Barefaced T'Vintage Review.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Wil' post='685833' date='Dec 15 2009, 10:35 PM']Certain subjects are off limits and we all know it. I doubt a thread about the Big Beef Chief, Bassthing68 and Bass Ferret would last long, for instance (I'm not intending to stir up those hornets nests again, but I think they're good examples of the point in question).[/quote]
Thanks for that, but I'm asking Mr. bigfatbass what he meant specifically by his previous comment. I'm genuinely interested, s'all.

Apologies for the hijack, by the way.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='bigfatbass' post='685843' date='Dec 15 2009, 10:44 PM']Sorry, you obviously need it spelt out. At the Moffat bass bash there was a lot of discussion on finnbass about how the barefaced did not compare very well to the other cabs present. A lot of discussion. On Basschat, the same posters made hardly a mention. I find that odd. Why did the guys that were at Moffat feel unable to say on Basschat what they said on Finnbass? Perhaps it is because any posting off message on Bare Faced gets descended on by the white knights others have referred to? Perhaps that in itself is suppression of discussion.

I have seen one member in particular, who obviously does not rate Bare Faced, get a lot of personal abuse.[/quote]

Hey, less of the sarcasm, man. Maybe you should explain yourself better.

So you mean voluntary supression? That's fair enough. I read it as you suggesting that it was being suppressed by the powers-that-be. I just wanted to clarify that, that's all.

[Musicman20]

Evem though I'm not on finnbass I'm aware of this thread.

The bass world is small!

[Shockwave]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='685850' date='Dec 15 2009, 10:47 PM']Hey, less of the sarcasm, man. Maybe you should explain yourself better.

So you mean voluntary supression? That's fair enough. I read it as you suggesting that it was being suppressed by the powers-that-be. I just wanted to clarify that, that's all.[/quote]

Well technically its voluntary supression on parts other then the barefaced forum. Alex has been recently known to remove comments on his own forum.

I can see why people on here wouldnt want to bring up negatives about their cab on here when so many people are happy with theirs and when the creator of the cab is an active member. Hence why other forums might have more varied opinions.

Whilst i have met Alex in real life and hes a very nice chap, i do not treat his products any different then from any other manufacturer large or small. Which means a certain level of customer service, and that i have no qualms in making my feelings clear.

Then again i am usually more forgiving then most people. (Believe it or not) People who were in the loop of my problems before this review was posted praised me for being so patient, and that they would have flew off the handle ages ago!

[Apex]

To return to the OP topic...

I too had problems trying to prise a Compact out of Alex, who was clearly not wholly in control of his stock and supply chain. He did keep me informed - apologetically - but there's no doubt frustration began to build a little.

For me the weight / sound / price combination drove the decision and a gig, three gig-level rehearsals and a recording session, plus the good-natured abuse the poor thing got at the S Wales Bash have not made me regret it. It doesn't have the visual stage presence of some cabs, but if I was paid enough for this to matter I might be able to either afford something flashier or get someone to do it up for me! It certainly seems to survive in the audio arena of a 6-piece pop-rock covers band with a loud drummer and a keyboard.

I was a little concerned on the strength of the cab, and certainly wouldn't sit on it. But I have twice now found someone else sitting on it with no ill effects, so I'm probably just being over-sensitive.

Rob, you're welcome to drop round and look at the finish if you would find that helpful. I know it's not a Vintage but it is an example of bareFaced workmanship.

[Shockwave]

[quote name='Apex' post='685911' date='Dec 15 2009, 11:36 PM']Rob, you're welcome to drop round and look at the finish if you would find that helpful. I know it's not a Vintage but it is an example of bareFaced workmanship.[/quote]

I already looked at your compacts finish on Sunday with your offspring! Similarily your invited over to mine to try the vintage out!

Rob.

[Apex]

[quote name='Shockwave' post='685912' date='Dec 15 2009, 11:38 PM']I already looked at your compacts finish on Sunday with your offspring! Similarily your invited over to mine to try the vintage out!

Rob.[/quote]
Kids!

[Platypus]

[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='685611' date='Dec 15 2009, 07:42 PM']That's true. Although some things seem to escape criticism on here - Aguilar, Epifani and Bergantino spring to mind. Are they as perfect as the reviews suggest or has anyone tried and not liked?[/quote]

Maybe no criticism, though the Aguilar DB12's and GS112's are moved on all the time - one of the most often seen cabs in the For Sale forum.

[alexclaber]

[quote name='JTUK' post='685555' date='Dec 15 2009, 06:43 PM']...despite the maker being a sponsor of this site...[/quote]

I don't sponsor basschat and I was just another poster who built a DIY cab a while back. I never intended for this to be a commercial enterprise and it only happened because people wanted to buy the cabs I'd designed and built solely to fulfil my own needs!

Also, I'm a little perplexed as to why bigfatbass considers it outlandish to claim that a 2x15" stack with high thermal and excursion limited power handling and high sensitivity is as loud as an 8x10". It's not exactly a small rig and it's using very potent drivers.

Alex

[RichardH]

It has to be said that I had assumed you sponsored Basschat, Alex - after all, you [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showforum=73"]have your own forum section[/url] within the Affiliates section - a privilege that others who have had similar sections have been asked to pay for. I know your section is not just about BF cabs and you offer advice on all aspects of cabs in there, but it's fair to say that probably 80% of the posts are on that subject.

Edited December 16, 2009 by RichardH

[Wil]

Alex does pay for his section, afaik.

[RichardH]

Maybe sponsor's the wrong word. "Helps fund" Basschat might be a better way of putting it.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='RichardH' post='686105' date='Dec 16 2009, 10:02 AM']Maybe sponsor's the wrong word. "Helps fund" Basschat might be a better way of putting it.[/quote]
Or 'pays for the privilege of having a forum on Basschat', perhaps.

[JTUK]

maybe 'sponsor' isn't the exact word... but people/companies that pay for a forum do have modding rights ( AIUI ) so it isn't the same
as a normal member's donation.

I was not impressed that my inconsequential post was deleted in that forum...not realising what the deal was.. and on other forums I would have been advised.
In the grand scheme of things, it would only be about courtesy, so no pain in the end, but it would make me wary posting in that sort of forum again if I had something derogatory to say.

I too, must say, that I have seen worse things written on Finnbass and much worse things said via other forms of communcation and do indeed think that
people are being restrained...
Maybe they are being polite, or maybe, they prefer to keep things cordial on here, which is no bad thing in itself.

I do think that people should feel they should be able to post an opinion and they might expect little flack but as long as the post has merit, that is fine by me.

As it stands atm...it appears that many buyers are happy with their product, and quite a few people ( non-buyers, not surprisngly ) aren't so impressed.
A review is a review, however it pans out, but it just serves that reviewers perspective. Maybe threads like these are more useful as you get many many more opinions tacked on.

[RichardH]

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='686107' date='Dec 16 2009, 10:05 AM']Or 'pays for the privilege of having a forum on Basschat', perhaps.[/quote]
LOL - yeah, that would cover it

[Happy Jack]

I've probably posted in this thread too much already, but I am astonished at some of the criticism (explicit or implicit) that is being levelled at Alex.

Every manufacturer could be accused of "hype" at some point. I can't think of ANY other manufacturer who has actually sent his product on tour around the UK - free, [i]gratis[/i], and for nothing - to enable potential buyers to try at their leisure, with their own rig, before deciding whether or not to buy.

From my White-Knighting, criticism-suppressing point of view, I simply can't think of anything that involves LESS hype than that.

There are those who bought these cabs without taking advantage of the [i]Barefaced On Tour [/i]facility. Including me. That was our decision - we could have waited and tried the cabs out before buying.

Some of us are clearly disappointed with what we bought. sh*t happens.

I see Alex Claber as "one of us", a BassChatter, putting his money where his mouth is, and making good. I suspect that I've paid a (small) premium to support that. I consider that money well spent.

YMMV.

[wateroftyne]

+1.

Just to be clear, I don't own a BFB cab. At this time, I don't intend to, either - they'd have to go some to shift my Bergs from my grasp. BUT, I have tried two of his cabs in anger (i.e. at gigs). One did it for me (The Vintage), one wasn't to my taste (The Compact).

As I've said before, I was suprised Shockwave posted this before it was all resolved.

Airing dirty laundy in public doesn't help anyone, especially a start-up like Alex who, at this time, doesn't have a solid reputation to fall back on.

Had it not been resolved satisfactorily, by all means... flame away. But as it stands, IMO there was still time for Alex to put things right. I think he should have been given a chance.

As for the veiled criticism of how he moderates his own forum - in public, by a moderator...

Disappointing.

Edited December 16, 2009 by wateroftyne

[Merton]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='686218' date='Dec 16 2009, 12:17 PM']I've probably posted in this thread too much already, but I am astonished at some of the criticism (explicit or implicit) that is being levelled at Alex.

<snip>[/quote]
+2

[paul h]

+1 to the last two posts.

I have written long posts to this thread twice now and then thought better of it and deleted them. But to quickly summarise what I was intending to say...

All manufacturers go through quality control problems. Fender anyone? Alex is one of us. We were here when he started Barefaced. We should know what to expect. He is not pretending to be a huge multinational company with the resources that would bring. Nobody is pulling any wool over any ones eyes. If you only want to deal with companies with a long track record then don't buy from a fledgling company. Common sense.

The major thing I just cannot understand, not matter how much I rack my tiny brain is how any one could find satisfaction in hearing negative comments about Barefaced???????? You are not "sticking to the man" by airing negative views on BF. You are making an already difficult task of starting a company that much harder.

The only views that matter on Alex's cabs are the people who are using them, or have used them. If you have used them and don't like them then that is a shame, but it's hardly news worthy. Tone is subjective and there are plenty of people who don't like *insert major manufacturer here*.

I can only assume that those so vocally against Barefaced have used them regularly and indeed compared them to whatever 2000x10" legendary wardrobe sized system that seems to be popping up as a frame of reference.

I found my LMII and Aguilar GS112 combination far too harsh. I think I will go and find someone who likes them and argue about it.

Remember the OP was a thorough review of a quality control problem. I doubt very much if it was meant as a call to arms!

[longtimefred]

i have been having a good read of this thread and find it an interesting read.

I dont own a BFB cab but i do really like the look of them and what they are supposed to be able to do. I quite like the whole "home made" look about them, i think if i owned one and Alex manages to really get the company flying and his products get more advanced and get more refined in looks and finishes, i think it would be a really good thing to have an early model that could end up being a classic cabinet.

I have recently joined a second band and dragging my big Ampeg cab around can sometimes be a pain in the arse. I just thought i would say that if i were to go down the route of getting a lightweight cab to have just in case im doing a gig and need to chuck something in the car, i would definately go and have a blast through Alex's gear.

I sypathize with him about this whole situation as things seem to be getting really busy for him and i guess it was a matter of time before something got forgotten and pisses a customer off. I hope he can eventually make the jump from doing the cabs after work to doing it full time so he can make sure nothing like this happens again as it really seems he has a product that is worth all this talk!

I have seen something similar happen to a motorcycle company called Beowulf who make exhausts. One guy got pissed off with something that happened to them, posted the problem on the forum and put so so many people off buying stuff from them, even though it was such an isolated incident. I hope this doesnt happen here.

Will

[mildmanofrock]

You get out of a Barefaced Cab what you put into it.

It's a cab that mirrors your bass and amp settings. Without coloring your sound like many other cabs.

So EQ your amp until you get the sound you love.

It doesn't take much for me and my Big One: I just boost the bass and drop the mids a bit.

It will take whatever EQ you throw at it. But you're in control, not the cab.

[Wil]

[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='686262' date='Dec 16 2009, 01:05 PM']You get out of a Barefaced Cab what you put into it.

It's a cab that mirrors your bass and amp settings. Without coloring your sound like many other cabs.

So EQ your amp until you get the sound you love.

It doesn't take much for me and my Big One: I just boost the bass and drop the mids a bit.

It will take whatever EQ you throw at it. But you're in control, not the cab.[/quote]

See, this is the sort of thing that can be misleading, because it makes out that the cab will do anything you want. If you like the sound of speaker distortion and a big mid range hump then it probably wont, which I think Alex himself has said. As Rob said to me the other night in a moment of zen like wisdom, any cab basically equates to "speakers in a box", they're not magic and no matter how well designed something is, it's going to have an inherant character that may or may not float your coracle.

[mildmanofrock]

[quote name='Wil' post='686273' date='Dec 16 2009, 01:12 PM']See, this is the sort of thing that can be misleading, because it makes out that the cab will do anything you want. If you like the sound of speaker distortion and a big mid range hump then it probably wont, which I think Alex himself has said. As Rob said to me the other night in a moment of zen like wisdom, any cab basically equates to "speakers in a box", they're not magic and no matter how well designed something is, it's going to have an inherant character that may or may not float your coracle.[/quote]

Wil, I don't mean to mislead, I'm just saying what works for me.

I'd rather colour my own sound than let the cab do it for me.

Edited December 16, 2009 by mildmanofrock

[Toasted]

The cab IS "colouring your sound". Whatever that means.

[david_l_perry]

One thing that has caused a problem for my perception (and I know lots of the guys who tried out Alex's cab at the moffat bass bash) was that many people on this forum do make out that Alex's cabs are the best thing since sliced bread. Any post about 'looking for a new lightweight cab' has the response 'barefaced'....its almost the done thing

Now that's great, but balance is very important. Alex's cab had a massive amount to live upto and it simply could never have lived up to the hype no matter how good it was....

It was slammed over on finnbass. My main gripe was the build quality for what the things cost. Alex's cabs are by no way a cheap option.

Tone is not worth getting into as people like very different things.

I understand Alex is looking into new tougher coatings and hopefully sorting out a better method of construction.

T nuts falling out is not unheard of but should not happen.
Here is what I have done over the years for what its worth:-

Drill the holes to take the main body of the T nut so that the T nut is a very tight interference fit, and then G clamp the T nut into the back of the ply. They should not come out, but you have to be accurate and you also need to make sure that the ply is good quality. You then have the body of the Tnut as well as the prongs holding it all in place. The odd one may still come loose, but thats just life. I would rather have T nuts than wood screws. Most cabs do only have woodscrews which is pretty shocking but down to cost/time.

Building cabs is not a cheap thing to do, and producing small numbers will always make it impossibly to compete with the big boys if you want to make your time count for something. Its a tough balance to get right.

The build and finish is everything in my eyes. It [i]has [/i]to stack up against all of the competition if its being sold as a viable pro alternative at a pro price point.

Dave