a demanding and overly commercial approach which people were given the stark choice of either opting in or out of.

[The Funk]

That's always a difficult one, CK - a band changing from one thing to another in an attempt to "get more serious". And the line between bandleader and dictator can be a fine one to tread! It obviously helps if everyone's happy for that one person to organise/run things.

[Kiwi]

There are issues of trust as well. The trust has to be earned from everyone in the band, not just a favoured few who are percieved to be the power base. The consequence is that people start projecting their fears onto a situation given no evidence to the contrary (and god knows I've seen that happen in other situations as well). No substitute for working in an open and transparent way, these days.

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='Jambo63' post='678315' date='Dec 8 2009, 07:05 PM']Sometimes the band initially comes together really well and everyone gets on, then as the band improves/progresses (read playing bigger and better gigs) you start to see differences appearing as band members' reveal their true colours.[/quote]

That's really what happened here. I thought he was a pretty nice guy at first and i suppose he's okay but there's just something about him i really don't like that i only realised after about a year of being "with him" for want of a less bad phrase. I guess i just get pissed off about his easy going don't care attitude to everything, probably because i'm pretty stuck up and paranoid most of the time.


[quote name='maxrossell' post='678723' date='Dec 9 2009, 05:22 AM']I'm in the North West, and although it's not always easy to find good musicians to work with, there are quite a few to get going with. Again, I'd say that "doing something" is all well and good, but you may find that doing a few gigs here and there isn't necessarily that much more fun than jamming in your house, especially if you're gigging with people you don't get on with. I guess what I'm saying is take your time, don't feel you have to rush it. Having regular jams can be really great fun if you don't treat it as preparation for something else. Get a few beers in, smoke up, spin some records and just enjoy making music with friends. Who cares if you don't even have a guitarist? There are some great bands out there who do just fine without guitards.[/quote]

Yeah perhaps, to be honest i was trying out my guitar amp through the bass speaker with my bass last night, see if we even need a guitar player. The thing i would say about what you said before is that i'm always being told to wait. The fact that i have to wait for everything, wait to be in a half decent band, wait to have sex, wait another year before i can do university etc... all of my friends are living their best years whilst i sit here doing crappy a levels and watching the most boring daytime tv shows, with woe and depression stabbing me like a knife up my arse. What the hell does it even matter? I suppose it's not long until i'm some incontinent old man anyway.

[thunderbird13]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' post='678927' date='Dec 9 2009, 11:36 AM']with woe and depression stabbing me like a knife up my arse.[/quote]

Great quote - reminds me of the times I had piles