munkonthehill Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 so heres the question, why do guitarists turn up their amps to the point of drowning out everyone else, is there something in the rule book about this. we set our gear up, usually do blackcat moan to get our levels, all is well. then during song number one i start noticing im not cutting through the mix,,,,thats strange i say to myself!! so i turn myself up,,,,song number 5 roles round and again im not cutting through the mix!!!!!!!!!!!!! i turn myself up a bit more and low and behold we now cant hear the bass drum. is it just me or is this the whole world over??????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 time for a band chat methinks. i've always thought it's a good band exercise to play as quietly as possible now and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted December 7, 2009 Share Posted December 7, 2009 I think you need to talk about levels. I haven't had this in my last few bands but when I was playing more straight rock stuff it was a common problem. Guitar tube amps sound great when they are cranked but not to the point that the band is too loud. It's about finding that balance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Always hate to see a marshal and 4x12... as you just know, don't you? Thankfully most I play with have little custom tube amps that they over-drive to hell, but guitars just will not get work if they drown out the keys or the horn who tends to be the booker anyway.. Also, we mic up for sound, not volume and the point is power not sheer wattage, IME. ...give hinm a dynamics lesson or give him a few tunes in horn keys.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etienne Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I'm disappointed I must say... thought this thread was going to be about the most effective method of wrestling a skinny-stringer to the floor... Might actually be useful in this kind of situation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar South Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 When I'm in that situation I just kill all treble and bass on my EQ and max mids out. It's not the perfect tone (ideally you want a tiny bit of bass and treble mixed in ) but it'll cut through without overpowering everything with volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxrossell Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Have a word with the guitard, and explain to him why he's having trouble hearing his amp. If he's turning it up gradually through the set then he's probably just getting short-term deafness from the sound levels. Advise him to get some earplugs. You could also teach him a couple of things about changing his EQ to get more presence without more volume, and maybe even basic stuff like standing in a different place on stage if his speaker is directional (closed 4x12s tend to be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 The good guitarists don't do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 We rehearse at full-on gig volume (which I think is pretty bloody stupid, but that's another story). At our rehearsal last week, my guitarsehole turns up late and plonks his 212 open-backed combo right next to me, then goes and stands out front of the band by the PA cabs so that he can "hear the sound" - like he's our MD or something. He's now as far from his own cab as he can get, so it's obviously not loud enough. So he turns it up way high. His cab is now deafening both me and the drummer (!) and I can't hear my own cab, a Barefaced Midget which I know to be [b][i]bloody [/i][/b]loud. I'm singing the next song, so I quickly move my mic-stand to the other side of the drummer to get away from his 212. I can now hear my own bass cab better than when I was standing in front of it. At this point the guitarsehole (who is standing right by the PA cabs, remember) announces that my singing is too loud so he's going to turn down the PA. Cue mayhem. We need a hero: [attachment=37882:Sir_Guitaralot.jpg] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peted Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I like my ER20 ear plugs as they seem to be most effective at cutting down the guitars and letting through a bit of bass I'll refuse to turn my bass up very far on my amp. If the guitarist can't hear me then they'll just have to turn down to compensate, I can hear myself fine through my earplugs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 [quote name='Adrenochrome' post='677467' date='Dec 8 2009, 08:09 AM']The good guitarists don't do it [/quote] Very true! An old guitarist of ours thought it was the done thing to crank a Marshall up as loud as it would go, even though his playing was terrible and he had the mushiest guitar tone i've ever heard We sacked him for a multitude of reasons, but they were all summarised by one thing - p1ss-poor guitarist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I was hoping this might be a "how-to" thread. I was expecting some contribution from Mr Foxen and Joe Garcia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 [quote name='Etienne' post='677415' date='Dec 8 2009, 01:05 AM']I'm disappointed I must say... thought this thread was going to be about the most effective method of wrestling a skinny-stringer to the floor...[/quote] Same here. I was going to suggest a pool cue across the knees & then CS gas (or chloroform if you're old fashioned like me). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Taser... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny-lad Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 What's the best way to make a guitarist turn down? Give him some sheet music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I/we were having this problem. With "Fever", the rythm guitarist insisted on playing all the chords, loudly, when the song is basically vocals, bass and some drums. The way we managed to get him to put the guitar down was to put him in charge of organising the figer-clicks from himself and the lead guitarist. We'll need to have a similar discsussion about Stand by me and That's not my name (Ting Tings). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRev Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I'm currently having the same problem with harmonica players.... It's always someone, innit? Generally, it's usually a case of people having the wrong amp/cab setup for the gig. Marshall 4x12s, Fender twins and Fender Bassmans (like the aforementioned harp player's ) were designed to be used in places like the Albert hall without a PA - the result is that you can't turn the buggers up byond 2 without deafening everyone but below 2, they aren't really getting into their stride and sound a bit pants. Most of the seasoned guitards on my local scene use teeny little 30w valve amps as backline which is more than enough for a pub gig. Anyone turning up with huge cabs/amps usually gets the piss ripped out of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzgroove Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 A talk about volume is on the cards, if he won't listen then a talk about another guitarist is in order. I don't know if this guy is maybe one of your mates, if so it can be a bit more awkward to bring stuff like that up. Best of luck with it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I've made this point before in another thread, but with the relative frequencies involved, the bass player always needs a lot of power to keep up with a relatively low powered guitar amplifier. I used to need to drive my 500w MarkBass quite hard to keep up with a guitarist using a Line 6 twin 150w! As a direct comparison, my Roland bass cube 100 copes with no problem against a 12 piece big band. Mainly because there are no screaming guitars involved. If you think about it, the lower range of the guitar crosses and intermingles with the bass frequencies. That's why you often think you can't hear yourself. That and of course the fact that guitarists are a bunch of noisemongering assholes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 I always thought if there was a volume pedal for the guitarist that one of the other band has control over would be a great idea, especially when they want to noodle at full whack during the vocal parts. Best thing to do is sack em & not replace em. Be a three piece! I cope well at low & high volume now & we have a wonderful sound with bass, mandolin & banjo. We play death metal :brow: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munkonthehill Posted December 8, 2009 Author Share Posted December 8, 2009 Our main issues are......... A: he is a good mate B: he is singer/guitarist C: very moody D: doesnt listen as ive told him on many occasion about this issue put these all together and you have eggshells hahahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Talk him into taking up a different instrument. Preferably one he can't play whilst singing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 [quote name='munkonthehill' post='678619' date='Dec 8 2009, 11:01 PM']Our main issues are......... A: he is a very poor musician who doesnt understand how to be a team player in a band B: he is a very poor musician who doesnt understand how to be a team player in a band C: he is a very poor musician who doesnt understand how to be a team player in a band D: he is a very poor musician who doesnt understand how to be a team player in a band E: he is a very poor musician who doesnt understand how to be a team player in a band[/quote] Fixed for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munkonthehill Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 unfortunatly he is a monster on guitar, I mean MONSTER. he picks up the guitar and just knows what to do, he is also a good singer and has presence. ontop of all that a love the guy like a brother. Thankfully I am in a band with my brother-in-law and a long term friend. We are all very close and im wondering if thats what makes us such a tight band!!!!!!!!!! pity he wasnt actually my biological bro, that way i could batter him hahahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 [quote name='munkonthehill' post='680823' date='Dec 10 2009, 11:33 PM']unfortunatly he is a monster on guitar, I mean MONSTER.[/quote] No he isnt. Oh he may play amazingly well and pick up new stuff very quickly, but real monsters on guitar do not need or wish to drown everyone else out. They are team players first and foremost. When you've had the pleasure of playing with a guitarist like this playing with one who doesnt get it is just not an option anymore. The fact that he drowns everyone out, doesnt understand the nature of frequency mixing the guitar bass and drums to make tones that sit well and complement each other rather than fight each other are bad enough, but worse still is he is not listening to what you are saying either. He is not a team player, and therefore not a good musician. He is only interested in his voews, his sound, his instrument etc etc. WHich means he's NOT listening to you guys. My advice, let him turn all the way up at the next rehearsal. Record it, then you play a semitone flat in the choruses. If he doesnt notice, then tell him he's useless cos he aint listening, cos he's too loud, and play him the recording to prove it. Failing that get out of the band or be his lacky forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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