obi 2 kenobi Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 These bands appeared around the same time in the mid 80s or so and were all kind of early pioneers of funk metal punk combos with Bad Brains possibly the first in this genre. RHCP really exploded on scene in '91 with BSSM leaving the other bands well behind. Is it because their songs were 'better' or is there another reason ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Just Lucky..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumfrog Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 [quote name='obi 2 kenobi' post='692238' date='Dec 23 2009, 12:12 PM']These bands appeared around the same time in the mid 80s or so and were all kind of early pioneers of funk metal punk combos with Bad Brains possibly the first in this genre. RHCP really exploded on scene in '91 with BSSM leaving the other bands well behind. Is it because their songs were 'better' or is there another reason ?[/quote] imho it's because bssm was a fantastic album, helped no end by under the bridge, which pretty much gave them a massive limelight. The other bands didn't really have a similar song that had such a wide appeal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosebass Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 [quote name='crez5150' post='692239' date='Dec 23 2009, 12:13 PM']Just Lucky.....[/quote] What he said.... Plus people generally go with the flow to 'fit in' and Living Color , Fishbone etc have never been 'fashionable' although both are much superior to RCHPM whatever they is, or summat or nothing, shutup.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 BSSM is one of the best albums of that genre IMO & the earlier RHCP albums were very good too. their new stuff since By The Way all sounds samey to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 There is a long tradition of White artists benefitting from the success of pirated/plagiarised 'Black music'. Benny Goodman, the so called 'King of Swing' was said to ride on the abilities of Freddie Keppard etc, the first jazz band recorded 'the Original Dixieland Jazz Band' were White, Chet Baker had commercial successes where Miles Davis didn't (Baker did sing tho' which made him more marketable), Bill Haley, Elvis Presley et al were all said to be clones of black artists - it is often said that Presley's success was based on his being a White man (more marketable) simply doing what Black acts had been doing for years in the more marginal 'Race' market. In the 1980s, Herbie Hancock made a video for his 'Rockit' single that did not feature him as his presence on-screen, as a Black artist, was thought to have made the product less marketable to the new video channels like MTV. Perhaps all of this is demographically inevitable - people of one culture taking something from another and making it accessible to a new market. Perhaps its subtle or not so subtle racism - the White market preferring to spend money on one of its own. Its always difficult to be absolutely sure. It may simply be that the work of Black artists at that time didn't resonate with the marketplace the way it does now. But that doesn't explain Michael Jackson, Motown, Stevie Wonder etc. Maybe the Rock/Metal market wasn't ready for Black guys playing music that was traditionally White. In truth, Vernon Reid, of Living Color, already had a pedigree as a free jazz musician (Ronald Shannon Jackson's Decoding Society, Hal Wilner's 'Weird Nightmare', Bill Frissel's In Line' etc) and may have been less satisfied with the commercial market. Maybe a lot of the underground Black metal bands were just ahead of their time. In short, I'm damned if I know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='692305' date='Dec 23 2009, 01:16 PM']Maybe a lot of the underground Black metal bands were just ahead of their time.[/quote] This is, of course, separate from Black Metal, which is largely played by white guys in Scandinavia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I don't think you can bring race into it. BSSM is a great album,and that no doubt helped the Chili's become majorly popular-especially the songs 'Give it Away' and 'Under the Bridge'. As cool as Fishbone and Living Color are,they haven't had any songs that have made it really big commercially-like the Chili's have. Coming from the same scene,bands like Primus,Mr. Bungle and the Limbomaniacs never gained the same kind of popularity as the Chili's either,despite making some great music,so I don't believe it's anything to do with colour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I listened to all of those bands (from the mid 80s onwards) and other funk-metal / crossover stuff and BSSM blew the rest of them out of the water, even before the singles gained them mass appeal. No album they've done since has come close, despite how well crafted and produced it all is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witterth Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) Fishbone!!! they were really good weren't they!!! what happend? did they make like a banana? I quite vividly remember them on "The Tube"...Top... top Turn. not so sure about "Living colour" though...bit too....muso(?) oh I dunno just didn't float my boat. singer was/is a fine actor though...was'nt he in Hamburger Hill or Full Metal Jacket? a veitnam type of pic that everyone was making in the late 80's, anyway can't I remember.I do just remember being impressed at the time. .......or was it the drummer? ooopppsss! Edited December 23, 2009 by witterth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Steve Salas Colorcode. Dan Reed Network. The Electric Boys. Plenty of bands fell by the wayside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodaxe Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I've always viewed music as the ultimate Meritocracy, I couldn't give a damn about a player's cultural heritage, if they make me go YEAH!, they're in. Commercial success ultimately hinges on long-term mass appeal - RHCP have the knack for that, Living Color didn't. P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witterth Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 [quote name='Bloodaxe' post='692393' date='Dec 23 2009, 03:21 PM']I've always viewed music as the ultimate Meritocracy, I couldn't give a damn about a player's cultural heritage, if they make me go YEAH!, they're in. Commercial success ultimately hinges on long-term mass appeal - RHCP have the knack for that, Living Color didn't. P.[/quote] good call P!!! you're spot on.... Though some guys did "miss the boat" in the scheme of things ,didn't they? Jackie Wilson/Wilson Pickett/Big Joe turner/T- bone walker/ J Jamerson/James Brown/Buddy Guy and Sam Cooke all didn't have the success in the "living years" they deserved did they? well.. I don't think so... but then again We're still talking about them...so.....? am I wrong as well? I know some of then were taken early but...., but do you get me? W Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Having done some considerable research into the lives of Black American musicians, I have absolutely no doubt that they were hugely disadvantaged up until the Civil Rights movement but am equally convinced that the racism that resulted in their active oppression didn't just go away because Rosa Parks didn't give up her bus seat. It just got more subtle. There is so much evidence of the marginalisation of Black Americans in all walks fo life, even today, that it would be incredible if this didn't work its way into the music business. Whilst my own value base would agree with Bloodaxe in terms of 'if it sounds good, it is good', the OP was referring to the commercial success or otherwise of a string of Black artists not at his opinion of their individual merits and asking whether this was a consequence of Race. I suspect it played a part - maybe in the distribution of their product, their mainstream media presence, the inches of newsprint they were given, the support of the record companies, the frequency with which they appeared on the radio, the support gigs they were offered etc etc. It is hard to point at this and screm 'racism' as other white bands get the same treatment but, comparing like for like, were they disadvantaged by their Race? Maybe? Maybe not - whatever happened, they made their mark and should be congratulted. RHCP came too late for me so its not fair for me to compare their appeal (I have never heard BSSM but have heard Vivid, Stain and the otehr Vernon Reid stuff mentioned earlier). But I would be surprised if the Black acts listed and RHCP were competing on a level playing field. PS - the concept of music as the ultimate Meritocracy is a personal one. I used to share it but, after years of looking at the issue, have had to come to the conclusion that it is not the case and nevet was. Read Val Wilmer, Frank Kofsky, Albert Murray, Stanley Crouch, Amira Baraka.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebeat Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 [quote name='witterth' post='692354' date='Dec 23 2009, 02:29 PM']...was'nt he in Hamburger Hill or Full Metal Jacket? sed at the time. ......[/quote] Was Platoon and it was Corey Glover the lead singer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 RCHP are probably a little bit more accessible to a 'general' audience. Personally I don't get into RCHP and prefer the more challenging Living Colour. I remember my best mate bought Living Colour's new release back in the early 90's and try as much as he could, just couldn't get into the album at all and ended up selling it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I've gone over this many many times in my head...I believe RHCP were lucky; plain and simple. Right place, right time. While Blood Sugar Sex Magic is a good (not great) CD; fundamentally in Rick Rubin they had a strong, in vogue producer at the helm, production is strong as a consequence, but it does not belie the fact that the vocals are poor (AK simply can't hold a tune, but hey, he's a millionaire and I just work in an office, so what do I know?) and the guitar playing is very scratchy. Chad'n'Flea are however in good form throughout. Let's not forget that they released two pretty patchy albums prior to BSSM. Now ask yourself one question. Have they ever surpassed this album? If you're not a big fan, can you name more than one album they released since (without looking on wikipedia)? Sure they have this inane ability to sell through and put bums on chairs, but they're even more a cartoon of the band that they were in 1991. Arguably they were not the best of that particular genre by some stretch...musically I'd say Primus win there by some way; I'd argue that most of the other contenders (Living Colour, Fishbone, Stevie Salas Colorcode, Dan Reed Network, Jane's Addiction, King's X) worked better as a sum of their constituent parts than the RHCPs. P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny-79 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 RHCP, BSSM is still as good today as it was when i first heard it back in 91. its a timeless classic love it or hate it pretty much everybody has owned a copy of it at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Funk and punk? Same thing isn't it? I saw Living Colour on their first tour and the Chilis on the Mothers Milk tour. Living Colour where light years ahead musicully but the Chilis were a band who were living in the moment. They were brutal, f***ed up and not arsed about performing a cohesive show, they were amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I think that RHCP did have the right place / right time thing going on after the other bands had helped to create a market! Also, RHCP had a hit album / single with BSSM & 'Under The Bridge' and followed it with a great album chock full of hits (Californication). Living Color had a hit with 'Love Rears It's Ugly Head' and followed it with a 'challenging' album with no hits (and wasn't very good) and so missed their chance to go to the next level...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 RHCP - good band cos of the great drummer. No diss on the rest of them, but without Chad Smith they would be nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 [quote name='danny-79' post='692572' date='Dec 23 2009, 08:51 PM']....ove it or hate it pretty much everybody has owned a copy of it at some point.[/quote] Its a small world you live in, Danny - I can pretty much say, unequivocally, that the percetnage of the musicians I regularly play with that will have owned or heard BSSM is tiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Is Flea black? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 [quote name='Doddy' post='692329' date='Dec 23 2009, 01:44 PM']As cool as Fishbone and Living Color are,they haven't had any songs that have made it really big commercially-like the Chili's have.[/quote] Everyone in America knows 'Party At Ground Zero', which was on Fishbone's first EP. In the USA they actually did alright with growing sales up to the release of Reality of My Surroundings, but fell away again after that. Mostly because their follow-up record was insane, and Columbia dropped them after it flopped. To be fair, I think marketing Fishbone would be a complete nightmare even with the best will in the world. [quote name='witterth' post='692354' date='Dec 23 2009, 02:29 PM']Fishbone!!! they were really good weren't they!!! what happend? did they make like a banana?[/quote] Guitarist quit after touring ROMS, had a bit of a mental breakdown by all accounts, the story was that he went and joined a religious cult, then Norwood decided to rescue him and he was charged with kidnap, but that might not be true. Organ/trombone/singer quit after the next record, drummer quit a couple of records later, then trumpet/singer quit. It's now basically Angelo and Norwood, plus John Steward (long-term replacement drummer, used to be in Super 8) and whoever else they can get to go on tour with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witterth Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 (edited) [quote name='thisnameistaken' post='692825' date='Dec 24 2009, 10:15 AM']Everyone in America knows 'Party At Ground Zero', which was on Fishbone's first EP. In the USA they actually did alright with growing sales up to the release of Reality of My Surroundings, but fell away again after that. Mostly because their follow-up record was insane, and Columbia dropped them after it flopped. To be fair, I think marketing Fishbone would be a complete nightmare even with the best will in the world. Guitarist quit after touring ROMS, had a bit of a mental breakdown by all accounts, the story was that he went and joined a religious cult, then Norwood decided to rescue him and he was charged with kidnap, but that might not be true. Organ/trombone/singer quit after the next record, drummer quit a couple of records later, then trumpet/singer quit. It's now basically Angelo and Norwood, plus John Steward (long-term replacement drummer, used to be in Super 8) and whoever else they can get to go on tour with them.[/quote] Norwood... of course.. Norwood he was/is great isn't he? mad as fish in parka though. Edited December 24, 2009 by witterth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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