cliff burton effects help

[blowmytube]

hi.just wandered if anyone has any idea what effects cliff burton used for his solo's etc like anesthesia? i have looked around and all say the tel-ray(morley)power wah boost which i have and an electro harmonix big muff which i also have but i cannot get the sound right at all.if i leave just the boost on the fuzz is pretty close to the sound i want but apparantly i have read both boost and wah are meant to be engaged so when i move the pedal even in the slightest it sounds awfull not like what you hear the solo played by cliff at all.so i wandered if he might have had something else rigged up in the line? i have been putting the big muff before the pedal!
Thing is the fuzz is pretty close although not perfect im quite happy with it its just the pedal more than anything.with just the boost the fuzz still sounds ok until i use the pedal but with wah activated aswell its just screeching like mad not like the nice screech you hear on the anasthesia solo at all.it just ruins the fuzz totally and doesnt even sound like anything you would ever want to hear lol
so i tried it the other way around,and got a totally different sound altogether.no feedback or extreme horrible screeching noises everything seemed pretty good although the wah seemed a little weak and only worked in one small position not much sweep of a wah at all but better than it was now,so i wandered if anyone has an oppinion at all or know anything that might help me?

[Bloodaxe]

Hmmm...

I've thought a bit & had a hunt around the net for some info, apologies if any of this sounds a bit patronising, but I get the impression that you're quite new to the world of Bass & it's a type of question that gets asked regularly on most forums - only the Artist's name seems to change.

There seems to be a lot of "parroting" with regards to CB's gear that makes me feel a lot of people have just copied stuff wholesale from someone who just copied stuff wholesale from someone who just copied stuff wholesale from someone who etc.etc. so there isn't as much info as you'd expect.

What I gleaned was this. Cliff Burton's signal chain:

1: Cliff Burton
2: Aria Pro II SB Elite I 'Black 'n' Gold (there were others, but that & his Rick are what most people think of)
3: The effects you've listed (found a claim that it's Power Wah first, then Big Muff Pi), rumours of others. NO clue as to settings.
4: Some amplification. If you haven't seen it there's a 5-page [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386133"]thread on Talkbass[/url] that discusses CB's gear, & there seems to be a lot of unknowns regarding his amps & cabs. There's also a lot of gassing in the thread.

The single most important part of the chain is 1 - CB, & that model is sadly no longer available. Which leaves the rest...

What bass do you have? This is, I suspect, fairly crucial. If you've got (for example) a Squier Precision, you've got an uphill task straight off - not saying it can't be done, but it's an extra factor. Rickenbackers and the old 80s Aria through necks are very distinctive animals with their own qualities.

Do you use a pick, or your fingers? Both have different effects on your tone which need to be factored in.

& finally, the most contentious question...

Why do you want to do this? If you're in a hard-core Metallica tribute band, then fair enough. If you're not but you need to get close 'cause your band plays a few Metallica numbers & you want them to sound "right" then personally I'd adopt the "close enough is good enough" approach. If it's the case that CB is a hero of yours, I'd urge caution.

Jack Bruce, John Entwistle, Neil Murray, Jon Lord & a whole bunch of other guys have sounds & styles I love to bits, but what would really make my day is someone saying "I couldn't see, but thought it sounded like you were playing". 28 years in & I'm still trying for that. Sounding like yourself can be the hardest of all

Pete.

[Hamster]

I think Cliff was probably doing what you've been doing - experimenting. I've no idea what exactly he did on those solos, but you can be sure that if you don't ever find the 'perfect setting' you'll learn a good deal on trying to get there! - persevere!

[Phaedrus]

I bet Cliff put far less effort & thought into his tone than many fans do . . .

I agree that unless you're in a full-on 5-nights-a-week tribute Metallica act, and wear your flares and have the hair & tache, "close enough is good enough".

Unless . . . you're a major fan and have OCD for replicating his tone in your living room/bedroom , then fire on and good luck - past that, I'm of no help to you.

Well, I could add that even if you had the exact same gear, you'd still be up against not being in the same room, not knowing the state of repair of his gear, or how old his strings were, having different playing style, not knowing his settings on his bass/pedals/amp . . .

Rather than seek the exact method of how an artist got their tone, maybe we'd be better off trying to understand what controls on a bass/effect pedal/amp do what - I reckon that'd enable us to make a good stab at achieving any artist's tone.

In fairness though, I suppose it's inevitable that on the journey to learn how to achieve Cliff's tone, you'll learn some of all that anyway.


Mark

DANG Hammy! Same post, less words . . .

Edited December 19, 2009 by Phaedrus

[basshead92]

Which Muff Pedal are you using:

Guitar Muff
Bass Muff
Russian Muff
Sovtek Muff (not sure if it's the same as a Russian Muff)

Those are 4 Muff Pedals that I know of, unless there are some that I never knew existed

[Fullmetal]

You know I did the EXACT same setup you did a couple of years ago, Bass Big Muff + Power Wah, you won't get the same tone. It's very difficult to match.

However, doing some research it is rumoured that his setup was a Russian/Sovtek Big Muff (the guitar version I believe) + A Morley Fuzz Wah (both pedals are now discontinued). Neither pedal is played together, each is solo'd. This is just from my research over the last couple of years, I have seen many a "Cliff Burton / Anesthesia" topic and no one seems to have the exact same sound.

You'll just have to experiment and see what sounds good. If you are doing it for a Metallica tribute band, then you don't need an EXACT replica. If you are doing it for your own band / for fun, then experiment and find something different which you like.

[Chris2112]

Whilst I do love a good tone hunt, and I feel that these things should be documented and recorded for future generations to marvel at, I was always able to get a good Cliff Burton sound just by using a distortion pedal and playing with a hard touch in the right hand. Hardly scientific though...

[LiamPodmore]

I have heard someone get pretty close with a Boss MT-2, but that was a while ago so my memory of it may be abit off, i never managed it with my MT-2 but yet again i didnt try too hard.

Liam

[0175westwood29]

i say go for it! theres nothing wrong with wanting to get the same sound as a pro player in my book.

you'll never get the same sound as your not cliff, im a true believer in probs half the tone comes from how you play the other half from the gear. but you'll get close i used to have the vintage morley fuzz wah im guessing thats what you have? the big silver thing?

i found mine was a bit of a nightmare tbh the fuzz worked well but like you say kinda hard to get the wah going with it, if you can get the fuzz working and kinda close maybe try the 105q for the wah? i used to use that and a ehx metal muff setup bass and mid heavy with the top boost at about half put it after the wah and to my ears that kinda got me close enough? but it does take lots of the bass out as its a guitar pedal, so now i have clean mixed with a blues driver using an ls-2 and then the same settings on the metal muff. for me it really works some how having a bass heavy fuzz kinda sound out of the blues driver and ls-2 makes the metal muff keep the lows.

but like the guys have said experiment thats what cliff did?

andy