Wireless Systems

[Dragonlord]

OK, I just had the chance to listen to the X2 through a big rig (iamp800 and SWR410+EBS115) and I liked what I heard. It was just for a minure or so and I wasn't playing, so I can't give a detailed opinion yet, but first impressions were great. I couldn't hear any real difference, my friend who was playing said it compressed the bass frequencies a bit, but we both felt that nothing would be noticable in a band setting. I mean, it was hardly noticable at home with just the bass.

[dave_bass5]

I agree with the last two posters.
Of course a wireless system changes your sound but who will notice when a full band are playing. I find a room or stage changes my sound much more than using a wireless system.
And for the extra convenience i think its worth it. Of course i believe you still get what you pay for and i have noticed a slightly cleaner sound from my AKG WMS400 compared to my AKG GB system but only at sound check when no one else is playing. In fact i still prefer my GB as it means i dont have to worry about the transmitter pack between sets. I have found if i leave the pack on my strap in ends up laying on the floor with the strap and can (and has) been stepped on.
Ive done 5 gigs with the WMS400 and its only cut out once and i believe that was a cable and not the system.

[MuddBass]

I was going to go wireless recently, but then I read an article in the MU magazine ref the 'sell-off' of wireless fequencys by the OFCOM.

I'm sure this may affect all wireless systems so I'm keeping the money I had in my wallet until its all sorted......

I can't find the MU magazine at the moment, but I've googled and found this article which says the same, just in direct relation to radio mics used in West End theatres:

[font="Impact"][b]Auction of airwaves 'will end musicals' [/b][u][/u][/font]
By Alexa Baracaia, Evening Standard 04.01.07


Andrew Lloyd-Webber said the technology would spell 'the end of musicals'
West End musicals could be silenced forever, Andrew Lloyd Webber warned today - amid plans to sell off the technology used for wireless microphones on-stage.

Communications regulator Ofcom has said it will auction off the chunk of airwaves currently reserved for wireless mics to the highest bidder in 2012.

But Lord Lloyd-Webber, who first introduced the revolutionary radio technology to the theatre in 1971 in his hit Jesus Christ Superstar, said it would spell "the end of musicals".

He claimed producers would not have the money to compete against the likes of the mobile phone networks to buy the spectrum.

He said: "We can't go back to the cabled microphones of the Fifties and Sixties: it would be like asking audiences to go back to a version of the musical Stone Age."

Lord Lloyd-Webber said a portion of the spectrum, known as Channel 69, currently reserved for theatres, TV production companies and concert venues, should be sold at affordable prices.

[mike257]

My whole band picked up the Sennheiser Freeport when sound control dropped the price to £99, and i've had no problems at all with it - apart from forgetting to change the battery every once in a while

I did A/B it with my Planet Waves cables, and there is a slight loss in low end definition, but nothing that'd make a big difference on stage. +1 on the crap cables though, think I'll be on to OBBM soon for a replacement.

Although, the support is questionable. I emailed Sennheiser about spares, as I wanted to buy a 2nd bodypack to leave attatched to my spare bass ( to save panic-stricken fiddling with my straplocks when I bust a string on stage!!) but 12 months later, still no reply!!

[Muppet]

What sort of battery life are people getting? I'm experiencing about 5-6 hours for a Sennheiser system which I'm not overly pleased about but no idea if this is normal...

[synaesthesia]

[quote name='Toasted' post='6941' date='May 26 2007, 12:37 AM']X2 [/quote]


Absolutely. Have been gigging with this since April with no problems whatsoever. Dropped it once and it survived. I use the case that came with my 02 PDA and it hooks on my belt as opposed to my strap. Changing basses is a snap. I use the full range output as opposed to the optimised output, and have no issues with batteries (I use procells and load a fresh one per gig, a procell is approx. £1 @ on average. Procells are non retail versions of duracells and are meant for industrial usage - incl. music industry...). Never had a dropout in a gig but at soundchecks had a couple out in the front , probably due to poor line of sight with raised stages. The receiver is on my pedalboard, but I am thinking of rigging it in my rack.

Mine was an early one which came with the cheapo plastic 1/4" jacks. Changed mine to a Neutrik angled one. I think X2 now sell a better grade cable.

I suppose unless you find yourself doing Big Bottom with 30 other bassists at Wembley, you might want one that is more frequency variable. There are 5 frequency settings with the X2. Technically speaking, the X2 is not licensed for UK use amd runs beyond the 'musical' UHF bands.

Edited July 19, 2007 by synaesthesia

[Old Horse Murphy]

I've tried a few units in my time and am currently using the Freeport. It certainly does the business for me and the bodypack bounces if dropped too!!

[Dragonlord]

[quote name='synaesthesia' post='34190' date='Jul 19 2007, 06:10 PM']I use the full range output as opposed to the optimised output[/quote]
How do you do that? I haven't given it much thought, but at first glance I couldn't really understand how it works.

[synaesthesia]

[quote name='Dragonlord' post='34235' date='Jul 19 2007, 05:37 PM']How do you do that? I haven't given it much thought, but at first glance I couldn't really understand how it works.[/quote]


First you read the manual, preferably with a beverage of inspired choice such as Horlicks.

Then you either make up a cable or buy one to work with the TRS output from the receiver.If you use a standard mono cable out of the receiver you will get the 'instrument optimised output' instead of full bandwidth.

You make one which is one end TRS (tip ring sleeve, aka Stereo 1/4") and one TS (tip sleeve, aka mono 1/4"). You wire sleeve to sleeve and ring to tip. The receiver's output is TRS, and the ring signal is full bandwidth, whilst the tip signal is "instrument optimised". In X2 spiel, "insturment optimised" translates to a signal that filters off at 6 or 7 Khz or thereabouts. Not low enough to mess with a slap tone, and high enough for most people not to notice particularly if you use a cabinet without a tweeter, or if you have damaged hearing, or if your music does not need full bandwidth. Also if your amplification system of choice is not favouring full bandwidth amplification (i.e. you are distorting your signal etc) then it does not matter.

For old school tone when bass players were playing through e.g. single 15s, the natural cut off would have been about 3.5 Khz anyway, so most people who stillplay that way won't need full bandwidth. If you are on the Stanley C, Stu H, Victor W, Marcus M side of the fence, it would make a difference if you are not full bandwidth; not so if you are in the Jack B, Duck D, James J or Jaco P side of the fence.

If you don't know how to make up your cables, contact X2 or buy a standard insert cable (a Y cable, which will be one end Stereo TRS, and split into two mono 1/4 TS plugs). Just make sure you use the correct mono TS end which carries the ring signal from the stereo TRS.

I made up a few TRS to TS cables for my own use. There are comparative audio samples I posted on talkbass if you look it up. Don't ask me where, do a search.

Edited July 19, 2007 by synaesthesia

[Dragonlord]

[quote name='synaesthesia' post='34333' date='Jul 19 2007, 10:58 PM']There are comparative audio samples I posted on talkbass if you look it up. Don't ask me where, do a search.[/quote]
Chill out, I didn't intend to, I think I have heard the samples, didn't know it was you. And thanks a lot for the detailed reply, but you could also just reply "you need to make a stereo cable". That's what I thought as well by reading the manual, I have just seen a couple TBers discussing about the full range mode that I thought that maybe there was a way to do it with the supplied cable as well. English is not my first language, so don't shoot me if I don't completely understand manuals!

[synaesthesia]

[quote name='Dragonlord' post='34391' date='Jul 19 2007, 10:24 PM']but you could also just reply "you need to make a stereo cable".[/quote]

That would be inaccurate and would not work. A stereo cable (i,e. TRS to TRS) would not work. A stereo cable wires tip to tip, ring to ring and sleeve to sleeve.
What you need is a cable that takes the ring signal out of the receiver as the hot signal for full bandwidth output, sleeve being the ground.

Edited July 19, 2007 by synaesthesia

[Dragonlord]

Right, thanks. So, any chance of making and sending me a couple? If yes, pm me with the cost!

[synaesthesia]

[quote name='Dragonlord' post='34405' date='Jul 19 2007, 10:47 PM']Right, thanks. So, any chance of making and sending me a couple? If yes, pm me with the cost![/quote]

PM me you address and I'll send you one next week. It will be short and you can extend it on the mono end to however long you need.

Light a candle in your local church or give some money to a charity.

[synaesthesia]

For the sake of all interested in the X2, the preceding conversation was about the cable that comes out of the output of the receiver. The instrument to transmitter cable is not an issue with full bandwidth output.

And if you need to make up your own instrument to transmitter cables with Neutriks and the hard to find Calrad 3.5 mm locking connectors (for both X2, and Sennheiser, probably Shure as well but I have not seen the Shure systems up close...) this is a UK source:

[url="http://www.canford.co.uk/commerce/item_43-251_2001025.aspx"]http://www.canford.co.uk/commerce/item_43-251_2001025.aspx[/url]

I make mine with stock Neutrik right Angled plugs, if you want the 'new' silent Neutriks you could probably make them up too, but there aren't that many options with the locking 3.5mm connectors and these are the cheapest I have found in the UK.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='synaesthesia' post='34473' date='Jul 20 2007, 09:10 AM']For the sake of all interested in the X2, the preceding conversation was about the cable that comes out of the output of the receiver. The instrument to transmitter cable is not an issue with full bandwidth output.

And if you need to make up your own instrument to transmitter cables with Neutriks and the hard to find Calrad 3.5 mm locking connectors (for both X2, and Sennheiser, probably Shure as well but I have not seen the Shure systems up close...) this is a UK source:

[url="http://www.canford.co.uk/commerce/item_43-251_2001025.aspx"]http://www.canford.co.uk/commerce/item_43-251_2001025.aspx[/url]

I make mine with stock Neutrik right Angled plugs, if you want the 'new' silent Neutriks you could probably make them up too, but there aren't that many options with the locking 3.5mm connectors and these are the cheapest I have found in the UK.[/quote]


Can i ask if you have had any issues with freq's etc?. As the X2 isnt meant for over here i was just wondering if it clashes with any thing else.


Cheers

[synaesthesia]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='34479' date='Jul 20 2007, 09:21 AM']Can i ask if you have had any issues with freq's etc?. As the X2 isnt meant for over here i was just wondering if it clashes with any thing else.
Cheers[/quote]


None whatsoever. I check that it operates in a band for telephony I think that probably has not been sold off. No chance of clashing with another muso, as it operates well beyond the E band for Sennheiser and Shures etc.

Last Saturday, I played an off the map UK Military base (my GPS would not take me there!) which trains amongst other things, fighter pilots targeting foreign missiles. They have an airstrip, and missile launchers etc.

No Nigel Tufnel military intereference issues whatsover over two sets, soundcheck etc. (Guitarist was using a Senn 172) I suppose if the military does get into the X2 operating band, then.....

[Dragonlord]

[quote name='synaesthesia' post='34473' date='Jul 20 2007, 11:10 AM']For the sake of all interested in the X2, the preceding conversation was about the cable that comes out of the output of the receiver. The instrument to transmitter cable is not an issue with full bandwidth output.[/quote]
I was thinking... since the not-full-range signal is supposed to immitate the signal through a guitar cable, wouldn't connecting this "stereo" cable to a usual cable make the signal usual "limited" bandwidth again?

[synaesthesia]

[quote name='Dragonlord' post='34635' date='Jul 20 2007, 01:39 PM']I was thinking... since the not-full-range signal is supposed to immitate the signal through a guitar cable, wouldn't connecting this "stereo" cable to a usual cable make the signal usual "limited" bandwidth again?[/quote]


I don't understand your question.

The receiver can offer two distinct signals. The tip carries the 'instrument optimised' signal. The ring carries the full bandwidth signal. If you plug in a standard mono plug into the TRS socket, you draw the tip signal, and short the ring signal as it connects to ground. If you plug in a TRS plug into the TRS socket you will carry out both signals, but at the other end of you plug in your TRS plug into a standard mono socket typical of amps, then you short the ring signal agaln.

Edited July 21, 2007 by synaesthesia

[Dragonlord]

I don't know, for some reason I thought that the "instrument optimised" signal emulates the signal after a usual instrument cable... I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere. Guess it was wrong...

[synaesthesia]

[quote name='Dragonlord' post='35085' date='Jul 21 2007, 07:25 AM']I don't know, for some reason I thought that the "instrument optimised" signal emulates the signal after a usual instrument cable... I'm pretty sure I read this somewhere. Guess it was wrong...[/quote]


"Instrument Optimised" means that the output is cut off with a low pass around 6 or 7 Khz. What this represents as a technical saving for X2 I don't know, and why they bother to offer this I don't know.

You may or may not know this but many OB bass preamps are designed with a gentle low pass slope around 7 khz anyway. This does not mean there is no audio content beyond that, it just means there is less.

[Dragonlord]

If a cable carries the full bandwidth, I really can't understand why they use this "instrument optimised" deal... one would think that the goal of a wireless unit would be to sound as much as a cable as possible.

[dave_bass5]

During Come on Eileen last night my bloody AKG cut out again.
Cant figure out whats going on. I did three gigs without any problems after the first time it cut out. The reciever is still getting a signal, the cable ot the amp is fine as i plugged that in to the bass so i guess it could be the lead going from the bass to the transmitter. Trouble is i cant get it to happen when i want it to. Tried wiggling it etc but nothing sounds wrong. I even used it all last week, every night at home in to my PC just to make sure it was ok for the gig.
Ill give it one more chance i think. Im getting very nervous about using it now.

[nottswarwick]

Just to reiterate my liking fo rmy Shure SLX system. I think I may be the only one on here to use it, but it is great. Sounds better than the Senn 172 (I a-b tested at home in my studio), hugely frequency agile, good on batteries (uses 2*AA), totally reliable, I have NEVER had any problems at all.

I recommend it to anyone looking.

Chris

[synaesthesia]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='35746' date='Jul 22 2007, 10:56 PM']During Come on Eileen last night my bloody AKG cut out again.
.... Im getting very nervous about using it now.[/quote]


When I was looking for a wireless someone told me that it would either be: < £30 cable or >£300 wireless.

In the >£300 range, you could also consider the Lectrosonics IS400. It is digital like the X2 but the Lectrosonics is 88.2khz sample rate, whilst the X2 I suspect isn't, and is more frequency agile than the X2.
[url="http://www.lectrosonics.com/wireless/400/is400.htm"]http://www.lectrosonics.com/wireless/400/is400.htm[/url]

BTW, X2 have annnounced a rack mount version just this week.....
[url="http://www.x2digitalwireless.com/product_xdr95.htm"]http://www.x2digitalwireless.com/product_xdr95.htm[/url]

[tayste_2000]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='35746' date='Jul 22 2007, 10:56 PM']During Come on Eileen last night my bloody AKG cut out again.
Cant figure out whats going on. I did three gigs without any problems after the first time it cut out. The reciever is still getting a signal, the cable ot the amp is fine as i plugged that in to the bass so i guess it could be the lead going from the bass to the transmitter. Trouble is i cant get it to happen when i want it to. Tried wiggling it etc but nothing sounds wrong. I even used it all last week, every night at home in to my PC just to make sure it was ok for the gig.
Ill give it one more chance i think. Im getting very nervous about using it now.[/quote]


Check that you aren't clipping it as I've done this a few times and if you consistently clip the receiver for a while it cuts out as some sort of protection for the units.

Else if you are really unhappy with it I'm still after a second unit