1 in 1 Out And An Argument No Doubt!!

[Spoombung]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='707359' date='Jan 10 2010, 07:36 AM']Deserves a mention: Mr [b]Kai Eckhardt[/b]

- Kai is a fantastic player, yet never seems to get the mentions he deserves among the other "greats" of Fusion bass playing like Jonas Hellborg, Stuart Hamm, Jaco, Stanley, etc etc. Kai has quietly worked away on many projects over the years which have come to typically little acclaim between bassists circles, and yet he is an immensely talented player.[/quote]

You're right, he is [i]very[/i] good (in that post-Jaco bracket). Lovely melodic lines. I didn't know about him.

[Pete Academy]

Now that I've calmed down I think I owe it to J3ster as to why the original post incensed me so much. And before you shake your heads and tut, this will (hopefully) be my final word on the subject.

Yeah, I'm passionate about Victor. He's obviously not everyone's cup of tea, as he resides firmly in the world of jazz/fusion (although the Flecktones are pretty hard to categorise). But I genuinely think he's misunderstood. I've heard virtually everything he's done, except for some Flecktone stuff. I've read The Music Lesson and watched his DVD based on it. I've also read a fascinating biography about him. If you dig deeper you'll find he's not just a bass player or musician, but much more as a person.

Going back to the original post:

"I'm not saying he is rubbish that would be stupid but seriously I do not really even consider him a Bass player in the true sense of the word and if anything I think he is more Technique than Talent. He has opened our eyes to different ways of playing (most of which he just brought to the masses but was not doing first) but most of what he does is a nonsensicle mass of self indulgence that if you saw in a pub you would smirk at. Any number of us can flap our hands over the strings and fretboard and recreate our own wooton wood whack but one of the best Bassists in the world.. Whatever"

What is a bass player in the true sense of the word? I would agree that the primary role is supportive, and Victor certainly does that. Listen to The Flecktones. He often plays simple lines and knows exactly when to lay back. In my opinion, the song is everything. A bass player's job is to make the singer and the song sound as good as possible. You will rarely, if ever, hear Victor overplay in a song situation.

More technique than talent? Double thumbing and tapping weren't new, I agree, but VW has added an extraordinary groove which he's absorbed through years of gigging, helped by being amongst a phenomenally talented musical family. Check out the rest of his brothers - they're all virtuosos in their own right.

Of course, he's got his 'party tricks'. What bassist wouldn't show off at times if he or she possessed such a sublime technique? The problem is - and I know I'm repeating myself here - it's those bits that everyone focuses on, especially on YouTube. I'm the first to admit I find the 'thumb battle' with his guitarist brother, and the detuning to the point of the strings flapping about while he's slapping, quite tedious and unmusical. And if this is all you saw, you'd be mightily unimpressed.

It's the same with other players: Flea, of course. But listening to some of his supportive lines on more recent albums proves him (IMO) to be a world class player. Same with Mark King.

I would suggest a look at the first part (before the slap battle) of Live At Bass Day 98. The opening section is brilliant.

And finally, I agree he's never written a 'popular' catchy bassline like 'Peaches' or such like However, if you listen to 'Me and My Bass Guitar' from the 'Show Of Hands' album [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybn1ytS4Y0E"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ybn1ytS4Y0E[/url] and ignore the corrny lyric, you'll hear what sounds like a complex part, but is actually only a few notes. It's the technique he uses that brings the notes to life and creates such a great - and I reckon - catchy groove. That's my opinion, and I know many will still disagree.

So, hope there's no hard feelings.

[Pete Academy]

I can only add underrated to this thread. Walter Becker. Or 'understated', maybe?

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='707443' date='Jan 10 2010, 10:44 AM']I can only add underrated to this thread. Walter Becker. Or 'understated', maybe?[/quote]

His bassline and playing on 'Jack Of Speed' demonstrates this, for me.

[andy67]

are you finished with your last word/s on this thread yet?

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='andy67' post='707802' date='Jan 10 2010, 04:08 PM']are you finished with your last word/s on this thread yet? [/quote]

About VW, yeah.

[witterth]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='707446' date='Jan 10 2010, 10:47 AM']His bassline and playing on 'Jack Of Speed' demonstrates this, for me.[/quote]
who plays on "walk between the rain drops"? cos that's Dahmn good, Pete.
my only REAL copy is on vynil and consequently is in the loft!!
(is it Will Lee?)
Edit:
Sarah5string was right, it was allways going to get nasty was this....... ... no popcorn left?

Edited January 10, 2010 by witterth

[J3ster]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='707808' date='Jan 10 2010, 04:13 PM']About VW, yeah. [/quote]

Well I would like to add something else to my VW comments please..

I always liked the Golf but thought the Scirocco 'overstated'



Now I'm definetly done too... Please erase my memory!!

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='J3ster' post='707816' date='Jan 10 2010, 04:24 PM']Well I would like to add something else to my VW comments please..

I always liked the Golf but thought the Scirocco 'overstated'



Now I'm definetly done too... Please erase my memory!![/quote]

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='witterth' post='707813' date='Jan 10 2010, 04:23 PM']who plays on "walk between the rain drops"? cos that's Dahmn good, Pete.
my only REAL copy is on vynil and consequently is in the loft!!
(is it Will Lee?)
Edit:
Shara5string was right, it was allways going to get nasty was this....... ... no popcorn left?[/quote]

It was Will Lee. I think Bilbo posted a transcription last year.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='witterth' post='707813' date='Jan 10 2010, 04:23 PM']who plays on "walk between the rain drops"? cos that's Dahmn good, Pete.
my only REAL copy is on vynil and consequently is in the loft!!
(is it Will Lee?)
Edit:
Shara5string was right, it was allways going to get nasty was this....... ... no popcorn left?[/quote]
It is indeed Will Lee and he is doubling a synth bass part, which is testament to his brilliance because he is so in the pocket with it. Great playing.

[witterth]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='707834' date='Jan 10 2010, 04:33 PM']It is indeed Will Lee and he is doubling a synth bass part, which is testament to his brilliance because he is so in the pocket with it. Great playing.[/quote]
Thanks Jake!!
"in the pocket" is right!!

[Doddy]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='707834' date='Jan 10 2010, 04:33 PM']It is indeed Will Lee and he is doubling a synth bass part, which is testament to his brilliance because he is so in the pocket with it. Great playing.[/quote]

Greg Phililinganes plays the part on synth as well,so I'm guessing that it was probably a written line.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Doddy' post='707864' date='Jan 10 2010, 05:04 PM']Greg Phililinganes plays the part on synth as well,so I'm guessing that it was probably a written line.[/quote]

It definitely sounds 'written'.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='707393' date='Jan 10 2010, 09:47 AM']Yeah, I'm passionate about Victor. He's obviously not everyone's cup of tea, as he resides firmly in the world of jazz/fusion (although the Flecktones are pretty hard to categorise). But I genuinely think he's misunderstood.[/quote]

Yes, Victor is hugely misunderstood, which is perhaps the greatest shame. Because he is not just the flash and the tricks everyone sees, he is IMO the most talented bassist around not just in terms of technique but in terms of musicality and personality. The guy can play anything he turns his hand to and when he does, you will always know it is Victor. He is also very humble, and always talks up other players and how they are better than him in some way, when even their most ardent fan would be hard pressed to argue Victor's point.

Not only that, but he an groove harder than anyone. He has so much funk in him. Even the old skool groovers like Jamerson, Jackson, Graham etc etc...none of them can groove like Wooten can! Wooten is not my favourite bassist, despite the fact I really dig his stuff. But whether I liked his music or not, I couldn't argue that he wasn't a f****** fantastic musician who is light years ahead of pretty much everyone else these days except the fusion elite!

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='708479' date='Jan 11 2010, 08:05 AM']Yes, Victor is hugely misunderstood, which is perhaps the greatest shame. Because he is not just the flash and the tricks everyone sees, he is IMO the most talented bassist around not just in terms of technique but in terms of musicality and personality. The guy can play anything he turns his hand to and when he does, you will always know it is Victor. He is also very humble, and always talks up other players and how they are better than him in some way, when even their most ardent fan would be hard pressed to argue Victor's point.

Not only that, but he an groove harder than anyone. He has so much funk in him. Even the old skool groovers like Jamerson, Jackson, Graham etc etc...none of them can groove like Wooten can! Wooten is not my favourite bassist, despite the fact I really dig his stuff. But whether I liked his music or not, I couldn't argue that he wasn't a f****** fantastic musician who is light years ahead of pretty much everyone else these days except the fusion elite![/quote]

Damn, you got me started again! Yep, I think that sums him up...misunderstood. But I suppose we're all guilty of that in most respects.