Earbrass Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Hi, I tried to check/set the intonation on my bass last night, and was having big problems getting the E string right - however far back I moved the bridge saddle, the note at the 12th fret remained obstinately sharp. Eventually I realised that when the open E string was in tune, the notes on [b]all[/b] the frets were sharp, and by about the same amount. No problem on the other strings. I checked these results with 2 electronic tuners, so its not "tuner error". I tried changing the E string for a new one, but the problem remained unchanged. I can have all the fretted notes in tune, or the open string in tune, but not both. The only explanation I can come up with is that the length of string between the first fret and the point in the nut from where the string starts to vibrate freely is too long: I can't see any damage to the nut, but perhaps the bed of the slot is not even, and the string is vibrating from a point within the slot rather than the "bridge-end" edge of the nut? Is that possible? Should I try gently filing the slot to make sure it's even? I'm a bit non-plussed as I have a gig tomorrow night, and don't want to do anything that could make things worse or cause another problem. I'm not the world's greatest with tools of any kind, and am a bit nervous about trying out a new (to me) procedure. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks! Earbrass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinman Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 [quote name='Earbrass' post='687501' date='Dec 17 2009, 04:59 PM']Hi, I tried to check/set the intonation on my bass last night, and was having big problems getting the E string right - however far back I moved the bridge saddle, the note at the 12th fret remained obstinately sharp. Eventually I realised that when the open E string was in tune, the notes on [b]all[/b] the frets were sharp, and by about the same amount. No problem on the other strings. I checked these results with 2 electronic tuners, so its not "tuner error". I tried changing the E string for a new one, but the problem remained unchanged. I can have all the fretted notes in tune, or the open string in tune, but not both. The only explanation I can come up with is that the length of string between the first fret and the point in the nut from where the string starts to vibrate freely is too long: I can't see any damage to the nut, but perhaps the bed of the slot is not even, and the string is vibrating from a point within the slot rather than the "bridge-end" edge of the nut? Is that possible? Should I try gently filing the slot to make sure it's even? I'm a bit non-plussed as I have a gig tomorrow night, and don't want to do anything that could make things worse or cause another problem. I'm not the world's greatest with tools of any kind, and am a bit nervous about trying out a new (to me) procedure. Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks! Earbrass[/quote] Weird - is the action very high? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 [quote name='Earbrass' post='687501' date='Dec 17 2009, 04:59 PM']The only explanation I can come up with is that the length of string between the first fret and the point in the nut from where the string starts to vibrate freely is too long: I can't see any damage to the nut, but perhaps the bed of the slot is not even, and the string is vibrating from a point within the slot rather than the "bridge-end" edge of the nut? Is that possible?[/quote] Yes, very. Especially if it's been "adjusted" by someone who's... [quote name='Earbrass' post='687501' date='Dec 17 2009, 04:59 PM']...not the world's greatest with tools of any kind, and (...) a bit nervous about trying out a new (...) procedure.[/quote] Probably best subbed out to a tech in this case [quote name='Earbrass' post='687501' date='Dec 17 2009, 04:59 PM']Any ideas or suggestions? Thanks! Earbrass[/quote] Emergency backup bass? How sharp are they? Try jamming along with your hi-fi & let your ears be the judge as to whether you can get away with it. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Ha, yeah it is a bit weird. The action was very high - about 5mm: I've lowered it to about 3.5, which has helped. It just seems that there's still more than a semi-tone difference between the open string and the note on the first fret, which I'm struggling to understand. Had a band practice last night, and I think the error is small enough to get away with in a band context, especially as I rarely play the E string above the 4th fret anyway. I'll think about taking it to a tech once this gig is over. Thanks for your thoughts. E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbyrne Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 (edited) A couple of things here - if the string/scale length is too long, the note would be flat - not sharp. The fact that it's going sharp while holding down on the first fret would initially indicate to me that the nut is cut too high & the force necessary to hold the string down is pushing it sharp. You can have too high an action if the nut slot is too high. Check this. Hold the string down between the 2nd & 3rd frets. The string should be barely above the 1st fret - the distance of the proverbial cigarette paper. If it's much greater than that, your nut slots aren't cut low enough. If you feel compitent to do it & you have suitable files, then go ahead & do it yourself - if not get someone who's done it before as it's dead easy to overcut a nut. Also make sure the slot is cut running 'downhill' toward the pegs as this give the 'witness point' at the bridge-end of the nut, where it should be. Oh - and screw down the pickups while you're doing this - the other thing that can cause this is the magnetic pull on the strings pulling it sharp - google 'stratitis'. I have my nut(s) cut like that, my necks(s) have minimal relief & I have about 2mm at the 12th fret. Doesn't suit everyone, but I have a light touch & let the amp do the work. If I want a higher action, I lift the saddles, but everything else remains the same. Geoff Edited December 18, 2009 by geoffbyrne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 Cheers Geoff, I'll give that a go. [quote name='geoffbyrne' post='688173' date='Dec 18 2009, 11:03 AM']- if the string/scale length is too long, the note would be flat - not sharp.[/quote] Yes, the open string is a wee bit flat compared to the fretted notes - so if I tune the open string to E, the fretted notes become slightly sharp in comparison, whereas if I tune the fretted notes correctly, the open string is flat. Hope that makes sense! Regards, Earbrass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffbyrne Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Could just be that the 'witness point' (never understood why it's called that) is at the peg-end of the nut slot. Check that out. G. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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