How much influence do your band mates have on your bass playing?

[Cat Burrito]

Just curious really... I've always written my own basslines when working in originals bands. A couple of bands I've worked in the past have really liked the basslines to be kept very simple and I've even had to battle to justify anything outside the root note on a couple of occasions. Usually I get complete creative freedom but this isn't always the case. I've also had times in the studio where band members have liked something I've "just come up" when it actual fact it's the exact same line I've been playing for the last six months! I guess good bass playing just blends into the mix

Just curious as to what others experiences are.

I'd add also that it depends if you play jazz or funk I'd expect this to be less likely to happen but reckon there are lots of rock, blues and country players who know what I'm talking about

[Maverick]

For my 'main' band, our guitarist writes our songs, and is a competent bassist, so often has 'suggestions' for me to try, but as time has gone on I've got more confident about saying no and doing my own thing, but he generally prefers I keep things fairly simple and most of the time I'm fairly happy to do so. I was the band's second bassist, but I got quite a bit of freedom with the old songs when I joined, ironically more than I sometimes get now actually!

My other band is a metal band and I get quite a lot of freedom there. Guitarist writes the riffs and I usually go along with them, but if he goes too fast or I fancy doing something else I generally just go for it and most of the time it works, I've got a couple of cool basslines that kind of go across the riff.

Edited January 5, 2010 by Maverick

[SteveK]

IME the better bands are those where each member is able to make suggestions to other members.This works well...to a point!..

...[i][b]some[/b][/i] musicians really don't take too kindly to being told what to play.

My current band (25 years and counting) has an unofficial policy of all chipping in with suggestions, and [i][b]all[/b][/i] suggestions are tried. The boss makes the ultimate decision.

[skankdelvar]

About ten years ago, a guitarist asked me to change a riff slightly. This was an improvement on the original and I happily complied.

Then again, I mostly play quarter note roots in one of three keys, so not much to take issue with, I s'pose.

[Cat Burrito]

Good point SteveK and I've worked in groups who adopt this approach. Very healthy. My point in the original post is to do with stuff getting shot down in the embryonic stages before anything has an opportunity to bed in.

[EssentialTension]

Given that, IMHO, a band is not (or at least ought not to be) merely a collection of individuals doing whatever they individually want, I'd expect to be influenced by my band mates in one or other of two ways.

Either:
(1) The band is a kind of collective working together cooperatively in which case I'd expect input from the others on what I'm playing and similarly I would comment on what they play. What happens in the end is a result of working together cooperatively.

Or:
(2) The band has a musical director who is in charge and may ask (or even tell) people to play a particular line or in a particular way.

There may be some bands where there is some overlap between (1) and (2).

[Tait]

my band tends to be that whoever writes the song comes up with a chord sequence or riff, shows the rest of the band, and then we all leave each other to it. we'll chip in and make suggestions, but usually its only something minor and the vast majority of the time we'll all either agree it sounds better or it sounds worse, and tbh i think if there was ever something where we disagreed about whether it sounds better or worse, it'd be the person playing that part's choice. eventually as we play the song more and more we'll realise when a bit doesnt sound right and sort it out, and eventually we have a decent song.

[chris_b]

I've played in dictatorships and been left to sort myself out. Both can work but I prefer the latter! I would always suggest ideas even if there's no chance of them being taken up! I think it's everyone's job to try to make every number as good as it can be.

It's very different when you are depping. You can get the "This is how we want it" treatment, so as they are paying they get what they want.

[acidbass]

[quote name='chris_b' post='702387' date='Jan 6 2010, 01:36 AM']It's very different when you are depping. You can get the "This is how we want it" treatment, so as they are paying they get what they want.[/quote]

This is largely the approach I take, as most of the time I'm a hired goon to perform a certain task the way the MD wants it. I do enjoy playing in another band with a few mates though, where we all have equal input and frequently suggest ideas/comment on each other's playing. It's certainly something I had to develop at the start, being 'told what to do', but generally as I grew up it became easier.

[retroman]

I feel that it is important that everyone has an equal say. I play in a 3 piece, so there are times when playing the root, and following the guitar line works, and then times when a driving bass line really brings life to a song. I took over the bass reigns in this band earlier this year, although I had known the singer guitarist for a lot longer. One song left over from the original line up is very simple guitar wise, so I came up with a driving, funky bass line that uses roots, fifths, and octaves, and it really brings the song to life. But if the other two guys didn't like it, I would have just taken it on the chin.

There are times when the singer guitarist will make suggestions for bass parts, and I am more than happy to try them out, and then again there are times when the drummer chips in, or I'll chip in over guitar/drum parts.

I think that it is very important that everyone has the same goals both musically, and professionally. It helps if you are all good friends too!

I would never want to play in a dictatorship though.......some people might be cool with it, but I can't stand being barked orders sgt major style. Nor can I play stuff that I am not 100% into. I once quit a band through one of those situations

[JTUK]

hardly any whatsoever....


If a studio date, then a completely different ball-game.

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='702277' date='Jan 5 2010, 11:01 PM']Given that, IMHO, a band is not (or at least ought not to be) merely a collection of individuals doing whatever they individually want, I'd expect to be influenced by my band mates in one or other of two ways.

Either:
(1) The band is a kind of collective working together cooperatively in which case I'd expect input from the others on what I'm playing and similarly I would comment on what they play. What happens in the end is a result of working together cooperatively.

Or:
(2) The band has a musical director who is in charge and may ask (or even tell) people to play a particular line or in a particular way.

There may be some bands where there is some overlap between (1) and (2).[/quote]
+1

It's certainly more like (1) in our case but we do have an MD and he has the final say as far as I'm concerned.. Life's too short to get protective and precious over basslines in a covers band!!

[neepheid]

We're a fairly democratic bunch. The main song writing force in the band is the guitarist, and tends to develop ideas by recording demos and giving them to us. Sometimes this demo can be fairly fully realised with some bass ideas in there already or it could be as simple as strummed chords. If there's some bass there then I'll use it as a starting point, but will put my own spin on it. If not then I'm pretty much free to come up with whatever. We perfect it at practice while the singer hums and jots down ideas then she goes off and writes lyrics.

Speaking for myself, I'm only starting this bass playing and being in a band caper, so even though I wouldn't anyway I am in no position to be arrogant about suggestions/criticism. I'm happy to take on board suggestions. I would never claim to like it but I accept when I'm wrong as an opportunity to make something right and learn something. My trying not to be a knob is probably one of the reasons that the band have put up with my lack of knowledge and experience

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='retroman' post='702426' date='Jan 6 2010, 08:13 AM']I would never want to play in a dictatorship though.......some people might be cool with it, but I can't stand being barked orders sgt major style. Nor can I play stuff that I am not 100% into. I once quit a band through one of those situations [/quote]
I wouldn't be into a sgt major act either - unless the pay was excellent - but a good MD, like any good leader who is respected, doesn't have to 'bark orders'.

[Mog]

IMO all suggestions should be tried. If someone thinks they have an idea that will improve a song then give it a go. Sometimes it will work out and some times it wont, you just have to know when to swallow your pride when the drummer finally comes up with a usable bass line!

[cheddatom]

I play bass and drums in two bands with the same frontman. I pretty much do whatever I want, but quite often I get "oh, I wanted it to go like this". Then it's down to me to say I like it or I don't. If I don't want to do it his way it can get a bit awkward. I think I generally back down and go along with it, especially on drums which i'm less experienced on.

I think the generaly rule for our band(s) is: If it's significant (a chord, a route note, a rythm) then any member can comment on it. If it's insignificant (fills and solos basically) then it's down to the individual.

If you dictate to a guitarist how to play a riff for example, it could end up sounding like you playing, rather than him.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='702452' date='Jan 6 2010, 08:57 AM']Life's too short to get protective and precious over basslines in a covers band!![/quote]

Intriguingly, that's the first mention in this thread of covers.

All the bands I've played in were/are strictly covers, no original stuff at all, so there's already a bassline to be played. As long as I play either what was on the original track or something that does the same job, I get no grief from the rest of the band.

The tricky stuff tends to be where it's impossible to replicate the original. For example, the bassline to [i]Long Train Running[/i] is dead simple and surprisingly slow, but in the original mix it's augmented by all sorts of other stuff going on (chiefly percussion) which makes it sound/feel both faster and much funkier than it actually is. It's not uncommon to get a guitarist saying "That's not how it sounds when the Doobies play it".

[jakenewmanbass]

It's an interesting question for what it exposes. I have a complete knowledge of what is going on in the band and can ask any member to play a specific rhythmic figure, or chord voicing and such. What I find is that very few people have enough specific knowledge of what the bass does to be able to make a specific request. I am MD for one project that i'm in and can be very specific about what parts I want the guys to play but it works like this:
Me and drums will generally work out what the basic groove and tempo a song is, what hits we make together, or seperate when and where gear changes (dynamics) take place, and intensity levels are decided.
With Keys and guitar, same with rhythm figures, and then specifically what chords contain (I will always defer to their greater knowledge) how dense chords are and how they complement the melody.
With the vocals we really tend to just discuss how they sit in the frame the band has built. Although I will be more specific about how bv's sit with the lead vocal and treat them like a harmony instrument and so listen for the overall texture with the other harmony instruments.
That is the original project of which I am the band leader, I will ask peoples opinion of my parts and take suggestions gladly.

When it comes to working for others I literally will do what they ask. If it's fully written I just play the pad, if it's sketched with chord charts I will improvise the best song serving line I can muster and if I'm busking... well there isn't time other than a quick it's this or that type of feel before we're off.
When you come across band leaders arrangers or score writers that have a real innate sense of appropriate parts for the bass it's a joy because it just drips off the page.
Last year I played for violinist David Garrett and the arrangements were done by a guitarist/conductor who really knows his stuff and his parts (because he understands the way strings work) were idiomatically nothing short of brilliant.

Sometimes you come across parts that are so badly written that you have to read ahead as much as you can take the basic sequence movement from the root notes of the chord and rearrange the part whilst playing it... this is called ahem 'interpretation'

[bassace]

Good post. Mostly I just get on with the bass line (all my gigs are jazz ones). Occasionally the guitarist will put me straight on a root and sometimes the leader will tell me I'm a bit loud - but that's genarally because I'm playing through my backline and he stands in front of me. I wish that sometimes I could get some constructive criticism on a gig.

[Apex]

Like Happy Jack, I find the experience from a covers band rather different in that we are all starting off from someone else's version. Mostly this fits together pretty well but we do occasionally have individuals who step outside the original, which crates a bit of discussion on how well that works and what others may need to do to work with it.

It's much easier when it's not your own part involved! Unless it's the drummer who listens to every thing about 'trying it slower' then speeds back up by the end of the first line because he prefers it that way!

Any advice on how to maintain tempo with the bass against a large Premier kit going full pelt would be appreciated!!

Edited January 6, 2010 by Apex

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Apex' post='702616' date='Jan 6 2010, 11:21 AM']Unless it's the drummer who listens to every thing about 'trying it slower' then speeds back up by the end of the first line because he prefers it that way![/quote]
I've had drummers who say they prefer the faster tempo but I'm suspicous that they only prefer it that way because they can't actually control the tempo at a slower pace.

[wateroftyne]

I've been lucky enough over the years to play very often with a great, incredibly experienced, highly musical drummer who leads from the back when it comes to feel, dynamic and tempo. I've learned so much from him over the years it's unreal.

All the best bands I've been in give everyone free reign, and consist of people who can be trusted to do the right thing for the song, as well as be open to suggestions.

[paul h]

Well it's been many, many years since I have played in a band but I would have to say that the other people in a band influence my bass lines 100%. I mean that in the sense that my bass lines support/drive/follow (whichever is required) whatever else is being played.

However, on the whole, their actual opinions mean very little to me!

[stevebasshead]

I wonder how many bassists who ask this question, or are in a situation where their bandmates are trying to have an influence, are asking it because their bandmates want them to play [i]more[/i] or [i]avoid the root[/i]? I'd be willing to put money (my own, at that!) on it nearly always being where bassist are being asked to play simpler/stick to the root etc. etc. so I'm going to continue this post in that vein...

Now, there's nothing wrong with playing simpler if it's best for the song but what irks me when I've been in these situations is that the other options are rarely explored. The other instruments are never asked to simplify to declutter the mix and let the bassline carry that part of the song, there's an assumption that it should always be the bass that should simplify by default. This to me does not "serve the song", it serves other peoples egos or narrow views of songwriting (i.e. a paint-by-numbers or kit assembly approach).

Simple lines (on any instrument) will always "work" but does that mean they're best for the song? Maybe. Maybe not. Unless other alternatives are explored we'll never know but if everyone explored other options one of two things will happen...either something better will be found or you'll confirm that the simple line really was the best after all. In other words, a good band will recognise that the simpler lines should be kept in their back pockets, they can be pulled out later because they'll always "work" but at least the song will have had the chance to be improved by exploration.

[leschirons]

I don't play with any bands that write their own songs so I guess if we're just doing covers that I should really just learn the correct lines but often don't. Sometimes I feel that I'd like to play songs differently if I feel that the line would improve the song for us or even make it easier for me as I cover most male lead vocals.

Having said that, I'm always appreciative of any constructive criticism and am always prepared to listen to other suggestions. I'm not precious, or Victor Wooten (who I suspect is still open to learning) so what others suggest could potentially, be a far better option to what I've played.

I do get annoyed with band members that are not open to discussion about what they play. IMO, you don't even need to be a musician to figure out if something is not quite suitable. But some I've come across (mainly, no, in fact always drummers)
who think that because they've owned a kit for 20 years, no-one has any right to talk about their playing or sound.

Our guitarist is trying to organise a recording session at his studio for our function band demo but in true form, after speaking to the drummer about how he (the guitarist) would like to record the drums, the old "who does he think he is" reared it's ugly head.

Bloody politics.