BareFaced Compact and Peavey

[BassBen]

Hi Alex,

I have got a BareFaced compact, peavey firebass head I play a Ibanez SR500 bass.

I am not sure what the problem is but the E string sounds amazing A string sounds amazing but the D sting and G seem to lose volume and don’t cut though the mix. Turning up the treble doesn’t help. I never had this problem with the Trace Elliot 4x10 with horn. Maybe its the horn I am missing?

Any ideas to what I am doing wrong. I am looking to replace the head next year prob with Markbass little iii. Will that help the problem as I understand VPF controls the high end?

Cheers,

Ben

Edited December 11, 2009 by BassBen

[MythSte]

[quote name='BassBen' post='681106' date='Dec 11 2009, 11:06 AM']Hi Alex,

I have got a BareFaced compact, peavey firebass head I play a Ibanez SR500 bass.

I am not sure what the problem is but the E string sounds amazing A string sounds amazing but the D sting and G seem to lose volume and don’t cut though the mix. Turning up the treble doesn’t help. I never had this problem with the Trace Elliot 4x10 with horn. Maybe its the horn I am missing?

Any ideas to what I am wrong. I am looking to replace the head next year prob with Markbass little iii. Will that help the problem as I understand VPF controls the high end?

Cheers,

Ben[/quote]

Just to discount the possibility, when was the last time you changed your strings? And does this happen with both pickups together and or solo'd?

[BassBen]

[quote name='MythSte' post='681111' date='Dec 11 2009, 11:09 AM']Just to discount the possibility, when was the last time you changed your strings? And does this happen with both pickups together and or solo'd?[/quote]

Hi there,

I changed the strings about a month ago. As for the pickups alway have both pickups up full.

I tryed it with my Stuart Spector NS-94 and it has the same problem.

Cheers,

[Finbar]

Could be something to do with the pickup height?

[3below]

It's going to be the one variable at a time solution:

try another bass - if 3 have the same problem, unlikely to be the bass

try another amp or two with the same basses, leads and cab,

problem goes away, its the amp

problem stays
try different guitar leads with original amp, bass and cab.

problem stays
try different speaker cables, same bass amp, cab, guitar lead

problem stays
try different cabs, original bass, amp and leads

problem stays
try different bassist (have to eliminate all possibilities - unlikely as it is)

problem stays
I give up... unless you can think of anything else to change

does the problem happen if you play above D & G on the E/A strings, this might help identify a frequency problem against a pickup / string problem

Apologies if you have gone down this road already, hope you get a solution

Edited December 11, 2009 by 3below

[Stewart]

I'm not actually familiar with any of those specific items, but both the bass and the amp have some form of EQ right?

...

[3below]

Following on from Stewart and currently having a Peavey Firebass with Big One, have you tried adjusting the contour control - seems unlikely but it might be a possible cause.

[alexclaber]

Hi Ben,

You're not the first and you certainly won't be the last to have this 'problem' when switching to a Compact. What's happening is that the Compact is cleaner throughout its range, smoother in the mids and a bit deeper in the lows than your old 4x10". The cleaness of the sound is the biggest difference, because the higher harmonic distortion of the 4x10" adds a load of extra midrange which adds punch and growl to your sound.

So what's the solution? You need to get that punch and growl happening with your bass and amp.

Many bassists think that the neck pickup gives the most bassy sound, the bridge pickup the most midrangey/trebley sound and thus if you have both pickups on you gets lows, mids and highs in equal quantities, because it's an average of the two sounds. However, that's not actually what happens. Because the pickups are in different locations there is a phase difference between the two signals, and so instead of getting simple addition of the sounds you get a mix of addition and subtraction. The subtraction happens in the critical midrange area and the further apart the pickups are, the bigger the midrange cut tends to be.

So if you want a nice fat grunty sound with plenty of mids, especially lower mids, use the front pickup soloed. If you want a growly aggressive biting and more compressed sound use the back pickup soloed. If you want a mellower sweet round sound that sits back in the mix then use both pickups up full. And then as you roll back the volume on either pickup the midrange scoop will decrease until the sound eventually gets back to the sound of the soloed pickup.

That's the first step in getting the right sound out of your bass. You can then mess with that with EQ but bear in mind that EQ will shape the sound but it won't fundamentally change the character of the sound unless you do something drastic. One of the perils of active basses is that many bassists add far too much bass boost when they'd be better served by leaving the lows flat and simply turning their amp up. That gives you more fatness and bottom whilst also maintaining your midrange punch. Same with amp EQ - go easy, and turn that contour control right off. The perfect sound at home is never the perfect sound in the band - the perfect sound in the band needs way more midrange and top because they get masked by the sound of the other musicians whilst the lows have their own space so sound louder as there are no sustained sounds competing with them.

If this doesn't give you back that D and G string punch then you need to adjust your pickup heights. The best way to do this is to set your EQ flat on bass and amp, turn the neck pickup off and then raise the bridge pickup and balance the heights until notes both across and up and down the neck are equally loud. If the notes warble as you go higher on the low strings then lower the pickup until that stops happening. Then solo the neck pickup and raise it until the notes are as loud as with the bridge pickup soloed. If you find the strings start hitting the neck pickup then lower it and bring the bridge pickup down to match. It does take a fair while to do this right. Also bear in mind that as you turn up your amp your low strings will sound louder due to the human ear's deficiencies so when tweaking your pickups errr towards having high notes and strings louder. Take a suitable screwdriver to rehearsals for final tweaking in the context of the band.

Let me know if that makes sense and let me know how it works for you. You'll probably find yourself using much more soloed pickup sounds and you'll notice that by getting the tone from your bass and amp rather than relying on cab colouration that when you're DI'd at gigs all the soundman has to do to get a fantastic bass tone out front is to roll off some treble to match the natural roll-off of the Compact.

Alex

[wateroftyne]

I gigged the Compact last night (I've used it a few times, but this was the first a gig volume), and had exactly the same phenomenon. The E was fat and puncy, but the D & G were almost MIA.

Mind you, I'm used to having my old cabs at ear level, and the compact was down on the deck.

I need to tweak more, I think...

[alexclaber]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='682222' date='Dec 12 2009, 03:09 PM']I gigged the Compact last night (I've used it a few times, but this was the first a gig volume), and had exactly the same phenomenon. The E was fat and puncy, but the D & G were almost MIA.

Mind you, I'm used to having my old cabs at ear level, and the compact was down on the deck.[/quote]

That makes a big difference! But also bear in mind that your HS210s have low Xmax drivers so they add a lot of harmonic distortion at relatively low levels.

Alex

[skychaserhigh]

Maybe this cab is good at some frequencies and not others ? I've had cabs like that in the past.
Is this not why the Big One has a smaller mid range driver to get those frequencies ?
This is why i have used 10's for years ( some 12's too ) , as they give more punch across the whole range.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='skychaserhigh' post='682795' date='Dec 13 2009, 09:10 AM']Maybe this cab is good at some frequencies and not others ? I've had cabs like that in the past.
Is this not why the Big One has a smaller mid range driver to get those frequencies ?
This is why i have used 10's for years ( some 12's too ) , as they give more punch across the whole range.[/quote]

[Takes Cover]

If you think a bunch of distortion is good (which it is, because distortion is Doom) then maybe the BF cabs are not as 'good'. Everyone secretly loves distortion, even if they can't admit it. If you love Doom so much, you should even have a G string, and the only D you should have is below bottom E.

The Big One uses a different driver to the Compact, it is a sub driver that is better in the lows but deficient in the highs, hence the second speaker.

[sk8]

or it could be that the compact is the problem and not for you?

[Sharkfinger]

[quote name='sk8' post='682917' date='Dec 13 2009, 12:17 PM']or it could be that the compact is the problem and not for you?[/quote]

Could be but unlikely. I would strongly advise following the advice above about pickup height. What I found useful initially with the Compact is to have it tilted back with a wedge under the front of the cab, which 'aims' the cab more toward your head. These days I raise the cab up off the floor entirely with a fold-away storage crate I take with me to every gig. I have absolutely no problem hearing what I play everywhere on whatever bass I use through this cab.

[Moos3h]

[quote name='Sharkfinger' post='683039' date='Dec 13 2009, 02:46 PM']Could be but unlikely. I would strongly advise following the advice above about pickup height. What I found useful initially with the Compact is to have it tilted back with a wedge under the front of the cab, which 'aims' the cab more toward your head. These days I raise the cab up off the floor entirely with a fold-away storage crate I take with me to every gig. I have absolutely no problem hearing what I play everywhere on whatever bass I use through this cab.[/quote]

What about your audience though? If it's angled back at you, are they going to hear it?

I'm looking forward to trying the loaner when it makes its way over here, but wonder if I'd have to consider running into the PA too, if it's that directional?

Cheers,
James

[alexclaber]

[quote name='Moos3h' post='683049' date='Dec 13 2009, 03:08 PM']I'm looking forward to trying the loaner when it makes its way over here, but wonder if I'd have to consider running into the PA too, if it's that directional?[/quote]

It's noticeably less directional than a 4x10".

Alex

[BassBen]

Hi Alex,

Seems like I have sorted the problem. The bass guitar needed setting up properly the action was way out.

You have done a very good job with this cab. Sounds spot on and makes life so easy being so light.

Cheers,

[TPJ]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='683675' date='Dec 14 2009, 08:42 AM']It's noticeably less directional than a 4x10".

Alex[/quote]
+1.

Our drummer was always amazed that he could clearly hear the Compact when it was positioned almost evenly beside him.
Tilting the cab up is also a good idea.

[Sharkfinger]

[quote name='Moos3h' post='683049' date='Dec 13 2009, 03:08 PM']What about your audience though? If it's angled back at you, are they going to hear it?

I'm looking forward to trying the loaner when it makes its way over here, but wonder if I'd have to consider running into the PA too, if it's that directional?

Cheers,
James[/quote]
I guess it's because the higher frequencies are a bit more directional and perhaps come out in a kind of cone shape from the speaker and thus angling the cab puts our ear level within that cone. The audience can hear all frequencies because they are within that cone by virtue of being further away. That analogy may be completely flawed, however. I don't actually know what I'm talking about, I've just made observations about what works for me.

Any minute now, Alex or Bill F will come along and start talking about stuff like 'off axis' and 'boundry reinforecement', which quite frankly goes over my head most of the time (no pun intended).

[quote name='TPJ' post='683742' date='Dec 14 2009, 10:16 AM']+1.

Our drummer was always amazed that he could clearly hear the Compact when it was positioned almost evenly beside him.
Tilting the cab up is also a good idea.[/quote]
Bear in mind that not only is he sitting, which makes his ear level much lower. He's also probably not so bothered about hearing the detail, just the SPL, of which the Compact has in spades.