vmaxblues Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hi Guys, I recently sold a few basses on ebay, all went well except for one, I sold an Ibanex EDC 5 string bass, I played it before it went out and all was well. I then get an email and a paypal dispute filed against me, the guy has found a few minor issues, like missing screws, a bit of solder etc, which OK, could well have been true and I have no issue with and would gladly have dealt with, But he then goes on to say how badly twisted the neck is! I read on further and there is a comment about alternate tuning he was trying which rings alarm bells. I have today received the bass back, and the neck is indeed in a bad way, and totally not as I sent it out. I put the tuner on it and it is tuned 3 steps up!!! To me it is obvious that this guy has decided to tune this way up and the tension brought to bear on the neck has been too much and it has distorted, I have tuned it back down and it is starting to settle already. My questions are: 1) Is it fair to just refund in full to this guy, which is what he is after, given that I believe he has wrecked this instrument? 2) Surely you can't just tune a bass to any alternate tuning without modification? 3) Is this damage liable to be permanent? Any other helpful comments gratefully received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hmm.. it's a shame the bass has been sent back to you already. I would have been tempted to stand my ground, letting him deal with his own stupidity. I'd dig my heels in and let PayPal / Ebay know that he's wrecked it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 You have my sympathies. This is the kind of thing that anyone who sells stuff on eBay dreads, especially as sellers no longer have the feedback weapon at their disposal. No doubt the experts will chip in shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxblues Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Just to be clear, when I say 3 steps I mean one and a half tones, as in the B string was at D, and all the other strings were the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxblues Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 It wasn't until I had it returned that the extent of the damage became apparent. As to ebay, they removed the buyers fund instantly from my paypal account whilst the complaint was looked into. I am thinking of fighting this, because if the neck is screwed, I have lost an instrument through no fault of my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Maybe ,if you have pics before you sent them(ie the day you shipped) and the state of it now you could send a dispute against the other person. No expert on downtuning,but from what I've read on this site,it sounds like a truss rod job. Sounds to me like,the ''buyer'' messed around with the trussrod and buggered up your bass. If you don't win,then maybe you could name and shame the person on as many forums as possible. (providing you are totally honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moos3h Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 I feel your pain, however there is one to be aware of here. Paypal WILL refund him and rule against you. Why? Because they can, and it's easier. In my experience, these claims are rarely looked into in much detail - they will reverse the transaction. It may be sensible to get closure now, let the guy know that YOU know the facts but are prepared to draw a line under the matter and move on. It sucks, but I believe it'll save you heartache in the long run. Cheers, James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 (edited) Unless you sold the bass via eBay in a business or commercial capacity, the situation as it persists between private individuals entering into contracts of sale is quite distinct. The situation is no different for a direct sale, in person, or a remote sale. Private individuals are not regulated by the Sale of Goods legislation, including the much-promoted Distance Selling Regulations. With private individuals it is a case of caveat emptor, or “buyer beware”. Certainly, within the confines of eBay, this situation is altered to take into account the remote sales aspect, and to enforce a sense of “equity” in dealing between buyer and seller. But, within eBay, it is the responsibility of the buyer to validate the condition of any item bought at the time of delivery, or shortly thereafter, and only where the item does not conform to the substantive issues claimed in respect of authenticity or condition does the buyer have any rights to resile and recover. Certainly, a buyer does not have rights to resile and recover on the grounds of a missing screw or some imperfect soldering, as these are minor matters, of the nature to be anticipated with used goods. (The situation might be different if a claim was made as to the completeness of a particular vintage instrument, for which minor parts take on a more commercially significant nature.) While I have serious reservations as to whether you will be able to resist the buyer’s claim for a full refund within the confines of eBay, my suggestion would be that you have the instrument assessed by a respected luthier, a report prepared as to the damages incurred by the instrument, and that you offset either the cost of having necessary repairs carried out, or, in the case that the instrument is beyond repair, the full amount paid. From what you say, you have an admission either in an eBay message or email, made by the buyer, that they put the instrument to use in a way not in conformity with the manufacturer’s specifications, so it is crucial that you retain this communication as proof of the buyer’s usage of the item, and consequent damage to the item. But, it is essential that you retain all communications and get an inspection report prepared by a professional repairer. Edited December 16, 2009 by noelk27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayman Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Yes, unfortunately the buyer pulls all the strings now on ebay, so being a seller can be a nightmare for the reasons you point out. Difficult situation for you to retrieve I fear, you may be better trying to save the bass if possible and moving on as pointed out above. Ragging up the tension on a bass (or lowering it) needs to be done carefully (if at all IMO) and it sounds like your buyer has been very clumsy in trying it. What a pisser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxblues Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 As soon as I clicked on goods received back (no other check box) the case was closed and the buyer giveb a full refund! what a system. I have however appealed against this decision but dont hold out too much hope. I rang their call centre and was put on hold for 15 mins after explaining the situation, and had to terminate the premium rate call. I unfortunately agree that I should probably just put it behind me, but I will have a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmaxblues Posted December 17, 2009 Author Share Posted December 17, 2009 An update on the bass: I retuned it correctly and eased the truss rod, and after a couple of hours in a warm room the neck has returned mostly back to its original contours, the bow is coming out well, and hopefully will continue to do so. I was able to play it last night and it was playable, so fingers crossed..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemmywinks Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 A bit of good news at least, glad the bass seems ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I don't know for sure, but might you have some recourse through the county court? You have the guy's address, proof of shipping and evidence from him that he mucked about with the tuning. AFAIK, the county court judgement is based on likely probably rather than proof beyond all reasonable doubt. An e-mail from saying he'd 'experimented with some alternative tunings' plus a report from a luthier saying the neck is bowed because some cretin tuned it up 3 steps and mucked about with the trussrod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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