Barefaced T'Vintage Review.

[umph]

[quote name='Prosebass' post='687191' date='Dec 17 2009, 12:03 PM']Unfortunately , (and I will take this opportunity to thank anyone who has reviewed my basses) I think reviews are pointless unless they are objective, written with a depth of understanding and from someone who has no prejudice and plenty of experience.
Musical instruments and gear are reviewed subjectively and personal likes and dislikes enter the equation. It applies especially here on basschat as there are those who wouldn't wear anything other than a Fender round their neck irrespective of whether other basses are better value, sound better or look better (in the reviewers opinion) and there lies the problem.

With regard to Alex , he has put a lot of effort into his business and is producing something different without the backing of a corporation or by getting his cabs made in China for peanuts.
I think the original gripe over his cab was satisfied amicably and how many other producers would just say " if you are not happy you can have a full refund"
It is pointless discussing this any further in this thread and this should be put to bed with any reviews of his gear going in the review forum written by people who have actually used his gear.

You can test a washing machine objectively by how clean your clothes come out of it but with instruments and gear its always going to be subjectively, so on many levels what one person says will be absolutely pointless to another , again I cite the Fender Good = Fender Bad debate.

It seems a typically British thing to knock the little guy and put down innovation, ideas and enthusiasm. Products from small producers may not be perfect (price / quality etc ) but the products come from a passion and desire to improve and innovate and with time and encouragement the products will improve and come down in price. Otherwise we may all as well just give in now and all you will be able to buy is American branded gear made in the far east by someone who doesn't give a sh*t....[/quote]
i agree very much with all of this, personally i would've never wrote a review like the o/p it'd make me feel like a complete arsemuncher, alex is starting up he needs all the support he can get not someone trying to knock him down while hes still on his learning curve!

[bumnote]

[quote name='umph' post='687274' date='Dec 17 2009, 01:12 PM']alex is starting up he needs all the support he can get not someone trying to knock him down while hes still on his learning curve![/quote]

While he is charging professional prices he should expect criticism where its due, as long as its objective.

Fair play to the bloke, he beleives in something and hes got off his arse and put his money and effort into doing something constructive.

[Toasted]

I simply don't understand why people shouldn't post negative opinions. This site is all about user reviews, and in Shockwave's opinion this cab didn't measure up. I don't see why any manufacturer should have a period of grace for their products "because they're new" - especially ones charging premium prices.

[Flanker]

Here's another 'pointless' review for you........having bought and paid for a new Compact a few months ago. I never gigged the cab but I don't think that should be necessary to get a fair idea if you would like it. Also while I accept that speakers do 'wear in' I don't think the sound would have changed enough to change my mind.

I was very impressed by the weight of the cab and disappointed by everything else.

I discussed the tone I wanted in advance but the cab was not really in the ballpark I wanted. Fair enough.

Frankly even if it had sounded great I felt the finish on the cab was amatuer and the handle looked and felt cheap - worked OK. One of the corner covers wasn't screwed flush against the cab. The look and feel of a cab is important to me as part of the package and I would have moved the cab on on the strength of that alone.

I sold it on privately and did not contact Alex. People may think I should have but I had read a defence by Alex of one of his cabs around that time and I thought he had made excuses rather than accept what the guy was saying and take it on board. That put me off as frankly I just can't be arsed and there are plenty other options to choose from.

[umph]

[quote name='bumnote' post='687292' date='Dec 17 2009, 01:28 PM']While he is charging professional prices he should expect criticism where its due, as long as its objective.

Fair play to the bloke, he beleives in something and hes got off his arse and put his money and effort into doing something constructive.[/quote]
yeah say it to the guy don't publically slate them. Thats MY opinion but whatevs.

[mildmanofrock]

[quote name='bumnote' post='687242' date='Dec 17 2009, 12:48 PM']A lot of people like BF
Some Dont
Some people appear to have an agenda almost outside is the product good or not.[/quote]

Exactly.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='umph' post='687274' date='Dec 17 2009, 01:12 PM']i agree very much with all of this, personally i would've never wrote a review like the o/p it'd make me feel like a complete arsemuncher, alex is starting up he needs all the support he can get not someone trying to knock him down while hes still on his learning curve![/quote]

Some are willing to learn. Some already know it all.

[mcgraham]

Personally, I'm glad there's some people out there who are willing to share their less-positive experiences with gear. I think Shockwave's review was honest and fair, as well as being very tempered despite the general stress the whole situation doubtless caused. Ultimately I don't appreciate reviews that are overly 'emotional' or exaggerated in either a positive or negative way, e.g. 'gushing' over how it's the best thing since sliced bread without some substance to such a claim, or 'slating' the actual company/seller where the product simply doesn't suit you, etc (not that I think either case occurred here). IMO, one of the reasons some people are getting defensive in this example is that (unlike, say, Ashdown) there is an actual 'face' and personality to which the negative review may be 'held against' in people's minds.

However, at the end of the day, I'm sure we'd all like a balanced opinion of a bit of gear if we're thinking about checking out or buying before we get to that point, otherwise we'd all just be wasting our time and money.

Mark

[bumnote]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='687349' date='Dec 17 2009, 02:26 PM']Some are willing to learn. Some already know it all.[/quote]


As some of the posts amply demonstrate

[mildmanofrock]

I try not to gush when reviewing. All I can say is what my ears tell me and make me feel. My Big One p*sses all over my Ampeg 410HLF and various other cabs I've tried over the years. I'm a grumpy sh*t, so I'd be the first to announce any negatives. But I can't find any. Which, in a way, gets on my nerves.

[6stringbassist]

I agree with some of the posts on here.

There is definitely a tendency for members of this site to 'big up' (for want of a better phrase) certain manufacturers.

Shuker basses instantly springs to mind, I've personally hated everyone that I've played, but that's just me. And if someone comes along and says something less than positive about said manufacturer then all hell breaks loose.

I think the main problem is that peoples reviews aren't totally accurate, they possibly don't try other manufacturers gear beforehand. Then they claim that 'X' is amazing and totally blows everything else out of the water, it's transparent sounding when it's not, it's loud when it's not, it's this, and it's that etc.

A few months ago I played a bass built by someone on here, it was at a bass bash. It was awful, it was like something made for a GCSE technology exam, by someone destined to fail said GCSE technology exam . But I've seen similar basses receive rave reviews on here.

I've not heard or played through one of Alex's cabs, so I won't comment on them.

I did communicate with him a few months ago about buying one, and found him to be friendly, but I found that I had to ask very direct questions about the cab and the sound of them before I got a proper answer.

I now use an Acme cab. This is 'transparent', a word that's used a lot, but I think it's appropriate here. I find this produces the sound that I was after.

Edited December 17, 2009 by 6stringbassist

[mildmanofrock]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='687539' date='Dec 17 2009, 05:35 PM']I think the main problem is that peoples reviews aren't totally accurate, they possibly don't try other manufacturers gear beforehand.[/quote]

True. But I think the main problem is sonic subjectivity. What sounds great to a rock geek like me - fat low bass with a gravel-path crunch - will sound crap to a floppy hatted funkster who's popping and slapping all over.

Edited December 18, 2009 by mildmanofrock

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='mildmanofrock' post='688049' date='Dec 18 2009, 09:30 AM']True. But I think the main problem is sonic subjectivity. What sounds great to a rock geek like me - fat low bass with a gravel-path crunch - will sound crap to a floppy hatted funkster who's popping and slapping all over.[/quote]

That's kind of my point, it would help if people actually staed what sort of situation they've used said piece of gear in, and what sort of music they played through it, other gear used effects etc.

People ask for advice on cabs, strings, basses even. And people automatically jump up and shout "try (insert whatever item of gear is currently in vogue)".

What they should ask is what do they want the gear for, what sort of music, how regularly will the gear be gigged etc.

[Rich]

Some of the more seasoned people here will remember how a certain Mr. P. Jones (he of the dalek cabs) reacted to criticism a few years back...

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='Rich' post='688164' date='Dec 18 2009, 10:58 AM']Some of the more seasoned people here will remember how a certain Mr. P. Jones (he of the dalek cabs) reacted to criticism a few years back... [/quote]
Not very seasoned here. Link? Or summary if it's from a site no longer in operation? Or PM if it's contentious?

[Wil]

I remember that being a great read

[Rich]

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='688167' date='Dec 18 2009, 10:59 AM']Not very seasoned here. Link? Or summary if it's from a site no longer in operation? Or PM if it's contentious?[/quote]
Back when the multi-drivered Jones stuff was The Next Big Thing, one of the guys here started a 'Good or crap? Discuss' thread looking for opinions. Mr. Jones presumably googled his name (hence my reluctance to use his full moniker) and came across this thread, and immediately launched into the OP in a big way -- you obviously know nothing about amps, who the fck are you anyway, I've got loads of big names playing my stuff and you're just an insignificant nobody, etc etc. Thus instantly alienating pretty much this entire community and losing a few thousand potential customers, thanks to his breathtaking arrogance.

[chris_b]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='687539' date='Dec 17 2009, 05:35 PM']....There is definitely a tendency for members of this site to 'big up' (for want of a better phrase) certain manufacturers....[/quote]
I don't think anyone's "bigging up" anything.

What you are seeing are the views and opinions of people who post more frequently than others. In that case it's plain that you'll hear what they have to say more than someone who posts every blue moon.

As I said before you can't complain that recommendations are one sided just because no one is posting opposing views.

[mildmanofrock]

[quote name='chris_b' post='688197' date='Dec 18 2009, 11:17 AM']I don't think anyone's "bigging up" anything.

What you are seeing are the views and opinions of people who post more frequently than others. In that case it's plain that you'll hear what they have to say more than someone who posts every blue moon.

As I said before you can't complain that recommendations are one sided just because no one is posting opposing views.[/quote]

Yep. It's simple. Take an online review with a pinch of salt and try the gear for yourself. Which is exactly what Alex lets you do.

[pantherairsoft]

I have read this thread the while way through... And it was a read and a half! :-)

I agree with about 50%, and read the rest as peoples frustration. None of the comments read here put me off. I currenty play MarkBass, who have a great reputation. I am however on my 3rd MarkBass Amp head due to the last 2 dying on me! I still use them though.

In the very near future I will be the owner of the 1st T'Double Midget cab, I'm excited about recieiving it and not at all put off by others views and experiences.

Shep

[BB2000]

[quote name='Rich' post='688186' date='Dec 18 2009, 11:10 AM']Back when the multi-drivered Jones stuff was The Next Big Thing, one of the guys here started a 'Good or crap? Discuss' thread looking for opinions. Mr. Jones presumably googled his name (hence my reluctance to use his full moniker) and came across this thread, and immediately launched into the OP in a big way -- you obviously know nothing about amps, who the fck are you anyway, I've got loads of big names playing my stuff and you're just an insignificant nobody, etc etc. Thus instantly alienating pretty much this entire community and losing a few thousand potential customers, thanks to his breathtaking arrogance.[/quote]


Allegedly. There was no proof that the email circulating was from Jones. When I had a query about my Phil Jones briefcase a few years back I emailed the company and received a reply from the man himself. I found him to be very courteous, and extremely honest in his response.

[Uncle Balsamic]

[quote name='pantherairsoft' post='689118' date='Dec 19 2009, 03:02 PM']I have read this thread the while way through... And it was a read and a half! :-)

I agree with about 50%, and read the rest as peoples frustration. None of the comments read here put me off. I currenty play MarkBass, who have a great reputation. I am however on my 3rd MarkBass Amp head due to the last 2 dying on me! I still use them though.

In the very near future I will be the owner of the 1st T'Double Midget cab, I'm excited about recieiving it and not at all put off by others views and experiences.

Shep[/quote]

I'm really interested in the T'Double Midget. Do you know when you're getting it?

[umph]

[quote name='pantherairsoft' post='689118' date='Dec 19 2009, 03:02 PM']In the very near future I will be the owner of the 1st T'Double Midget cab, I'm excited about recieiving it and not at all put off by others views and experiences.[/quote]


is that an attempt at a yorkshire accent? ;o i'm not sure i've ever actually heard anyone say T in front of anything even in deepest darkest barnsley

[BottomEndian]

[quote name='umph' post='689168' date='Dec 19 2009, 04:19 PM']is that an attempt at a yorkshire accent? ;o i'm not sure i've ever actually heard anyone say T in front of anything even in deepest darkest barnsley[/quote]
That's cos you're a Southerner. I heard it a fair bit growing up in North Yorkshire, and it's apparently quite common out Lancashire way too (so my sister-in-law-in-law tells me, and she's from Preston).

[pantherairsoft]

[quote name='Uncle Balsamic' post='689153' date='Dec 19 2009, 04:01 PM']I'm really interested in the T'Double Midget. Do you know when you're getting it?[/quote]

With any luck next week, but possible the new year. I shall find out and let you now!

[quote name='umph' post='689168' date='Dec 19 2009, 04:19 PM']is that an attempt at a yorkshire accent? ;o i'm not sure i've ever actually heard anyone say T in front of anything even in deepest darkest barnsley[/quote]

The 'T' means it has a tweeter... but I'm sure you know that already!

One of my best friends is from Barnsley and still lives there... and there is a very distinct 'T' before everything!!!