Drum N Bass/Dubstep

[DanOwens]

I very rarely use delay, Shep. On my DL4 I have a simple tape delay, a heavy modulated delay and the Line 6 Sweep Delay.

How/why do you use it so extensively?

Dan

[wotnwhy]

I've been thinking about midi for a long time now. But the price for a Roland floor unit has been enough to put me off so far!

If i did go midi, it would be with the aim of using virtual synths run off a computer, so what i'd like to know is; Would something like the GK3B pickup and a midi interface be sufficiant for this? My assumption being that the pickup outputs a midi signal, or does it send out as something else and gets converted once in the floor unit?

If it's the latter (which i guess it is, otherwise no-one would buy the floor unit..), are there any other options that wont cost several hundred squid???

[cheddatom]

I watched some of the videos recommended in here last night. Some cool bass sounds!! I don't really have any synth pedals as such, but I reckon I can do a good portion of those sounds. The moog LPF - in what way is it better than a wah? And when you're using LFOs to control it, is that from a tap tempo button?

Maybe not all wahs are like this, but on my board I have a low frequency line with some comp and OD, and then a high frequency line with my wah probe on. With the wah probe completely closed, I get no hi-mids from the high frequncy line, which is effectively a LPF to me. I can then bring them in slowly, or I can wah. I might have some modulation and probably dirt and pitch shifting going on in the high frequency line at the same time.

Am I being stupid?

[urb]

Hey guys - I think I've finally found the thread I've been looking for!

I love all the analogue stuff but I'm kind of loathed to start shelling out for yards of pedals - so I'm going the other route and doing stuff via Ableton and my laptop - with some pedals as well - any thoughts on the quality virtual versus analogue effects - latency issues aside... your thoughts would be very welcome indeed.

Thanks

Mike

[DanOwens]

[quote name='wotnwhy' post='1112056' date='Feb 2 2011, 09:44 AM']My assumption being that the pickup outputs a midi signal, or does it send out as something else and gets converted once in the floor unit?[/quote]

The pickup is effectively 6 different normal guitar pickups (one for each string - guitar based tech). This signal is fed down a 13-pin cable to your converter that then uses the pickup signal and turns it into MIDI data. Once you have MIDI data, you can trigger any MIDI device, literally, software synths (Ableton), keyboards (MicroKorg) or rack-mounted (Novation BassStation), it doesn't matter. They all use the same MIDI data and all will respond equally to your setup. The latency variable is within the converter (and to a certain degree, the pickup although drastically less so).



[quote name='cheddatom' post='1112114' date='Feb 2 2011, 10:40 AM']in what way is it better than a wah? And when you're using LFOs to control it, is that from a tap tempo button?[/quote]

Isn't a wah a band-pass, rather than a low-pass? The reason you're getting no high mids is (If I understand correctly) because the wah's frequency range goes lower than what you're feeding it. And personally, I'm MIDI sync'd with most of my set-up but I do use tap-tempo where I've not got round to MIDI-sync'ing.



[quote name='urb' post='1112125' date='Feb 2 2011, 10:53 AM']any thoughts on the quality virtual versus analogue effects - latency issues aside... your thoughts would be very welcome indeed.[/quote]

Personally, I really do rely on the MIDI sound to get controlled and complex sub-bass type sounds but I can do many other interesting sounds via audio-processing (I refer to it as this rather than 'analogue' because some of the pedals I use are digital in some way). An OC2, Fuzz and LPF are great for *that* bass synth sound, but on electronic records the sounds are much more complex than that. Once you start trying to make a varied palette of sounds using pedals, your setup does get very long and complicated. Personally, I'd get my hands on a Line 6 M13 if you're thinking about going down the pedal route as the synths are very interesting, the octave sounds pretty good and the delays and reverbs are immense.

For MIDI, a GK3b and a Axon AX101 are the best place to start (IMO). If you're planning on using it with softsynths in the studio, its as clean as you make it in post production anyway.

Dan

[wotnwhy]

[quote name='DanOwens' post='1112146' date='Feb 2 2011, 11:15 AM']*snip* signal is fed down a 13-pin cable to [b]your converter[/b] that then uses the pickup signal and turns it into MIDI *snip*[/quote]

This is where i'm lost. What options are there?

[cheddatom]

[quote name='DanOwens' post='1112146' date='Feb 2 2011, 11:15 AM']Isn't a wah a band-pass, rather than a low-pass? The reason you're getting no high mids is (If I understand correctly) because the wah's frequency range goes lower than what you're feeding it. And personally, I'm MIDI sync'd with most of my set-up but I do use tap-tempo where I've not got round to MIDI-sync'ing.[/quote]

yeh, good point. So it's the fact there's a hi pass on the line with the wah that makes it sound like that.

Some of the wahs on the XP-100 are also really "subby" which can be used for these sorts of sounds.

[DanOwens]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='1112179' date='Feb 2 2011, 11:50 AM']yeh, good point. So it's the fact there's a hi pass on the line with the wah that makes it sound like that.

Some of the wahs on the XP-100 are also really "subby" which can be used for these sorts of sounds.[/quote]

That's my thinking (Re Hi-Pass).

Also, some of the XP-100 wahs may indeed be LPFs.


[quote name='wotnwhy' post='1112171' date='Feb 2 2011, 11:44 AM']This is where i'm lost. What options are there?[/quote]

Read my blog post [url="http://mrdfowens.tumblr.com/post/2623154214/thats-not-music-its-just-ones-and-zeros"]HERE [/url]about MIDI conversion. I list pretty much every converter.

In some other posts I go into some detail regarding synthesis too. Worth a read for anyone considering delving into this stuff.

Dan

PS. Currently writing my post on routing to explain my signal path:

[pantherairsoft]

[quote name='DanOwens' post='1111995' date='Feb 2 2011, 08:33 AM']I very rarely use delay, Shep. On my DL4 I have a simple tape delay, a heavy modulated delay and the Line 6 Sweep Delay.

How/why do you use it so extensively?

Dan[/quote]

I use few types of delay in various lengths from short reverb type delays to longer modulation ones. I find tones to be realistically synth like if they do now instantly decay. Obviously at times that's why you want, but to be able to release a note and have it fade, or quietly repeat adds lots and lots of depth.

It also means I can use both sides of my effects set up via an LS2, playing from channel a and swapping to b as the first sound delays over the too of it, giving the effect of 2 instruments overlapping... Which is a much more 'synth' than 'bass' characteristic.

About 50% of the tracks we play are only achievable due to delay creating the dynamics. Sure it isn't for everyone, but for me it's a mainstay of my sound

Shep

[cheddatom]

I wish I was free on Friday! I'm very interested in the sounds you're getting

[pantherairsoft]

Well if you can't make it Friday (we're on about 11), then a couple of weeks later we'll have a 'real' recording. The prospect of doing an EP with a damn good engineer (Johnny Carter/Ex-Pitchshifter) again and capurting how we really sound rather than these horrid 'mic in a room' demo's is pretty exciting.

Shep

[cheddatom]

I'm working on my band's new album Friday night which is why I can't make it. I'll look forward to the recordings then! I'd quite like to try recording some of this stuff myself actually. Let me know if you ever fancy some free demos, I have a fairly nice recording set-up coming on (although my mixing's coming on slower!!).

[gnasher1993]

[quote name='urb' post='1112125' date='Feb 2 2011, 10:53 AM']Hey guys - I think I've finally found the thread I've been looking for!

I love all the analogue stuff but I'm kind of loathed to start shelling out for yards of pedals - so I'm going the other route and doing stuff via Ableton and my laptop - with some pedals as well - any thoughts on the quality virtual versus analogue effects - latency issues aside... your thoughts would be very welcome indeed.

Thanks

Mike[/quote]

Ableton is perfect for creating dubstep bass! Check out this video: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcMtxpUAKcQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcMtxpUAKcQ[/url]

[pantherairsoft]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='1112380' date='Feb 2 2011, 01:39 PM']I'm working on my band's new album Friday night which is why I can't make it. I'll look forward to the recordings then! I'd quite like to try recording some of this stuff myself actually. Let me know if you ever fancy some free demos, I have a fairly nice recording set-up coming on (although my mixing's coming on slower!!).[/quote]

Never turn down the opportunity for free recording - we shall arrange something!

[cheddatom]

cool, well i'm just an hour or so up the road, just send me a PM some time.

[phil.i.stein]

my ramblings on Sheps' first gig here..

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=118900&pid=1116401&st=0&#entry1116401"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...p;#entry1116401[/url]

[pantherairsoft]

Thanks Si, your the man!

A few snips from last night that friends took, not stunning, but through decent Hi Fi speakers you get a bit of the sub etc…

[url="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Our%20Helical%20Mind/?action=view&current=SAM_1325.mp4"]http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pant...nt=SAM_1325.mp4[/url]
[url="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Our%20Helical%20Mind/?action=view&current=SAM_1326.mp4"]http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pant...nt=SAM_1326.mp4[/url]
[url="http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pantherairsoft/Our%20Helical%20Mind/?action=view&current=SAM_1330.mp4"]http://s61.photobucket.com/albums/h44/pant...nt=SAM_1330.mp4[/url]


Shep

[phil.i.stein]

just seen this on TB. although it is not the finished article, it is an interesting concept.

an expression pedal to control the rate/depth would be a good addition. worth keeping an eye on at least.

[url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f36/740188-copilot-fx-dubscope.html"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f36/740188-c...x-dubscope.html[/url]

[DanOwens]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1123572' date='Feb 11 2011, 09:26 AM']just seen this on TB. although it is not the finished article, it is an interesting concept.[/quote]

The youtube vid does look interesting.

Dan

[phil.i.stein]

posted in the 'what are you listening to' thread, but what the hell, they are worth it..



check out their other vids aswell..

Edited February 13, 2011 by phil.i.stein

[phil.i.stein]

for fear of thread death..



nothing to do with bass guitar as such, but.. f*** it. bass rules. make sure you crank it up.

Edited February 18, 2011 by phil.i.stein

[pantherairsoft]

This thread will never die!!!!

Just finished in the studio recording our EP. Gone great. Johnny Carter (Pitchshifter) is a slave driver of an engineer but the results are looking awesome. Just the final mix to do. Was a great experience for learning how my board works under the microscope though, very useful.

Task for the weekend - update the firmware on my MP-201... Sweet!

Actually after the studio experience I'm considering a Line 6 M9 to replace a number of pedals on the board, thinking if can do the job of my chorus, phaser, at least 1 dirt pedal, Trem (maybe ring mod) and arpeggiator (anyone want to comment on how good the arpeggiator is on the M9 (I currently use a Boss SL-20).

Thoughts...?

Shep

[phil.i.stein]

[quote name='pantherairsoft' post='1132861' date='Feb 18 2011, 10:16 PM']Thoughts...?

Shep[/quote]
thoughts..

i want to hear them there results..

si

[xgsjx]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1132894' date='Feb 18 2011, 11:13 PM']thoughts..

i want to hear them there results..

si[/quote]
Same here.

Wouldn't mind knowing more of the M9 & M13 myself as they've recently been brought to my attention.

[pantherairsoft]

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1132894' date='Feb 18 2011, 11:13 PM']thoughts..

i want to hear them there results..

si[/quote]

I'll make sure I give you a sneak preview. Somehow 2 of the 3 tracks have a real 'Prodigy' vibe going on, which is an influence we've never considered or heard in the music before. Interesting.

[quote name='xgsjx' post='1132903' date='Feb 18 2011, 11:20 PM']Same here.

Wouldn't mind knowing more of the M9 & M13 myself as they've recently been brought to my attention.[/quote]

I've played with the M9 a bit and though the modulation section was great, as well as the delay and reverb. I'm interested to see if it can replace 5 or 6 parts of my board effectively which will help reduce the massive distance of cabling on the board as well as reduce the number of power supplies etc...