Amplification recommendations please!

[Conan]

[font="Comic Sans MS"]Hi all!

I joined this forum a few weeks ago and have really enjoyed reading through a lot of threads about gear. Sadly, I've realised that after a couple of years "out of the loop" I am seriously out of touch with what's what in the amp and cab sector of the market...

I swapped my trusty (but extremely heavy!) Trace Elliot stack (the "classic" AH250 with 1048 and 1518 cabs) for an Ampeg SVT200-T and SVT115E cab about three years ago. The Trace was regularly gigged and really had the sounds that I wanted, so I was sad to see it go but it just wasn't getting used as I took a band sabbatical. I was really looking for cash but the only guy I met who was interested didn't have the cash to spend! Anyway, the Ampeg gear also has a great sound (at home volumes at least) but I haven't gigged it yet.

So what's this all about? Well, I am trying to get another band off the ground, in a prog-rock covers style and I suspect I will need more power/volume. The Ampeg amp gives 200w into 8 ohms and the 115 is an 8 ohm cab. Into a 4 ohm load it will deliver 350w.

So, I have a dilemma! I don't like gigging with one cab as I am quite tall and can't hear the speaker throw very well if it is on the ground (as it should be to get a decent low end).

Do I get another cab to sit with the 115? If so, should it be another cab loaded with 15s? From my experience with the Trace gear, I think I prefer the sound of 15s over 10s - but I have never tried 12s. Would a 2x10 cab work well in tandem, or would a 4x10 give a more balanced sound? The band is pretty loud and most gigs will be played on backline with only vocals and keys into the PA.

I don't have a characteristic tone that I am looking for, but generally like to keep it clean with plenty of top and bottom, some mid-range for definition and growl, but not too much. Not that this will be very helpful I guess! I also play a bit of funk-style stuff, with both slap and fingers. I have even been known to use the odd pick for effect...

The other question is over brand and mass! I got rid of the Trace gear predominantly because it was so heavy. Now it seems that there are a lot of lightweight (or, to be pedantic - low-mass!) cabs that promise the same volume and tone as the traditional lead wardrobes. Many of you on here rave about MarkBass, BareFaced, Epifani and so on; yet there are others who have tried the Neo drivers and gone back to the older, heavier types!! What's that all about? Also, TBH, I think the MarkBass little marks and those little Genz Benz heads look a bit silly perched on top of a full-sized cabinet!!

Clearly, it seems that although there is more quality gear around than ever before - choosing the right set-up is harder than ever! I do not have limitless funds (and some of this will depend on whether I sell two basses and possibly the Ampeg gear).

From what I've read so far, I quite like the sound and price of the BareFaced "Big One" - but that would still leave me with a rather short (in terms of height) stack, wouldn't it? Even with it's claimed sound dispersal. Would it be compatible with the Ampeg? At 6 ohms I guess I would get about 275w out of the amp...

I'm confused. I'm wracked with GAS and stymied by options paralysis!!!

HELP!! All advise welcomed.

[/font]

Edited December 27, 2009 by Conan

[JackLondon]

Well I use Barefaced Compact paired with GK 1001RBII. I have played gigs with it in many different venues and never had a problem with hearing myself. I'm 6'7" so not on the smaller side and since the Compact is smaller tham the BigOne I assume you would not have a problem hearing your bass on the stage!

For what you say I would also recommend GK heads. IMHO they are more versatile than some of the MarkBass, GenzBenz or whatever people will soon say you should get!

Best of luck with finding your gear! This is the place to get the best deals on some S/H stuff as well as almost brand new bits and pieces!

Cheers
Jack

[Mr. Foxen]

If the Big One is in your budget, get yourself signed up to the taster tour [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=58279&st=80&start=80"]here[/url] to see if its your thing, I think it is designed for dealing with high power amps, but also to provide very good coverage, so your position relative to it doesn't matter much.

My current reccomendation is a preamp you like and a suitable power amp, since they seem to be very cheap for a lot of power. Doesn't look as cool as an Ampeg stack though. You get a lot of modular tweakability though.

[Conan]

[quote name='JackLondon' post='694306' date='Dec 27 2009, 03:11 PM']Well I use Barefaced Compact paired with GK 1001RBII. I have played gigs with it in many different venues and never had a problem with hearing myself. I'm 6'7" so not on the smaller side and since the Compact is smaller tham the BigOne I assume you would not have a problem hearing your bass on the stage!

For what you say I would also recommend GK heads. IMHO they are more versatile than some of the MarkBass, GenzBenz or whatever people will soon say you should get![/quote]

Cheers Jack! Crikey - six seven!! I'm just a dwarf then at six three!

What exactly do you mean by the GK heads being "more versatile" than others? In terms of tone-shaping or just different sounds?

[JackLondon]

The GK heads give you great tonal range, You can get tones suitable for any kind of music and if you set it up properly it's ears heaven IMHO. They have tones of headroom as well as power, you can drive 2 cabs but if you'd go for a BF BigOne you wouldn't need two of them based on my experience with the Compact!

If you liked your TE cabs than I think that you wouldn't like the BareFaced on the beggining because they give you much cleaner sound without all the distortion that Trace would give you. Practice place I use provides Trace backline and I hate it but it's just my point of view.

You will have some trying out to do since there's loads of cabs and heads you can try.
If you're ever in London you are welcome to come and try out my rig.

Cheers
Jack

[Conan]

[quote name='JackLondon' post='694403' date='Dec 27 2009, 05:29 PM']If you liked your TE cabs than I think that you wouldn't like the BareFaced on the beggining because they give you much cleaner sound without all the distortion that Trace would give you. Practice place I use provides Trace backline and I hate it but it's just my point of view.
Cheers
Jack[/quote]

Interesting! I've never heard TE described as distorted!! Maybe the gear your rehearsal place has is knackered? Mine were old (ca 1986) and never sounded distorted - at least to MY ears!

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Conan' post='694416' date='Dec 27 2009, 05:57 PM']Interesting! I've never heard TE described as distorted!! Maybe the gear your rehearsal place has is knackered? Mine were old (ca 1986) and never sounded distorted - at least to MY ears![/quote]

There's 'distortion' and there's 'DISTORTION'! Basically all amps produce a degree of distortion but what JL was referring to isn't the type you equate with overdriven guitars/basses that can either be an effect or an amp being mistreated/abused/dying. It's more a level of distortion that is very subtle and is produced as a result of the components used in the construction. Better quality amps use purer components that produce less distortion and newer equipment is generally better again. The form of distortion JL refers to is inherent in all amps and generally manifests itself as a softening of the tone which many of us like.

[Conan]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='694423' date='Dec 27 2009, 06:04 PM']There's 'distortion' and there's 'DISTORTION'! Basically all amps produce a degree of distortion but what JL was referring to isn't the type you equate with overdriven guitars/basses that can either be an effect or an amp being mistreated/abused/dying. It's more a level of distortion that is very subtle and is produced as a result of the components used in the construction. Better quality amps use purer components that produce less distortion and newer equipment is generally better again. The form of distortion JL refers to is inherent in all amps and generally manifests itself as a softening of the tone which many of us like.[/quote]

Yeah, I understand that. I always thought that Trace gear WAS at the top end of the market, and would therefore be constructed from quality components. It certainly was when I bought it!

All that stuff about THD makes sense too, I was just kinda surprised to hear TE gear described as "distorted" in comparison to other amplification. Is that the case do you think? And if so, which manufacturer is regarded as producing the "least distorted" gear at the mo? Jack's comments would suggest that GK make less-distorting gear than Trace? Opinions?

Not that I'm against a certain degree of "warm and fuzzy" distortion you understand!!

[Conan]

I was hoping for a few more opinions than this.... but hey, it is Christmas!

[Conan]

Feel as though I'm talking to myself here, but whatever!!

Been looking at a Warwick WCA211 2x10 8 ohm cab to sit on top of the Ampeg 1x15.

Any thoughts? Anyone got one of these? Great name, but what's the sound like?

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Conan' post='695225' date='Dec 28 2009, 10:27 PM']Feel as though I'm talking to myself here, but whatever!!

Been looking at a Warwick WCA211 2x10 8 ohm cab to sit on top of the Ampeg 1x15.

Any thoughts? Anyone got one of these? Great name, but what's the sound like?[/quote]

They might not agree with eachother sound wise. If you don't like the sound of the cab you have, get a different cab instead. If you do like the sound of it, get another the same.

[JTUK]

not fan of mix and match cabs... use the same sort of model from the same maker, IMO.
You can mix speaker sizes if they do the job.

Not a fan of Ampeg cabs myself but if you like the 15 you have, then try some Ampeg 10's with it.

Re Neo's..I use them and they upgraded the sound and rating in my cab. I use Delta 2510's instead of the makers option and they are better, IMV.
I think Neo's can work in a decent cab made properly and with good materials. You don't get the ultimate weight save here, but I think this is the way to go for me.. 40lbs per cab is an easy carry.

Or, go with what you know and get back to TE.. decent enough gear if you like the sound and the 2nd marker is reasonable

[Conan]

[quote name='JTUK' post='695454' date='Dec 29 2009, 10:51 AM']Not a fan of Ampeg cabs myself...[/quote]

That's cool. Any particular reason? The tone? The output? The mass?

I ask purely out of interest (and noseyness!!).

[Conan]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='695229' date='Dec 28 2009, 10:30 PM']If you don't like the sound of the cab you have, get a different cab instead. If you do like the sound of it, get another the same.[/quote]

Sounds logical! Thing is, I won't know what other cabs sound like until I try them all.... which is why I was kind of hoping for some advice about which ones are "best" - but it seems that there are far to many variables and personal preferences involved for there to be a simple "best" option! Which is kind of what I feared in the first place!

Out of interest, what do you mean by "might not agree sound-wise"? I understand that cabs made by different manufacturers may sound rather different, but can they be so incompatible?

[JTUK]

sure, no problem. Never liked any Ampeg cabs I have used, which were many 8x10's or the 1x15/4x10 hybrid type thing, ie, it wasn't two cabs, and stacked just like the 8x10 in a single enclosure

I thought the chassis were poor for such an iconic rig and all the units I used ..which may well have been well used as they were rental..did not cope well with the Ampeg head. On a large stage, I recall none of the cabs handing a big valve Ampeg head at a loud stage volume, so if your stage monitoring wasn't great or they didn't give you enough monitor mixes to put the bass through the side-fills and therefore your amp had to do most of the work, then the cabs weren't that great.

And then, when I was last looking for a rig, Ampeg SVT11 was an option but the cabs were so underpowered, a 4x10 was 240 watts when most other makers 4x10's were 400watts plus...
And then, after using Turbosound stage monitoring on some gigs, I KNEW I needed/wanted a fuller range sound, hence SWR or Eden at the time.
So from that historical POV, I have never been a fan of the Ampeg cabs..

Now, if they have upped their game these last few years, then fair enough, my experience of them could be a bit dated.

[Conan]

[quote name='JTUK' post='695812' date='Dec 29 2009, 06:38 PM']sure, no problem. Never liked any Ampeg cabs I have used....... I have never been a fan of the Ampeg cabs..

Now, if they have upped their game these last few years, then fair enough, my experience of them could be a bit dated.[/quote]

Thanks for that. I hear what you are saying. I think!

So the amps are OK then? Might I be onto a good thing by hanging onto the SVT200-T (which seems to get good reviews and is apparently quite collectable) and moving the 115 on? I could then put the cash towards a cab or pair of cabs with higher power handling...

This is proving to be more complicated than I thought! I sort of anticipated two types of response really - one saying "Ampeg is great gear! Keep what you've got and add another Ampeg cab!", and the other saying "Ampeg is crap - sell it on and get a ([i]insert favourite brand here[/i]) instead!!".

Oh well. Still, its interesting hearing people's experiences and opinions!

[Hamster]

Maybe you could give an idea about your budget?

Personally, I'd go for one of these - [url="http://www.andertons.co.uk/BassGuitarAmps/pid16192/cid561/MarkBassLittleMarkTube800BassHead.asp"]http://www.andertons.co.uk/BassGuitarAmps/...800BassHead.asp[/url]



Or one of these - [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Genz_Benz_Heads_STL9.html"]http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_sp...Heads_STL9.html[/url]



And two of these - [url="http://barefacedbass.com/compact.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/compact.htm[/url]




A very light and compact rig that will blow your trousers off

[bassmansky]

if you liked the trace sound then go back to it.Always lots of s/h trace gear for sale on here or evil bay!Only experience with ampeg ive had is the 4x10he cab.didnt like the sound of it,thought it was quiet and a bit dull.just my opinion.

[Conan]

The Trace stack was great when I was in my twenties and even thirties, but now I'm into my forties it's just too damn heavy and bulky!! If I add to the Ampeg collection with another big heavy cab I will be back to square one!

I must admit that I like the look and rep of the BareFaced Big One.... Anyone advise me as to how well it would partner the SVT200-T? Or would I be better with a more modern head?

The MarkBass and GB ones are highly rated but I can't help thinking that they are so small that they just look a bit silly perched on top of a big cab!!

[Conan]

[quote name='Hamster' post='695857' date='Dec 29 2009, 07:40 PM']Maybe you could give an idea about your budget?[/quote]

That kind of depends on which route I decide to take! There are many options, but if I decided to shift the Ampeg gear and I can move my two basses (and get good prices for everything!), I could be looking at having about a grand to spend...

However, it doesn't seem to be much of a seller's market at the moment so I'm not holding my breath!

If I sold the two basses, even for moderate prices and the ampeg 115, I could probably justify the Big One... must get myself on the BareFaced list to have a try of one of their cabs!

[chris_b]

I think you should be worrying about your sound after you've played live a few times.

Your cheapest move would be to either get another Ampeg 115 or a 210. I have gigged and seen many players using an Ampeg 115 with the Ampeg 210 on top. That'll get you a great classic Ampeg sound and add a little punch to your tone. Many players happily never get further than this.

On the other hand you could start an upgrade path by adding another cab and then gradually replacing your old stuff, piece by piece. There are several BC members in Newcastle playing great gear that you should hear, Bergantino, Aguilar and Barefacedbass.

Edited December 30, 2009 by chris_b

[warwickhunt]

I'm based not far from the Toon and I'm using Aguilar 1x12 cabs but unfortunately I don't have any gigs coming up in or near the city centre, so it'd be tricky for you to hear what is possible with a pair of 1x12's and no PA support (I'm assuming that's the style of gig you'll be doing initially). My next nearest gig to you is in Blyth in mid January if that is any good?

Edited December 30, 2009 by warwickhunt

[Conan]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='696322' date='Dec 30 2009, 01:50 PM']I'm based not far from the Toon and I'm using Aguilar 1x12 cabs but unfortunately I don't have any gigs coming up in or near the city centre, so it'd be tricky for you to hear what is possible with a pair of 1x12's and no PA support (I'm assuming that's the style of gig you'll be doing initially). My next nearest gig to you is in Blyth in mid January if that is any good? [/quote]

Blyth is OK - I'm in West Moor BTW, I only put "The Toon" as its a reference point to people from anywhere outside the area! What kind of stuff does your band play?

[JTUK]

I've used the Ampegs pre's which have a valve in them, with power amps, which was OK..and I've used the big Valve heads which does the Ampeg sound. None of them was convincing to my ears and the valve heads are very heavy.
But..I can understand why people want them. I put them in the same bracket as Mesa, but the Mesa cabs are better IMV.

If weight is an issue, then you are going to have to change most, if not all, you have.

If you like the amp, then that may be the last to go.
Markbass amps are very good for the size, IMV, the cabs less so.
Cab-wise, the DB12 might suit the Ampeg, but you'll need two.

Best suggestions so far, IMV..are gig what you have and then see what, if any, short comings you find you have and if you need a cab and are happy with the Ampeg 15, then add the same model type in a 2x10.

Current fave combinations appear to be a Markbass head with 12" cabs ( not Markbass ) which will be small and light and punchy.

[51m0n]

If you can do it pop over to bassdirect and see Mark (he's poptart on this forum - pm him)

bassdirect has a staggering array of great gear (really he's got some simply phenominal gear that will make your old Trace rig sound very very average)

He's a top bloke who will let you mull for a couple of hours and see what suits you, he really really knows his stuff too.

Until you've done that you're really just playing a guessing game IMO....