Full circle with cabinets and amps

[Conan]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='701610' date='Jan 5 2010, 02:08 PM']At least when we buy gear we're usually [i]changing [/i]it. I'd rather frequently change my gear than continuously accumulate it like most guitarists seem to.[/quote]

Hmmmmm. Maybe. But looking at the equipment lists of some BC members, I'm not so sure!

[MythSte]

[quote name='Raggy' post='701479' date='Jan 5 2010, 12:31 PM']C'mon Stephen, what have you getting to pair with your Vintage?????[/quote]

All in good time mon ami!

[mcgraham]

[quote]Absolutely! I love looking for and playing new gear - just a shame my 'pocket' isn't quote deep enough to hang on to all my favourites[/quote]
+1 Although I've found my favourite rig in my Bergantino IP/EX stack. It sounds phenomenally huge when coupled together, puts out beautiful tone and fills even massive venues (I did a wedding gig at the Albert Hall in Nottingham and anyone who's been in there will know it's blooming huge venue - the stack positively filled the place without even getting anywhere near half volume).

Sadly, I'm in love with In-ear monitoring at the moment and find this is a better solution than lugging amps around when I have PA support.

[Dood]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='701754' date='Jan 5 2010, 03:47 PM']+1 Although I've found my favourite rig in my Bergantino IP/EX stack. It sounds phenomenally huge when coupled together, puts out beautiful tone and fills even massive venues (I did a wedding gig at the Albert Hall in Nottingham and anyone who's been in there will know it's blooming huge venue - the stack positively filled the place without even getting anywhere near half volume).

Sadly, I'm in love with In-ear monitoring at the moment and find this is a better solution than lugging amps around when I have PA support.[/quote]


I've a massive thumbs up for modular 'active speakers'. I'd like to try out the IP range to see how it compares to my ISP active cab. I'd love to see more companies catch on to this way of thinking - especially as a musician could turn up to a gig with a bass, a tuner, a preamp pedal (such as a sansamp) and a cab. Makes sense to me!

[mcgraham]

That was more or less the number one thing that appealled to me about the IP concept. bass + active cab... done!

I couldn't stomach the RRP and brand new retail price through.

[Dood]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='701790' date='Jan 5 2010, 04:06 PM']I couldn't stomach the RRP and brand new retail price through.[/quote]

Yeah, pretty much the cost of a whole new rig inside one small box is a bit much to cough up at retail!

[mcgraham]

I had actually resigned myself to never getting one, but then a mint second hand IP cab came up on for the same moola that I'd paid for my Schroeder 1210L and Acoustic Image Clarus... no brainer really!

Few months later the EX112 came up for sale at less than what I paid for my Schroeder 1210L on its own... yet another no-brainer.

Result? Complete Berg IP rig for (I believe) less than half price... not to mention covers for both!

God bless Bass Chat...

[Dood]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='701806' date='Jan 5 2010, 04:17 PM']I had actually resigned myself to never getting one, but then a mint second hand IP cab came up on for the same moola that I'd paid for my Schroeder 1210L and Acoustic Image Clarus... no brainer really!

Few months later the EX112 came up for sale at less than what I paid for my Schroeder 1210L on its own... yet another no-brainer.

Result? Complete Berg IP rig for (I believe) less than half price... not to mention covers for both!

God bless Bass Chat...[/quote]


God Bless BassChat, sometimes - I hate BassChat - because this forum knows how to empty my wallet fast!! Nice!!!

[mcgraham]

That could be a problem yes...

I tend to spend quite a while deciding what I want, and then I bide my time til it turns up. The second hand market doesn't favour the impatient.

[Flanker]

I've tried everything too and have been frustrated by the lack of punch of my Puma1000. I was about to give up but a visit to BassDirect and trying everything Mark has !(Sorry!) led me to this..........



I tried the Berg with the TC heads (all of them) but it sounded best through my Puma, much to my relief really.My reservation about getting an NV cab has always been the weight/size but the castors help a lot and the tone is unmatched by any cab or combination of cabs I have tried/owned.

This combination really provides a huge punchy sound - fantastic - can't wait to gig it!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Flanker' post='702203' date='Jan 5 2010, 10:05 PM']I've tried everything too and have been frustrated by the lack of punch of my Puma1000. I was about to give up but a visit to BassDirect and trying everything Mark has !(Sorry!) led me to this..........



I tried the Berg with the TC heads (all of them) but it sounded best through my Puma, much to my relief really.My reservation about getting an NV cab has always been the weight/size but the castors help a lot and the tone is unmatched by any cab or combination of cabs I have tried/owned.

This combination really provides a huge punchy sound - fantastic - can't wait to gig it![/quote]

Wow!

New colour on the Berg logo?

Seriously would love an NV cab but I dont have the room or a car it will fit in

It would work perfect with my RH450 or Orange.

[mcgraham]

*gasp* New colour Berg logo?! I simply must have it!

</talkbass fanboy impression>

[MythSte]

Pft, the old one was easier to see from a distance

</miserable get basschatboy>

[chris_b]

[quote name='Conan' post='701550' date='Jan 5 2010, 01:24 PM']....There are some players for whom tone is EVERYTHING, and they will not compromise anything to get it (or their version of it).

Others, who may have injuries, be very weedy or just be fed up with humping 50kg+ boxes about; will choose gear based purely on MASS (not weight!! Unless you are referring to the weight in newtons! ) and are prepared to sacrifice a certain amount of tone to do so....[/quote]
I don't agree. There seems to be a myth starting that light cabs compromise your tone.

All my cabs sound fantastic, they are lightweight and I have made no compromises or sacrificed any tone.

[Kiwi]

My 2p:

Its a bit difficult for anyone (including myself) to draw definitive conclusions on a bit of kit unless its been tried in a variety of environments. On stage acoustics count for a lot in my experience. Also getting the right sound is as much about getting the recipe of wood, construction, electronics and hardware right in the bass and then bass vs amp, signal chain and speakers as anything. If the bass isn't 100% then maybe pairing it with a rig with the right colouring could be worth doing. Markbass rigs make jazz basses sound fantastic but suck with Smiths and Shukers and I couldn't buy an amp just for one bass.

My advice is get the bass sounding right first. The more work you can do with the instrument, the less you have to do with the amp, signal chain and speaker. Its the path I've more or less followed. Also, there are some times on stage when nothing you ever do will sound 'right' so its worth taking the performance of the backline with a pinch of salt. In my book, the bigger the stage, the better the acoustics due to a lack of reflecting surfaces close by.

After I found a bass that was 80% of the way there, the final tweak was changing the pickups. That meant I could plug it into any old amp and know that the essentials of I wanted to hear would be there even if I wasn't going to get everything.

Alternatively, consider a parametric eq. perhaps? Sound engineers use them and I think they're the ultimate for tone tweaking. I have an old TL Audio 5013 valve parametric eq which is awesome for nailing specific frequencies that are getting pointy or smothered. I'm also about to install a 3 band parametric eq by Klaus Noll in one of my Spectors and will be doing an A/B against the other Spector which has a East MM/U-Retro. The 3 band para isn't any more difficult to operate than a sweep filter based eq and perhaps is easier to visualise.

However as Mcgraham says, if you use IEM's then you cut out two variables (the speakers and stage acoustics). Not to mention the benefits of an obscene level of portability.

[Anders]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='701622' date='Jan 5 2010, 04:16 PM']I must admit some of the really lightweight amps do lack the tone...but thats just me. I like a big powerful vintage rock tone, but I also like the smooth fast and warm Markbass tone....as it has massive lows with such tiny amp.

The RH450 is the closest Ive ever heard a micro sound like a tube amp. So much I made myself skint to buy one. But, its not hugely light....its about 10lbs, but it feels substantial. Some of these micros probably weigh less than a large effects pedal. Like the obsession with stupidy small phones, it seems the market balanced out with a larger size but better features (iphone, etc etc).

I think some of the 'inaccuracies' and 'colour' that certain cabinets add actually really make a lovely tone. Its finding one you like. I always liked the 90s Trace cabs...they arent perfect...but I like the sound. Not tested the latest ones....but I imagine I will still like them.

I think the obsession with lightweight and complete accuracy/no colour of tone, actually led me to realise thats not for everyone. I tried it...and didnt really see the massive deal with it. Maybe it because of the tones I like, and the music I listen to.

For instance, Ive always wanted a Warwick, but I tried one 'on', as well as a Spector, and they just do not suit me. Im an idiot because I cant see past the vintage style of basses.

Each to their own though. Thats the fun![/quote]
Very well put!
I agree 100%.
Lets say you have the perfect bass that suits you like a glove when playing.You might often need an amp and cab that together with the bass makes the sound you are really after.
All three makes the colour or maybe just two.(Or if youre really lucky,just the bass,and you are happy to play through monitors or whatever.)
The inaccuracies makes the colouring.Maybe a little bit more of a certain frequency or frequescies combined with a cab that projects the sound the way you like,makes the difference.
Look at the Marshall JCM800 2x15 cab for instance,or Ampeg SVT.Maybe not so many manufacturers would build something like that today because they would find it ineffective for instance.
And yet they have tons of fans.

[mcgraham]

+1 That's something a lot of people forget about - the signal chain starts with the bass. If your bass doesn't have a good fundamental sound (I'm referring to the 'tone'), then you're in a bad starting position and you may be frustrated that you don't get a good sound from your total setup.

A lot of people (I'd say) don't really know what their bass actually sounds like. Try plugging into a PA desk through reference monitors or headphones and listen to how it sounds... also try playing along to a backing track to hear how it sits in the mix. You'll hear a better representation of what your bass actually sounds like before it hits an amp and cab.

EDIT: That last paragraph was a general 'one can do this' suggestion rather than being directed at anyone that has posted in this thread

Edited January 6, 2010 by mcgraham

[Conan]

[quote name='chris_b' post='702376' date='Jan 6 2010, 01:00 AM']I don't agree. There seems to be a myth starting that light cabs compromise your tone.[/quote]

I'm not sure it can be accurately described as a "myth" if some experienced players who have started on "traditional" gear, then moved to lightweight cabs, move back to the originals because they felt that the tone was better?

I'm not saying I agree with them as I have no experience of lightweight cabs - but that's not to say that I disbelieve them either! The human ear is very subjective, so it's what each of us like as individuals that counts most I would have thought.

Personally, I can't really be @rsed with all that trying stuff out as I have very limited time. I was hoping that there would be a unanimous "buy one of these!" response to my questions about amplification, but clearly that expectation was unrealistic and naive on my part! I've had some great advice on here, but I'm not sure I'm really any nearer to making a decision about what I want!

So I guess I will be sticking with my Ampeg set-up for a while!

[mcgraham]

If you've got something you're reasonably happy with then there shouldn't really be any rush. I suggest just read and learn in the interim, try and figure out what might suit you so that you are reasonably certain about what you at least want to try, or even buy if it came up at the right price on BC or the like.

Out of interest, what are you looking for?

[Conan]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='702819' date='Jan 6 2010, 01:51 PM']Out of interest, what are you looking for?[/quote]

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=71639&st=0&start=0"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...t=0&start=0[/url]

In other words - I'm not really sure, and open to advice! A couple of options that I have been thinking about (depending on finance considerations!) are the BareFaced Big One and the TC RH450. Not necessarily in tandem, as I quite like the idea of the 450 paired with the TC speakers in a "skinny tower of sound" style o' thing!

Unless I can sell a couple of basses, I will probably be looking at second-hand - which seems to pretty much rule out the TC option as they are so new and nobody who has one wants to sell it!!

[mcgraham]

Ah. I can see why the responses were so varied.

Unfortunately, if you really don't know what you are objectively looking for, I reckon you just need to get yourself along to somewhere with a reasonable stock of amplification and try some stuff out with your own bass. Bass Direct is great for checking these sorts of things out. Mark is also very knowledgable about bass gear and PA alike, so he will certainly be able to give you some no-nonsense advice about what would suit your style and your pocket.

Mark

[Conan]

[quote name='mcgraham' post='702940' date='Jan 6 2010, 03:25 PM']Bass Direct is great for checking these sorts of things out. Mark is also very knowledgable about bass gear and PA alike, so he will certainly be able to give you some no-nonsense advice about what would suit your style and your pocket.

Mark[/quote]

Thanks for the advice. Warwick is a bit far for me though!

Never mind - I'll muddle on with the Ampegs for now and keep my eye on the amps&cabs for sale thread here! It's a real eye-opener just seeing what's available these days!!

[mcgraham]

I know. There's so much to choose from. I find the difficulty is separating the true product from the marketing surrounding them. Also, whilst there is a lot of choice, ultimately a lot of the feature sets are the same across different manufacturers - they are just subtly different combinations.

I elected to go down the route of getting a rig that sounds great absolutely flat and as 'genuine' a representation of my bass as possible, and then I can go about adjusting things on the outboard side. That way if something doesn't sound quite right, or if I'm not quite happy with my sound, I've eliminated one of the variables from the chain. It's then easier to identify what isn't doing the job.

Edited January 6, 2010 by mcgraham

[Flanker]

BTW the logo on my BergNV412 doesn't look blue in person, no idea why it appears that way in the picture ?

Edited January 7, 2010 by Flanker

[mcgraham]

Clearly this is a new feature that Jim Bergantino is adding to his cabs. This hidden blue background actually contributes to the tone of the cab to enhance its warmth and clarity... it even helps to reduce the weight!




Honest!

Edited January 7, 2010 by mcgraham