2 410's or 1 410+1 15?

[civictiger]

what would be the more punchier cab?

im looking into getting another extension onto my cab, atm I used a 4x10.
to me, though, 115's sound too boomy on their own. I use a 115 with a 210 at my rehearsal place and it sounds alright, but would a 410 and a 115 sound better than two 410's?

any input would be EXCELLENT!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='civictiger' post='689184' date='Dec 19 2009, 11:35 AM']what would be the more punchier cab?[/quote]
Since 'punch' is a purely subjective term one can't say. One also can't predict what any cab will sound like based on driver size alone, this explains why:
[url="http://www.eminence.com/resources/data.asp"]http://www.eminence.com/resources/data.asp[/url]

Most who combine a 1x15 and 4x10 do so assuming that a 1x15 will go lower than a 4x10. Usually that's not the case, nor will a 1x15 be as loud as a 4x10. The best addition to a 4x10 is another identical 4x10.

[Uncle Balsamic]

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='689198' date='Dec 19 2009, 04:48 PM']Since 'punch' is a purely subjective term one can't say. One also can't predict what any cab will sound like based on driver size alone, this explains why:
[url="http://www.eminence.com/resources/data.asp"]http://www.eminence.com/resources/data.asp[/url]

Most who combine a 1x15 and 4x10 do so assuming that a 1x15 will go lower than a 4x10. Usually that's not the case, nor will a 1x15 be as loud as a 4x10. The best addition to a 4x10 is another identical 4x10.[/quote]

+1

[civictiger]

ahh nice one mate

I was just wondering because I dont particularly like 115's. especially on their own. too boomy and thick for what i want.
well, i guess a second 4x10 would never hurt anyone!

but, would it be worth it?
my amp atm is a 300w output, but the 410 I have with it atm is 250w (I think) so would adding another 410 even be worth it?

[chris_b]

I don’t know what music you’re playing or what volume you’re trying to reach, but I think one good cab is worth 2 ordinary ones, so maybe a better 410 would be a good move? Also there’s a 610 in the For Sale section.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

[quote name='civictiger' post='689225' date='Dec 19 2009, 12:16 PM']ahh nice one mate

I was just wondering because I dont particularly like 115's. especially on their own. too boomy and thick for what i want.[/quote] You're not paying attention. Driver size and response are only peripherally related. Try a dozen different fifteens, you'll get a dozen different tones.
[quote]well, i guess a second 4x10 would never hurt anyone!

but, would it be worth it?
my amp atm is a 300w output, but the 410 I have with it atm is 250w (I think) so would adding another 410 even be worth it?[/quote]
Adding an identical 4x10 will give you 6dB additional sensitivity, the equivalent of quadrupling power. BTW, while your current 4x10 may have a 250w thermal rating it's most likely displacement limited to no more than half that. Thermal ratings alone aren't useless, but almost. Unfortunately no major manufacturer gives displacement limited ratings. Most don't even know themselves what they are.

[Mog]

Personally I'd go for another 4x10. Speaker size is not the determining factor in getting a punchy sound. Everything from pups down is what delivers the punch. Most modern 4x10's have equal if not lower range than most 1x15 cabs.

[basshead56]

I started with a Laney richter rig. it had a 4x10 and a 1x15. I always thought the 15 was a bit flabby.
I then upgraded to a similar setup from Ampeg, but again the 15 lacked depth-at least to me.
I areplaced it with a second ampeg 4x10 and robert turned out to be my mother's brother!
8x10 all the way!!!

[The Bass Doc]

FWIW - my theory. If you EQ your amp for a 4x10 then plug in to a 1x15 you'll change your EQ to make it sound right. When you put the two together a 'grey' area results. You don't know how to EQ the amp to suit both. So stick to one or the other - don't mix them.

Personally I like 2x15s but if I preferred 4x10s I'd make sure I used a pair.

[51m0n]

Dont muck about.

Give the amp an yourself a chance to derive all the power from the amp in the most straightforward way possible.

A second 4x10 is definitely the right way to go.

[civictiger]

thanks so much for the replies guys

just saved me some lot of time and money
i appreciate it! =]

merry christmas to you all, and have a great new year!

[ashevans09]

As someone who likes to stick with tens I'm just throwing this out there...

while on paper and with the science a 410 paired with a 410 is the way to go, surely it's [i]percieved[/i] tone that's the issue here? I do get confused by this sometimes, the common consensus seems to be to not mix speaker sizes, yet some of the biggest names and my favourite bassists do it (Nathan Watts springs to mind) and generate an incredible tone.

[andy67]

Is your amp capable of taking two cabs?

if so, ensure the ohms match:

2 x 16ohm cabs = 8ohm load
2 x 8ohm cabs = 4ohm load
2 x 4ohm cabs = 2ohm load

find out what the max load of your amp is, most likely 4 but check anyway!

andy

[civictiger]

yeahh Ash, my favourite (Chris Wolstenholme) mixes up, too. he also uses a stack with a combo, but his rig is too confusing, he has a different head for every amp so he can change the EQ to suit a clean tone and an EQ to suit his effects tone.
I'm pretty sure he keeps his bass low end, with a bit of treble, looses some of the bang on middle mids, and on his effects he turns the treble up to bring out the distortion sound and the low-low mids to bring out the growl a bit.

Andy -
I have checked my amp, they actually suggest for me to pair it with a 410 and a 115 (altho I think I am going to get a 410 to play safe with my sound.. im new to amp+cab, this is my first amp in that sense rather than combo's so im gonna keep it fairly safe for now)
Thanks for the heads up, though!

Edited December 25, 2009 by civictiger

[andy67]

cant beat the sound of 8 x10!

andy

[demanufacture]

I think i will choose 2x 410. Why? because all speakers are working in the same phase. If you have two different speakers (10" and 15") the normal is that they have different phases. If you are playing fast, you can hear that one cab has a little delay to that second one...

But... my favourite rig is 210 + 410 (210 8ohm and 410 4ohm because you have right power ratio for each cab: 2/3 and equal power for each speaker). 210 is a perfect cab for recording (i think it is much better than 410) and on stage both cabs have enough power and punch

[Uncle Balsamic]

Even speakers that are the same size can have phase issues together.

[demanufacture]

of course they can, specially when speakers are poor quality or/and have series connection between which on weak cabs is very offen...

but the difference between parallel connected 10" speakers (good quality speakers) is very small. Between 10" and 15" its pretty huge.

of course we are talking about the same model of speakers

[Musky]

[quote name='civictiger' post='689225' date='Dec 19 2009, 05:16 PM']ahh nice one mate

I was just wondering because I dont particularly like 115's. especially on their own. too boomy and thick for what i want.
well, i guess a second 4x10 would never hurt anyone!

but, would it be worth it?
my amp atm is a 300w output, but the 410 I have with it atm is 250w (I think) so would adding another 410 even be worth it?[/quote]

Just a thought but assuming the cab you're using is 8 ohms, your 300w head is only going to be knocking out something in the region of 200w. So adding another 8 ohm cab will give you the full 300w as well as the increased sensitivity Bill noted, i.e. a worthwhile increase in volume.

[Musky]

[quote name='johnbass57' post='694139' date='Dec 27 2009, 10:23 AM']Whilst that is true it is not really significant. The extra decibels from the extra cab are what counts. Remember volume is measured in decibels, not watts.[/quote]

Yeah, you're quite right John.

I was more concerned that the OP seemed to believe that because the cab was rated at 250w, that was the power he'd be drawing from the amp.