svt cl/vr, ad200b, trace elliot v4/6/8 or mesa what would you go for?

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='0175westwood29' post='718482' date='Jan 19 2010, 09:54 PM']right dnt mean to sound thick but what should it have? i know what tubes look like but thats it? anything to listen for while im playing?
well as far as cabs go im gonna stick with my 610 hlf, i really like it! i know some people disagree but we'll see im also looking at getting a set of mesa ph210's to use on the smaller gigs we do.
basically on the power draw thing what do you plug into? ie do you have to be in your own plug of have you plugged into the same supply in small gigs with the guitarists? (did that make sense?)
might have to get a massive rig on the go if it works really well at 2 ohms?! :-)
andy[/quote]
For all the details look [url="http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Out_of%20_Production/Bass_400_/bass_400_.html"]HERE[/url] at the Mesa website.
Off that page - 12 x Power amp valves and 4 x Pre amp valves!
As for what to listen for - Once it's connected to a speaker cabinet and powered up it should be quiet when you're not playing/no instrument connected. If there's crackling, whistling or any weird noises then it probably needs new valves in there somewhere.
At gigs I always have the amp on it's own socket, just to be sure all will be well.
As for your massive rig idea - it will do 2 Ohms all day & night, as it has the dedicated outputs for it!

Jon

[0175westwood29]

[quote name='jonthebass' post='718515' date='Jan 19 2010, 10:36 PM']For all the details look [url="http://www.mesaboogie.com/Product_Info/Out_of%20_Production/Bass_400_/bass_400_.html"]HERE[/url] at the Mesa website.
Off that page - 12 x Power amp valves and 4 x Pre amp valves!
As for what to listen for - Once it's connected to a speaker cabinet and powered up it should be quiet when you're not playing/no instrument connected. If there's crackling, whistling or any weird noises then it probably needs new valves in there somewhere.
At gigs I always have the amp on it's own socket, just to be sure all will be well.
As for your massive rig idea - it will do 2 Ohms all day & night, as it has the dedicated outputs for it!

Jon[/quote]

thanks man

ill keep an eye out, ill ask some questions about the power thing when im at the shop.

from what you guys have described it seems like it will be just what i need!

andy

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='0175westwood29' post='718482' date='Jan 19 2010, 09:54 PM']well as far as cabs go im gonna stick with my 610 hlf, i really like it![/quote]

What impedance is the 6x10? Had dubious feelings with the 6x12s nominal 6 ohm, that is actually 5.3.

[0175westwood29]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='718525' date='Jan 19 2010, 10:51 PM']What impedance is the 6x10? Had dubious feelings with the 6x12s nominal 6 ohm, that is actually 5.3.[/quote]

4 ohms

andy

Edited January 19, 2010 by 0175westwood29

[tonyxtiger]

thought I'd chip in as I've had all of these...

That sounds like I'm showing off but I'm trying to help honest.

I still have an Orange AD200. Great amp, great tone breaks up far nicer than the ampeg and can go really dirty. Good volume for a 200 watt as long as you go for the KT88 version. Fat old school but very tight and growly.

Not old school flubby indistict like an ampeg VB4 100w head or the Newer ampeg CLs. Drive the Ampegs and they fall to pieces tonally. Kills me to say it but avoid the ampegs. The mids are great but everything else is poor. The big Aguilar head (the 750) is the best ampeg replacement. Daft given it has a s/s power amp but try one. I still have mine and its fantastic. As you can imagine I am very much a believer in valves but after I started using the aguilar I shut up pretty quick. Humble pie all round. Believe the hype on these amps.

The Trace V8 was very loud and very clean, tons of power, again KT88s. Good rock amp if you want the power and keeping it clean. Basically Ashdown make a new version of that head now as the BFA
If you want a rock amp that sounds a bit more hairy, go Orange / Boogie.

Again the Hiwatt head I really convinced myself I was going to like and it was the worst of the bunch. No bottom end whatsoever. It must have been a bad 'un because I can't believe they would make a bass amp that sounds so thin.

The mesa 400+ I still have. Its a killer. Clean and powerful with headroom and fantastic for rock. works well when you drive it or use overdrive pedals. It will easily compete with two guitars and a kit. Used this for 10 years in loud bands and was always heard. Best amp period for staying in the mix at rehearsals. Great definition and punch and gives you a lot of confidence. Don't think I've ever needed to have the master set past 6. Pair it with an 8x10 or a 4x12 and it's all you need.

Any amp can overdrive but Grit, growl,drive, distortion whatever you want to call it - its pointless on the bass if the amp can't hold it together so your still driving things along with the bottom end intact. my two all valve winners are the orange and Mesa. Engineers love them, band mates smile when you play them. Safe with both but Mesa is the better choice for competing with the volume of 2 stacks.

I'm selling a few basses at the moment and I'm considering selling my 400+ along with a 4 x 10 and 2 x 10 boogie cabs. The older 90's ones with the EV drivers, again, rock classics. I don't play as full on these days so I don't really need a rig like this now. let me know if you are interested or have any questions.

hope this helps?

[0175westwood29]

[quote name='tonyxtiger' post='718589' date='Jan 19 2010, 11:52 PM']thought I'd chip in as I've had all of these...

That sounds like I'm showing off but I'm trying to help honest.

I still have an Orange AD200. Great amp, great tone breaks up far nicer than the ampeg and can go really dirty. Good volume for a 200 watt as long as you go for the KT88 version. Fat old school but very tight and growly.

Not old school flubby indistict like an ampeg VB4 100w head or the Newer ampeg CLs. Drive the Ampegs and they fall to pieces tonally. Kills me to say it but avoid the ampegs. The mids are great but everything else is poor. The big Aguilar head (the 750) is the best ampeg replacement. Daft given it has a s/s power amp but try one. I still have mine and its fantastic. As you can imagine I am very much a believer in valves but after I started using the aguilar I shut up pretty quick. Humble pie all round. Believe the hype on these amps.

The Trace V8 was very loud and very clean, tons of power, again KT88s. Good rock amp if you want the power and keeping it clean. Basically Ashdown make a new version of that head now as the BFA
If you want a rock amp that sounds a bit more hairy, go Orange / Boogie.

Again the Hiwatt head I really convinced myself I was going to like and it was the worst of the bunch. No bottom end whatsoever. It must have been a bad 'un because I can't believe they would make a bass amp that sounds so thin.

The mesa 400+ I still have. Its a killer. Clean and powerful with headroom and fantastic for rock. works well when you drive it or use overdrive pedals. It will easily compete with two guitars and a kit. Used this for 10 years in loud bands and was always heard. Best amp period for staying in the mix at rehearsals. Great definition and punch and gives you a lot of confidence. Don't think I've ever needed to have the master set past 6. Pair it with an 8x10 or a 4x12 and it's all you need.

Any amp can overdrive but Grit, growl,drive, distortion whatever you want to call it - its pointless on the bass if the amp can't hold it together so your still driving things along with the bottom end intact. my two all valve winners are the orange and Mesa. Engineers love them, band mates smile when you play them. Safe with both but Mesa is the better choice for competing with the volume of 2 stacks.

I'm selling a few basses at the moment and I'm considering selling my 400+ along with a 4 x 10 and 2 x 10 boogie cabs. The older 90's ones with the EV drivers, again, rock classics. I don't play as full on these days so I don't really need a rig like this now. let me know if you are interested or have any questions.

hope this helps?[/quote]

Thanks man that was really an in depth review! Cheers!

Oh and pm sent bout the mesa

Andy

[umph]

out of those personally i'd go for the v6 followed by the mesa 400+. If i could choose anything though i'd go to matamp if i was spending that money.

[chris_b]

[quote name='0175westwood29' post='718450' date='Jan 19 2010, 09:32 PM']....the only thing that worries me is the secondhand part and cost of repairs if it goes wrong but i guess theres that with all amps! just like the idea of being covered with a warranty. all you 400+ guys had any problems?....[/quote]
I had a brand new 400+ which blew a valve and the fuses as soon as we powered it up in the shop! It didn't get much better and over the next 18 months, blew valves and fuses at regular intervals and occasionally other internal bits.

All were replaced under warranty (for the whole 18 months, thank you Nick and Grant at the Bass Centre) so I've got no idea how much the repair bill would have been, except that I know I couldn't have afforded it! When the amp was working it sounded just great and pinned people to the back wall. I know 400+ amps don't do this often but I was glad when Nick finally said they'd take it back.

No more valves for me!

[Guest johnzgerman]

[quote name='chris_b' post='718631' date='Jan 20 2010, 12:35 AM']I had a brand new 400+ which blew a valve and the fuses as soon as we powered it up in the shop! It didn't get much better and over the next 18 months, blew valves and fuses at regular intervals and occasionally other internal bits.

All were replaced under warranty (for the whole 18 months, thank you Nick and Grant at the Bass Centre) so I've got no idea how much the repair bill would have been, except that I know I couldn't have afforded it! When the amp was working it sounded just great and pinned people to the back wall. I know 400+ amps don't do this often but I was glad when Nick finally said they'd take it back.

No more valves for me![/quote]

a hire company i work for sometimes, had similar problems with their mesa 400+. it sounds ace and is really loud but its the most unreliable piece of sh*t known to man. and the graphic eq looks and feels like its been stuck on with blu tack.

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='johnzgerman' post='718653' date='Jan 20 2010, 01:29 AM']a hire company i work for sometimes, had similar problems with their mesa 400+. it sounds ace and is really loud but its the most unreliable piece of sh*t known to man. and the graphic eq looks and feels like its been stuck on with blu tack.[/quote]
Bet it's the same bloody amp!

[tayste_2000]

Well I feel I can chime in here as I a 400+ and 2 Strategy 400's which are essentially Stereo Tube Power amps with the same power section as the 400+

Now over 3+ years I have had a sum total of 1 problem across all 3 amps, where the 400+ started blowing fuses, it was fixed within 2 days at a cost of £100 never really found out what was wrong with it mainly just wear and tear on an amp made in 1982 (All my Mesa are 80's) and that is the same for the 3 BC'ers who owned it before me never had a problem.

In terms of retubing I just paid £425 for my tech to put 24 brand new Groove Tube 6l6's in them, which isn't too bad at all and if you want some 6l6's that are functional and to be honest sound fine then I have 24 that I can do cheap if you want some backups

I've not retubed my 400+ since I got it and from what I understand now it's last retube was 5 years ago and they are still going strong however I did change my preamp tube from a 12AX7 to a 12AU7 maybe even a 12AT7 but that's just because mine is a particularly gainy amp.

I also had my 400+ put into a Matamp headcase to match my cabs and it looks awesome.

All this aside if I had like 1300 burning a hole in my pocket I'd also buy a Matamp GT200 over everything listen in the thread, I think the Mesa is the loudest tube amp I've come across but the Matamp sounds the best and they only cost like £120 to fully retube.

Hope this helps

[Noisyjon]

[quote name='tayste_2000' post='718759' date='Jan 20 2010, 09:43 AM']...All this aside if I had like 1300 burning a hole in my pocket I'd also buy a Matamp GT200 over everything listen in the thread, I think the Mesa is the loudest tube amp I've come across but the Matamp sounds the best and they only cost like £120 to fully retube...[/quote]

Tayste, you're not helping my MAtamp GAS

[tayste_2000]

Good

[tonyxtiger]

I might have to look into the matamp then. seems one slipped thru the net...

on the subject of reliability the mesa has been faultless. The orange has similarly been good but it is technically the third. When I bought it the first one blew up and it was replaced. the replacement blew up and I was given a third. I can only hope it was a bad batch as the third has been fine. I'm glad I stuck with it.

Both of these have been gigged and I've had no problems except blown fuses due to sharing with idiots who can't grasp the concept of power on first, wait, then standby. Then the reverse to switch off. Usually its just both on at the same time, both off at the same time and then they start giving you a confused look like your amp is a piece of sh*t even though they don't even have one.

This has got me thinking was there ever a thread started on the subject of "How can you turn up at a venue to play a gig and not have any gear?"
Is it just me or does every gig involve a gumby asking you "who's the bass player? can I use your gear mate? I haven't got an amp?" or my personal favourite, not even asking but just wandering up after your soundcheck and just plugging in like its their own.
Do they offer to bung you a few quid or are they around at the end of the nite to help you load the van? are they f***!
what do these guys do at rehersal, hum the bassline thru a microphone? I'm all for the punk ethic but I just couldn't sleep at night being that much of a tw*t.

anyway, that's off my chest now. back to topic...

look after your valve amp and it will look after you. when you get fed up carting the weight around buy the aguilar 750. Its a heavy amp too but not valve heavy. Any solid state power amps I used were always terrible for me in that you just got lost in the room. SWR - lovely hifi tone when you play it, the band kicks in and its lost. Ampeg pre with a solid state power amp - same thing. Nothing held up like a valve power section until I got the aguilar.
I was old school for years, has to be valves and has to be big solid heavy cabs for bass.

unfortunately technology has caught up.

[umph]

[quote name='tonyxtiger' post='718861' date='Jan 20 2010, 12:04 PM']I might have to look into the matamp then. seems one slipped thru the net...

on the subject of reliability the mesa has been faultless. The orange has similarly been good but it is technically the third. When I bought it the first one blew up and it was replaced. the replacement blew up and I was given a third. I can only hope it was a bad batch as the third has been fine. I'm glad I stuck with it.

Both of these have been gigged and I've had no problems except blown fuses due to sharing with idiots who can't grasp the concept of power on first, wait, then standby. Then the reverse to switch off. Usually its just both on at the same time, both off at the same time and then they start giving you a confused look like your amp is a piece of sh*t even though they don't even have one.

This has got me thinking was there ever a thread started on the subject of "How can you turn up at a venue to play a gig and not have any gear?"
Is it just me or does every gig involve a gumby asking you "who's the bass player? can I use your gear mate? I haven't got an amp?" or my personal favourite, not even asking but just wandering up after your soundcheck and just plugging in like its their own.
Do they offer to bung you a few quid or are they around at the end of the nite to help you load the van? are they f***!
what do these guys do at rehersal, hum the bassline thru a microphone? I'm all for the punk ethic but I just couldn't sleep at night being that much of a tw*t.

anyway, that's off my chest now. back to topic...

look after your valve amp and it will look after you. when you get fed up carting the weight around buy the aguilar 750. Its a heavy amp too but not valve heavy. Any solid state power amps I used were always terrible for me in that you just got lost in the room. SWR - lovely hifi tone when you play it, the band kicks in and its lost. Ampeg pre with a solid state power amp - same thing. Nothing held up like a valve power section until I got the aguilar.
I was old school for years, has to be valves and has to be big solid heavy cabs for bass.

unfortunately technology has caught up.[/quote]
no problem with just wacking valves amps on, as long as you wait a minute before trying to blast signal through it.

+1 on the mesa though i just picked one up thats in a bit of disrepair to say the least and everything was fine with it, good quality components fairly decent wiring - one of the better production amps, much nicer to look at inside than a ampeg svt and a new orange. Also with the fan full wack the power valves barely get warm which should contribute to them lasting quite a long time!

Edited January 20, 2010 by umph

[0175westwood29]

[quote name='chris_b' post='718631' date='Jan 20 2010, 12:35 AM']I had a brand new 400+ which blew a valve and the fuses as soon as we powered it up in the shop! It didn't get much better and over the next 18 months, blew valves and fuses at regular intervals and occasionally other internal bits.

All were replaced under warranty (for the whole 18 months, thank you Nick and Grant at the Bass Centre) so I've got no idea how much the repair bill would have been, except that I know I couldn't have afforded it! When the amp was working it sounded just great and pinned people to the back wall. I know 400+ amps don't do this often but I was glad when Nick finally said they'd take it back.

No more valves for me![/quote]

what other bits was it that went?

from what i can see is there seems to have been an example with every amp about it crapping out? i guess the only thing i could do would be to keep what ever i choose well serviced and use it carefully!

my orange ad140 never had any problems.

well im going up on sat to have a whirl!

also on the matamp front i dnt think they look nice! they might sound nice but need it to look good sorry!

andy

[Andy Blowers]

Marshall VBA400 anyone?

[attackbass]

[quote name='alexisonfire' post='716068' date='Jan 17 2010, 10:07 PM']Just to add the the CL vs AD200B,

I had the same decision, and as you can see from my sig the Orange won.

Oh and if you play heavy metal, Norma Jean, Cancer Bats and Converge to name a couple, use the AD200B[/quote]


I have the complete Orange rig, and in my opinion it owns the ampeg. The eq isn't the most versatile especially with the mids but sounds great none the less! It's also nothing a graphic eq pedal can't solve if you need for sculpting of your tone.

Just thought i'd mention that Cancer Bats do you the orange head over here in the UK but Jay runs his own preamp before it.. think it was called a morris?... which is pretty much accounts for his full on distorted tone and keeps the orange head relatively clean.

[basshead56]

Ampeg SVT CL or VR if I had to pick.
And of the two, I would swing slightly more toward the VR-just seems that little bit grizzlier and ballsy (think the lack of an input gain control has something to do with it)
Had a Mesa 400+ and liked it a lot but I just couldn't get the most of it.


[quote name='Andy Blowers' post='720659' date='Jan 21 2010, 11:17 PM']Marshall VBA400 anyone?[/quote]

+1
Got one a few months ago and love it!
Weighs a bloody ton, but well worth the aches!
Bone rattlin!!!
Use it with a VBC 4x12. Just wish i had a second VBC 4x12 cab!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='attackbass' post='720698' date='Jan 22 2010, 12:22 AM']I have the complete Orange rig, and in my opinion it owns the ampeg. The eq isn't the most versatile especially with the mids but sounds great none the less! It's also nothing a graphic eq pedal can't solve if you need for sculpting of your tone.

Just thought i'd mention that Cancer Bats do you the orange head over here in the UK but Jay runs his own preamp before it.. think it was called a morris?... which is pretty much accounts for his full on distorted tone and keeps the orange head relatively clean.[/quote]

+1....good choice

Yep, even Cancer Bats have come away from Ampeg and gone Orange.

[mildmanofrock]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Fq0NRfeKs"]Here's one reason [/url]why it's Ampeg for me.

[Kiwi]

As the owner of a V8, I voted Mesa. Much more sophisticated eq and sounds every bit as good. I loved mine even if it killed me to lift it. The eq on the Trace V8 lets it down a little if you team it up with a harsh sounding bass. Never liked Ampeg SVT's just couldn't get a clean and honest sound out of them. Never played an Orange so can't comment on those.

Tip on buying used Mesa 400+, as well as checking when the valves were last replaced, also check the condition of the transformers. If they show signs of significant rust then walk away. Mesa didn't coat their transformers and any corrosion weakens them by bridging the gaps between plates.

[0175westwood29]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='720762' date='Jan 22 2010, 07:49 AM']As the owner of a V8, I voted Mesa. Much more sophisticated eq and sounds every bit as good. I loved mine even if it killed me to lift it. The eq on the Trace V8 lets it down a little if you team it up with a harsh sounding bass. Never liked Ampeg SVT's just couldn't get a clean and honest sound out of them. Never played an Orange so can't comment on those.

Tip on buying used Mesa 400+, as well as checking when the valves were last replaced, also check the condition of the transformers. If they show signs of significant rust then walk away. Mesa didn't coat their transformers and any corrosion weakens them by bridging the gaps between plates.[/quote]


Ok so I'm getting an idea of what I need to look at in the mesa, I think I need to try out a 200b as all my feelings on oranges came from my old amp! Which was lovely but broke up way to early!

Ill try the peg cl that they have to see how it sounds, im gonna try them all thru peg cabniet as that's what ill be using for the moment, I'm looking into getting a couple of mesa ph 210's for a small rig when we dnt have much room.

Hopefully by tomoz night ill know more bout each head, and if I like the mesa and it looks k and in good heatlh I think ill go for it but we'll see

Andy

[alexisonfire]

[quote name='attackbass' post='720698' date='Jan 22 2010, 12:22 AM']I have the complete Orange rig, and in my opinion it owns the ampeg. The eq isn't the most versatile especially with the mids but sounds great none the less! It's also nothing a graphic eq pedal can't solve if you need for sculpting of your tone.

Just thought i'd mention that Cancer Bats do you the orange head over here in the UK but Jay runs his own preamp before it.. think it was called a morris?... which is pretty much accounts for his full on distorted tone and keeps the orange head relatively clean.[/quote]


Morr-Bat pedal, Morris amps, they'll make you a similar one for £200.

[andy67]

V4 every day of the week!

I have not heard another valve amp equal mine for volume! tis a bloody rogue! 220w in your face and it aint gonna stop! no frills rock amp. anyone up this end is welcome to ab against any of the other girly woosie amps being discussed!!!

andy