PA advice

[EssentialTension]

The singer's PA mixer amp has given up the ghost so we're looking for a replacement for pubs and other small venues.

Line up has been drums (small kit, often brushes, not usually miked), bass through backline, acoustic guitar/mandolin/ukulele through backline, acoustic guitar through PA, four vocal mikes (one of those doubling for harmonica).

We have two Peavey 300 watt 8 ohms main speakers and two Carlsboro 100 watt 8 ohms monitors and maximum of £700 to spend - although ideally we have other plans for £250 of that.

What can anyone suggest as a sensible way forward?

[john_the_bass]

If you want to continue using your existing speakers and monitors, you could go for an amp and a small desk - probably cost you less than £400, especially if you went down the Behringer route. You could spend the lot on a pair of Mackie powered speakers and something like a little Peavey PV10 desk, but you woud need an amp to run your monitors (unless they are powered).

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='706771' date='Jan 9 2010, 05:21 PM']If you want to continue using your existing speakers and monitors, you could go for an amp and a small desk - probably cost you less than £400, especially if you went down the Behringer route. You could spend the lot on a pair of Mackie powered speakers and something like a little Peavey PV10 desk, but you woud need an amp to run your monitors (unless they are powered).[/quote]
Thanks John. This is the kind of possibilites I want to hear. The monitors are unpowered. Perhaps wrongly, I'm slightly dubious about the Behringer route.

Let's hear some more please.

[john_the_bass]

I've used a Behringer bass amp and it was shocking. I've used several Behringer mixers and they've actually been pretty good. My dad's had a couple and only went onto his second because he managed to fry two channels. He thought it was a fault with the desk before he realised it was something he'd done himself!

[Happy Jack]

How many channels do you actually need, Dave?

Your list of uses seems to suggest that an 8-channel desk (plus a power amp) will do you, but is that right?

What about bells'n'whistles? Do you need or use multiple FX and/or compression, etc.?

[Tinman]

There's nothing much wrong with the Behringer PA kit, used it for ages, until our singer decided to connect it up wrong and fry a power amp.
It would be perfect for what you're after and reasonably priced too.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Happy Jack' post='706796' date='Jan 9 2010, 05:39 PM']How many channels do you actually need, Dave?

Your list of uses seems to suggest that an 8-channel desk (plus a power amp) will do you, but is that right?

What about bells'n'whistles? Do you need or use multiple FX and/or compression, etc.?[/quote]
On FX/compression we've been using reverb but not anything else, I think. (I feel this is not my field really but the others are even less competent than me.) However I guess a mixer/amp with some multi FX/compression would be useful.

Eight channels ought to suffice even if (as we hope to) we add another instrument but I always like to see some headroom in these things if possible. We are not a loud band so the PA is not going to be miking/DIing the backline at all.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Tinman' post='706825' date='Jan 9 2010, 05:56 PM']There's nothing much wrong with the Behringer PA kit, used it for ages, until our singer decided to connect it up wrong and fry a power amp.
It would be perfect for what you're after and reasonably priced too.[/quote]
OK, thanks. I will look at them.

[warwickhunt]

Plenty cheap power amps and desks available. I'd suggest getting an amp that would appear to be a lot larger (powerful) than your present needs suggest. Some of the Yamaha desks with built in effects and one knob compression are pretty damn good. We've recently gone the route of powered speakers which aren't cheap (and you'd need to budget for a desk as well) but it has been worth it in terms of sound quality... assuming we are excluding the sub that we recently picked up.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='706843' date='Jan 9 2010, 06:09 PM']Plenty cheap power amps and desks available. I'd suggest getting an amp that would appear to be a lot larger (powerful) than your present needs suggest. Some of the Yamaha desks with built in effects and one knob compression are pretty damn good. We've recently gone the route of powered speakers which aren't cheap (and you'd need to budget for a desk as well) but it has been worth it in terms of sound quality... assuming we are excluding the sub that we recently picked up. [/quote]
I did have a look at the Yamaha desks.

[Blind Lemon]

I would suggest a pair of powered pa cabs, wharfedale evp x12 or similar (http://www.reverb-store.co.uk/product-detail.asp?prod=1106) around £400, a lowend mixer ( [url="http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/8540-behringer-xenyx-1202fx.html/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base"]http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/8540...m_campaign=base[/url] ) 12 input with built in effects about £100. sell on your peavey cabs to fund a small power amp to run your existing monitors.
this will enable you to upgrade your pa by adding powerd bass bins etc as gigs and venues get bigger, and when funds allow invest in a quality desk. The beheringer mixers have always been ok in my experience.....but think of it as disposable.
when choosing pa I learnt that in 12 months time it aint gonna be loud enough!!!
Thats the route I would go if that helps. Gear linked to is just as an example.

Richard

[jim_bass]

Theres was a behringer xenyx mixer for sale in the other musically related stuff section on here. We use a very similar desk and it does the job nicely.

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='Blind Lemon' post='707118' date='Jan 9 2010, 09:30 PM']I would suggest a pair of powered pa cabs, wharfedale evp x12 or similar (http://www.reverb-store.co.uk/product-detail.asp?prod=1106) around £400,[/quote]
Before you look at buying something like the EXP X12s new, look at secondhand stuff.
If you don't mind buying secondhand, there are 3 different sets of Mackie SRMs on the soundonsound.com classified ads ranging from SRM350 V2s at £425 up to a pair of SRM450 from the RCF days at £675.

[Blind Lemon]

Fully agree with john source second hand if you can the benefit of new is a warranty and you can have it now, boyels law states " gear will allways go down when you need it most" ! RCF gear is A1 by the way, we have recently purchased a 6k RCF rig HK is another good name to look out for but you will defo be in the second hand market to stay within your budget.

[john_the_bass]

I did look at HK stuff, in the same price range as the RCF kit we were looking at, it didn't impress like the RCF stuff did. If we were prepared to double our budget on the other hand, some of the HK kit was ace, but at a price.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='709576' date='Jan 11 2010, 11:13 PM']I did look at HK stuff, in the same price range as the RCF kit we were looking at, it didn't impress like the RCF stuff did. If we were prepared to double our budget on the other hand, some of the HK kit was ace, but at a price.[/quote]

We had the same dilemma/views. Ended up getting nearly new RCF powered tops and a single RCF bin; unfortunately, out of the OP budget!

[PaulWarning]

we use a 1000 watt Yamaha EMX512SC mixer amp depending on venue it can be used with 2 speakers, 2 bass bins or 2 monitors (8 ohm) loud enough for pub gigs etc

Edited January 12, 2010 by PaulWarning

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='709679' date='Jan 12 2010, 07:19 AM']We had the same dilemma/views. Ended up getting nearly new RCF powered tops and a single RCF bin; unfortunately, out of the OP budget! [/quote]
Which sub did you go for in the end. I want an ART905S but I don't have the required £1000 to buy one.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='710223' date='Jan 12 2010, 04:52 PM']Which sub did you go for in the end. I want an ART905S but I don't have the required £1000 to buy one.[/quote]

We bought a pair of RCF 522s and a single RFC 705as. We had the opportunity of a pair of bins but tbh it would be overkill for pub gigs!

[martinbass7750]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='709679' date='Jan 12 2010, 07:19 AM']We had the same dilemma/views. Ended up getting nearly new RCF powered tops and a single RCF bin; unfortunately, out of the OP budget! [/quote]


+1

Best pa decision we made was to buy a pair of active RCF Art 310A's. 350 watts rms per side. Superb sound. About £800 new including covers, not much cheaper used on ebay.

I driver those with either a mackie desk or an allen and heath desk depending on space at the venue.

Also now have a pair of 400 watt warfdale bass bins - not as good as rcf, but do the job ok and only about £300 each.

Out of your budget, but well worth considering.

We used to use a pair of mackie srm 450 active cabs - they were fine, but much heavier than the RCF.

Cheers

Martin

[karlthebassist]

With peavey hysis 1 speakers my pub covers band uses a peavey cs1400 power amp @ about £350, and i have a soundcraft efx8, 8 channel desk (with 8 propper xlr inputs, not 4 xlr and 4 line like you normally get at that price) and has built in lexicon effects which are AWESOME. cost about £230...

as for behringer... generally from what ive seen you get what you pay for. however, theyre desks are actually pretty damn good. they actually got taken to court over they mx8000 (i think) desk which was pretty much a copy of a rather tasty mackie desk! a lot of their desk designs are "borrowed" from other companies and are pretty good. but still, the soundcraft is lovely...

[EssentialTension]

Thanks to all of you for your tips.

I don't know what we are going to do - I don't like this buying gear by committee.

[EssentialTension]

Well, thanks to all those who gave tips and just to bring this up to date, we eventually bought a Peavey XR8600 (at a very good price from Mark in the bass department at GAK). It has sailed through its first four gigs brilliantly.