Making the transition to 5 string

[vmaxblues]

Hi all,

Since acquiring a beautiful Lightwave Sabre VL 5 string I have decided to work at making a transition to 5 string, I have dabbled over the years with extended range basses, but have always gone back to what I know best.

But it is interesting how many of you have made the jump and are devout 5 stringers!

So, any advice on making the jump to 5, any tips or is it just the case of working in the extra string when it suits.

Cheers

Stuart

[Huge Hands]

I have, and I love 5 strings!

The reason for me is that I love the occasional addition of the rumbly low notes without having to detune, and I prefer to play scale shapes in keys such as E and Eb without having to play open strings or move about the neck more. It might be lazy, but that's the way I like it.

I also taught myself to sit with my thumb on the E-string when not playing it as I would a 4 string. This keeps both E and B strings muted, and also to keep my hand "memory" for when I occasionally go back to a 4 string.

I don't know if it has worked, but I seem to be able to swap fairly easy, and that's what I keep telling myself anyway!

Good luck with it, I would always advise someone to try it before knocking it.

[spinynorman]

If I'm reading you right, you tried 5s before, but went back to 4. That's what I did, despite having a Spector 5 I really did like. However, we do covers and mostly I'm working off something close to the original bass line. I tried adapting those lines for 5 strings and decided the difference wasn't worth the effort and the risk of mistakes. Where I did find it easier was things like blues, where I'm improvising the bass around a chord sequence. So I think the answer would be to throw away the original 4 string lines and rework the songs from scratch, but I just didn't have the time or motivation to do it.

Good luck with it (from a failure )

[J3ster]

I use a 5 string now and then but i think it makes me lazy so 95% of the time I am using a 4 and more of the fretboard and being more imaginative.

I'd much rather go up and down than side to side!!!

I find a 5 string a little easier to teach and play and less to think about strangely enough, but you need to think of it as a different instrument in terms of where you play and not just a 4 with an added 'B' (if that's actually the config you have) Meaning I play a 5 with a different mindset to a 4.

Also if you are reading or playing covers - most are done with a 4 so need a bit of tweaking, so work them out onto the 5 and get used to it that way.

Edited December 21, 2009 by J3ster

[chris_b]

You will feel uncomfortable at first and swapping back and forth with your old 4 string will do you no favours. Put the 4 string away and don't touch it for at least a year.

You can treat a 5 string like a 4 string with an extra thumb rest if you like but the thing that catches most people out is they start numbers on the wrong string! That goes away after awhile. I have never liked playing open strings so a 5 string lets me play more comfortably in E, F and F# etc. I think a 5 string bass is a great instrument.

[Conan]

I tried to make the switch about four years ago, and am still struggling somewhat!

There are a number of reasons for this, but the main one is simply that I haven't practiced often enough or long enough on the five! I often find myself plucking one string but fretting another!

To me, the main advantage of the five is the low B. IMO, bass is all about the low notes - and a five string give an extra four notes BELOW low E! OK, there are other advantages but that's the main one for me.

I think that some players face additional problems in moving to a five string because they often buy a cheap or at best mid-range instrument - working on the assumption that "if I don't like it or can't get away with it, at least I haven't wasted too much cash!". I certainly fell into that trap, and then found that the five I bought didn't really suit me! Kind of a lose/lose situation...

Somtimes I console myself with the "well, four strings were enough for Entwistle, Miller, Squire, Lee, King et al" argument, which is, of course, a cop-out on my part!

The moral of the story is - PRACTICE!!

[NJE]

5's are starnge beast and everyone has different experiences in making the switch. I have been playing 5 strings for about 2 1/2 years now and most of that time I have not owned a 4 string (had a jazz 4 string a couple of months back but quickly sold it because it didnt feel right playing 4).

I tried a 5 when I was about 18 and didnt get along with it at all. I then decided to try again and bought a very nice warwick for very little just in case. As soon as I picked it up and played for ten minutes it just felt right and I didnt touch my stingray again. It was sold a couple of weeks later for a better 5 string and I never looked back.

I think it was because I didnt over think it and didnt make it out to be a any different to a four (so completely different approach to J3ster below). I know people that overthink it and let it scare them to an extent but I thought about it as the same instrument but with a few extra notes and as soon as I thought about it like that it was simple. Also it sounds really stupid but learn the notes on that string like you do on a 4 when you first start playing, and also try running through scales incorporating it.

I really liked the B string and started using it to go down to notes from the E string rather than up to the A string. I dont use it all the time as its not always needed but it is great to drop right down sometimes and feel that rumble.

Like someone mentioned previously, I use it to go accross the neck rather than up and down and it makes life very easy oince you get used to it. The low C,D and E is great to have (rarely use a low and I think the key to switching for me was just learning to substitute the notes I usually play on A string with those on the B to start with. When I got used to using the notes on the B I was then able to incorporate them when needed as well as using the higher notes. Also listen to some records with 5 string on and just try and play along and learn them. Canned heat by Jamiroquai is a fun one on a 5.

Maybe it was because I had no choice but to get along with it as i quickly sold my 4 strings, but if you put some time in it really does become very natural quite quickly in my experience.

Sorry that was a long old rambling post.

Nathan

[bubinga5]

I play both and cant really understand why people go to 5 strings and dont or cant go back to 4....i play both bcause my 4 and 5 have different tones that i use..

the only drawbacks can be a slightly wider neck..someone said a 5 is a different instrument?? its an electric bass with an added B string..thats it...the advantages are you have lower note frequencies and you can move around easier without making big jumps..

i think some who want to play a 5 overthink it...get to know all the notes on the string, and get used to the wider neck...its a little alien at first but you get used to it...after a while a 4 stringer will look very simple..

practise practise practise...6, 7, strings next hey!!!

Edited December 21, 2009 by bubinga5

[Sibob]

Is it Happy Jack's Lightwave Sabre that you're getting?

If so, it's a real beauty!

Si

[Doddy]

I had a problem when I first played a 5 string for about 10 minutes,but it pretty
soon became ok.
I play the 4 and the 5(and 6) pretty much the same-I know the 'board well enough that
I can play anywhere on the neck comfortably. I never view them as being seperate,and although
I tend to gig mostly with a 5 string(at the moment),I don't have any trouble switching back to
a 4.
The neck width shouldn't really be that much of an issue if you have your technique
together.

[vmaxblues]

Wow, great answers guys.

And yes it is the same Sabre, and it is fantastic which has inspired me to push on with the 5.

I want to be able to change between 4's and 5's without worrying, I can pick up a 5 now and play it, but I am sort of treating it as a 4 with an extra string instead of the whole entity approach, which I know is wrong. Also I realise you can't just drop these lower 'bomb' notes in as they do tend to be quite noticable, so I must stay in context of the song of course.

I agree, it is probably one of those, practise is everything scenarios, just as when I was learning backing vocals and playing bass together, thought I'd never crack that, now it is second nature.

Thanks all and keep it coming.

Cheers and Merry Christmas

Stuart

[bassmanady]

I had been playing 4 string basses for 26 years,until i bought my first 5 ,a Warwick thumb with led's,in 1990.

The only thing i found to start with was mistaking the B for the E a few times,but that was all...I carried on playing 4/5 stringers for another year,until i found i was using and relying on having the B string a lot more in the band.

So since then its only been 5's,i just love them

[leschirons]

Been on a five now for about 16 years out of about 20 and like the previous poster, hit the B instead of the E a few times but the constant p*** taking soon gets you over that. I still use a 4 for particular songs but only due to the sound I need.

Once you've done a few weeks with it, it will seem completely natural. Recently (2 years) I moved on to 6 strings and apart from the neck width, it's no problem. Mainly play the five though. A sort of all things to all men type of bass from my point of view.

I wouldn't look too deep for any advice or tips on this issue. At the end of the day, it's just a bass with one more string that's really handy sometimes.

[mrcrow]

[quote name='vmaxblues' post='690643' date='Dec 21 2009, 02:13 PM']Hi all,
Since acquiring a beautiful Lightwave Sabre VL 5 string I have decided to work at making a transition to 5 string, I have dabbled over the years with extended range basses, but have always gone back to what I know best.
But it is interesting how many of you have made the jump and are devout 5 stringers!
So, any advice on making the jump to 5, any tips or is it just the case of working in the extra string when it suits.
Cheers
Stuart[/quote]

i did the jump to use fretted E and low D...so at every opportunity i used them somewhere in the song
i found eventually they werent all that important and i could get the other notes higher up clearly on a 4 anyway
my combo really wasnt up to low B etc and really was a party pooper where it should have made everything mega bass
i did however buy my first musicman...the 5 of course...and although i went back to a 4 and not a musicman i can say the tone from them and the active 3 band really got more musicality out of the 4 string note applications

i needed to try a 5 to really see whether one was what i needed....and i dont

cheers
geof

[Mykesbass]

I went straight to 5 from guitar - had been playing rhythm guitar in a Big Band for years so was used to playing Eb, Bb and Ab, so was never comfortable playing open strings. I find for D (and even E without playing open) the five is the perfect option, otherwise you end up in too high a register.

[JimBobTTD]

I moved to 5 strings in the summer and found it not difficult at all with an extra string. Like Doddy above, I became used to it in a very short space of time and, barring a couple of times hitting the B string and not the E, I've had no problems at all. I don't use the extra notes all that often, but I find it easier to play some songs further up the neck and I really enjoy the tonal difference of the fretted E. In the two cover bands I'm in now, I could easily do everything with four strings, but I don't want to limit myself to that. With the music I play, and the bass I have, there's nothing I can't do - and no tone I want/need - that I can get with a 4 which I can't with my 5. Love it!

[thepurpleblob]

I chop about between both and don't give it a second thought. I actually find a full night on a 5 a bit hard on my fretting hand so I take both. However, I think the place to start is to lock up your four strings and play nothing but the 5. Don't worry about the B string to start off with. Just get comfy with it. You can then start throwing in the odd low D and playing root-fifths between the E and B strings etc.

[Mog]

I always prefer to play across the neck rather than up and down.It can be a tricky move and can seem disconcerting at first but its a step all bassists should at least try IMHO, next stop is a 6er!

[JTUK]

It is all about where you think you are..and you can go into auto mistaking the B for the E a few times..but that comes with being comfortable which is a time thing

It took me about 12-18 months to cross over and do almost everything on a 5 and I wouldn't go back. 5 is the standard for me now.

As long as the string spacing are roughly the same on your 4 as they are on a 5, it is just about getting the B into your head.
I changed because I started to hear things in terms of a 5..and detuning wasn't an option for long but I do try and keep to P-Bass type spacings on any new 5 I am interested in at both bridge and nut. I don't use a bassball bat grip so that helps.

If you intend to swap back and forth, then it might take longer to get past the B/E string thing. I'd second the idea of just playing a 5 for quite a while..

[sdgrsr400]

I'm no expert, but on a 4 you can for a lot of the time get away with a fairly fixed RH position (I'm not saying you do of course), whereas with the wider expanse of the strings with a 5 (let alone 6) this is not really possible without awkward stretching. The solution is to keep the RH mobile, not anchored in one place. It can be a bit daunting to give up the security of thumb on E/PU/etc initially, but you will grow in familiarity with the bridge area in due course. And of course one needs to move around to play near the fingerboard or right on the bridge to get very different tones also.

I have to say I feel a little uneasy when I see people on this board asking about fitting thumb rests because that seems to be going in the direction of a locked-down RH position, which I don't really favour - or maybe I'm missing the point. Ah well, each to his own I guess...

Edited December 21, 2009 by sdgrsr400

[iamthewalrus]

I made the move from 4 to 5 in 1996, & like a few, managed to mistake the B for E when I first started using it on gigs. The way I cured that was by playing scales & arpeggios down the bottom end of the neck to get more familiar with the extra range. After that, using a 4 felt like someone had cut one of my fingers off! I've been using a 5 ever since & have never really looked back.

I don't own any 4's now, but occasionally play one of the guitarist's Squier VMJ at a scaled down rehearsal at his house.

The main thing about using the low range is to use it sparingly - it then tends to have a better effect rather than just riding low C or D all night! I find I tend to spend more time playing in the middle of the neck rather than down the bottom...

As one of the previous posters pointed out, the other thing you need to develop is an efficient plucking hand technique - I'm still trying to get my head around "floating thumb" as I've been using a moveable anchor ever since I started playing.

Keep persevering with it & I'm sure it will all come good in the end.

Cheers,
iamthewalrus

[Bottle]

I've used both 4- and 5-stringers - haven't really got a preference, although I'm loving my Squier 4 string P-Special a lot at the moment!

Had a 5-string Ibby for six months or so this year - moved that on to a deserving home. Struggled a bit with it TBH, mainly with the string spacing, perhaps wasn't ready for the transition to a five. Occasionally miss the lower notes, particularly the low C/Db/D/Eb. I've detuned my Squier to D Standard, and like that configuration a lot, for the music I play in church it's ideal . Maybe I'll go back to a five when I'm a more mature player, but I'm thinking about buying another 4-string and tuning it BEAD - I believe this is the best of both worlds for where I am at the moment as a musician.

Anyway, this is all my own opinion, and your mileage may vary. Give it a go and see what you think. Patience is the key, and I don't think I kept the 5-er long enough to get used to it. Plus it was a big, heavy bugger, and the Squier is [i]soooo[/i] much lighter!

Take care, and let us know how it turns out

Ian

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

Had a friend stay at my place ,after a gig. (2003?) He said there was a new music shop
at the bottom of 'virgin Tott CT.RD, (soundcontrol) .
I saw a lovely bass on the wall ,looking at me. It was a 5 string, it was a schecter

Ended up buying it there and then . Joined band,never used it there . (only doodling at home)

Suddenly ,this year , new guitarist starts playing stuff in low d etc.
Been using alot over last few months.

I find that it's easier to learn songs on a 5 than a 4 .
The way I do it is ,start playing from the centre of the neck (roughly 5th-7th fret).
That way,I recognise by ear the sound as I play usually on a 4 string.
Only thing I find with the 5 ,is that the G string gets minimal use. (Playing covers at the mo')

I may take the g string off I have been bringing 2 basses to practices,but at present
we are doing everything in standard tuning,so I'm using a 4 again.

Edited December 22, 2009 by RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE

[nottswarwick]

biggest thing in my experience is muting the low string - those big low B strings can resonate in live situations if left unchecked.. I use (and teach) a floating thumb technique that sorts this out, but can be tricky to get used to if you have been anchoring to the pickup.

I find it pretty easy to swap between the two. Having said that I use my four stings more as they are mostly all I need - much of my playing is covers which does not have notes lower that E. Plus my SR 5 is heavy, being bigger.

[NickH]

I'm getting a covers band rolling at the moment. We have both male and female vocals which work really well together, but they're in very different ranges so when we pick a song to cover there's a lot of noodling about in different keys finding which works for both. The 5 lets me do that in ways that a 4 just doesn't, especially as we tend to drop rather than raise the key. (This is also excellent for p!55!ng off your guitard - to the singer "Key of E no good for you mate? Let's go to Eb!" - capo comes out, so do the swearwords )

I like to mess with songs anyway, learn to play it in a few different keys as an exercise for the brain, fingers and ears. Take a few songs in E or A, then transpose them down first one step to Eb or Ab, then two, and keep going til your E songs are in C or B and you're really delving the depths of the 5-string's range. Songs which previously had open-string riffs are great for this as you're forced to fret the root note and take the scale from there to play the rest.